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Bus-Conductor

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Oct 19, 2004
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Who appoints the coaches and manager is what I want to know. Boothroyd is the strangest appointment ever.

Dan Ashworth (FA Director of Elite Development). He was Boothroyd's youth team assistant manager at West Brom many years ago and Boothroyd was the best man at his wedding I believe.

You could fucking make it up really. Jobs for the boys, not jobs that are best for England's boys...
 

DEFchenkOE

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Feb 13, 2006
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Spain cruising against a decent Portugal team which has euro 2016 winner Renato Sanches in it.
 

IGSpur

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Jan 11, 2013
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Dan Ashworth (FA Director of Elite Development). He was Boothroyd's youth team assistant manager at West Brom many years ago and Boothroyd was the best man at his wedding I believe.

You could fucking make it up really. Jobs for the boys, not jobs that are best for England's boys...

Dan Micciche who coaches the u16s has them playing the right way. Would like to see progressive coaches given a chance. A lot of the u21s play is punting it to the corner flags like Leicester last year.

u21s actually have a good team but playing poor stuff
 

BPR_U16

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Jun 28, 2006
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If Everton do get Sandro at the £5.2m release clause that will be a good bit of business
 

Bus-Conductor

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I don't understand why against France, Southgate didn't call up Cook and Onomah and either start them or give the second half. It would have been great reward for them winning the World Cup, it would have been better than watching Dier and OxCh plod around like a turtles in a fucking windsock, and it might have helped with England's complete lack of proper CM's in the senior squad.
 

Marty

Audere est farce
Mar 10, 2005
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Dan Micciche who coaches the u16s has them playing the right way. Would like to see progressive coaches given a chance. A lot of the u21s play is punting it to the corner flags like Leicester last year.

u21s actually have a good team but playing poor stuff
From what I watched of the U20 WC Paul Simpson has some good ideas as well. As you say, those coaches need to be given a chance.
 

Bus-Conductor

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Oct 19, 2004
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From what I watched of the U20 WC Paul Simpson has some good ideas as well. As you say, those coaches need to be given a chance.

What good ideas? Genuine question, because I honestly wasn't blown away by anything from a coached or tactical perspective by Simpson.
 

Marty

Audere est farce
Mar 10, 2005
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What good ideas? Genuine question, because I honestly wasn't blown away by anything from a coached or tactical perspective by Simpson.
Having a style - any style - of football different to Aidy Boothroyd is a good start.

I didn't watch any games before the semi final so I really can't comment too deeply on this. But they looked like they wanted to actually pass the ball, so that's something.
 

spursfan77

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Aug 13, 2005
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I don't understand why against France, Southgate didn't call up Cook and Onomah and either start them or give the second half. It would have been great reward for them winning the World Cup, it would have been better than watching Dier and OxCh plod around like a turtles in a fucking windsock, and it might have helped with England's complete lack of proper CM's in the senior squad.

It's England. No chance of that happening.

Not England but I remember Massimo Maccarone playing for Italy under 21s against England and scoring and then was playing for the full side 2 days later. Not the best example of a player given his career though obviously!
 

spursfan77

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Aug 13, 2005
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From what I watched of the U20 WC Paul Simpson has some good ideas as well. As you say, those coaches need to be given a chance.

We only did well at the under 20 because no teams really pulled their players out. Before previous under 20 World cups all the clubs pulled their players out. Had they not wed of done well in those too.
 

beats1

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Feb 22, 2010
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We only did well at the under 20 because no teams really pulled their players out. Before previous under 20 World cups all the clubs pulled their players out. Had they not wed of done well in those too.
We had a lot of players missing in this U20 world cup more so than previous world cups

The level of competition though wasnt as high as previous world cups imo
 

Bus-Conductor

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Oct 19, 2004
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Having a style - any style - of football different to Aidy Boothroyd is a good start.

I didn't watch any games before the semi final so I really can't comment too deeply on this. But they looked like they wanted to actually pass the ball, so that's something.

I watched all the games and to be honest there wasn't much evidence of a clear ethos. In the first game they were thoroughly outplayed by Argentina and skanked a win very much against the run of play.

They played OK against Guinea but in fits and starts, no real ethos or rhythm, and though it wouldn't have been against the balance of play if England won it, Guinea had their chances too. A draw was probably fair.

I thought the Korea game was the best of the group in as much as England played Onomah and Ejaria together in CM and I thought they looked more composed and assured in midfield, England deserved to win but it was another game that saw England kind of shelling it toward the end if I remember correctly.

I'm struggling to remember Costa Rica game (maybe others could help me out @IGSpur ?).

The Mexico game I think England were pretty fortunate, didn't play well with the ball at all, the forwards were largely disconnected from the game and there was no control of the ball or barely stringing sets of passes together.

The Italy game (which you saw) England did have loads of the ball and played well, but it's really hard to tell how much of that was because Italy got an early goal and tried to shell it (which is very Italian and they did the same with success against the U20's previously). I think quite alot. And what happened was once England scored, Italy had spent so long bus parking they couldn't get back into gear and England did kill them off in good fashion.

The first half of the final was probably the best 45 minutes England played in these finals IMO. I think that was almost entirely because Simpson did make the only smart tactical change that he made all tournament and that was to swap Cook and Onomah round and have Onomah sitting deeper of the two and Onomah's more intelligent and composed approach meant England could now play out from the back and through midfield, which they did more of. But even in this game the second half degenerated into a bit of mess and in the end England had a penalty save to thank for hanging onto their one goal lead.

Overall the impression I got was that this is a very good group of players individually from back to front, but there was no real over arching ethos that carried them through. No clear tactical ethos, no fixed coached ethos to do good practices like retaining the ball under a press, playing out from the back regardless, retaining the ball when trying to hold a lead, there was often a disconnect between the attacking players and the midfield and the midfield and defence.

I like a lot of these players, I even like some of the forwards who were erratic and wasteful and spent too much time with their heads down trying to go solo instead of just showing a bit of composure, getting a head up and helping the move to progress by doing something simple - I think Solanke and Lookman are really talented they just need what French and German kids get, game time to hone things like composure and game intelligence. But what they all need at this level is to be coached and tactically educated so that when they advance through the international level England eventually end up with players who can play cohesive football, not like a bunch of decent individuals thrown together which is what every England senior team looks like (and that's at best, often they look like a bunch of shit individuals with no tactical clue)
 

Gb160

Well done boys. Good process
Jun 20, 2012
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Who appoints the coaches and manager is what I want to know. Boothroyd is the strangest appointment ever.
The problem is throughout the system though, we're producing some very good footballers but no decent managers.
We've got Gareth bloody Southgate as the senior manager, so its no surprise theres no one of any quality at the U21s.
 

Bus-Conductor

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Oct 19, 2004
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It's England. No chance of that happening.

Not England but I remember Massimo Maccarone playing for Italy under 21s against England and scoring and then was playing for the full side 2 days later. Not the best example of a player given his career though obviously!

I know some people would scoff at this idea, but it was a friendly FFS, England have an absolute crisis in CM, and Cook and Onomah had just come off the back of winning an international World Cup and are proper CM's, they would be much sharper, more focused better tactically than the ambling Dier and OxCh who aren't really CM's and were woeful.

It's a bit rich the FA and Southgate moaning about PL managers not being prepared to play these kids if he won't even give them a chance in a meaningless friendly - especially when there isn't better options and England desperately need to bring forward some CM's.
 

beats1

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Feb 22, 2010
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There were only 3 pull outs. Patrick Roberts, Axel Tuanzebe and Izzy Brown. There's definitely been more before.

http://www.espn.co.uk/football/manc...nzebe-left-out-of-england-u20-world-cup-squad
There was these guys eligible:
Abraham
Rashford
Roberts (had some scottish shit)
Tuanzebe
Brown (had playoffs)
Gomez
Rico Henry

Not to mention plenty more who looked good in the past who due to bad seasons didnt make it

Then you consider that these guys could have potentially gone but didnt like Oxford(who has been picked a lot for them), DaSilva and CCV. The first two have been previously promoted to this group

Compare that 2013 and we sent a very strong squad
 

spurs9

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Aug 31, 2012
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I know some people would scoff at this idea, but it was a friendly FFS, England have an absolute crisis in CM, and Cook and Onomah had just come off the back of winning an international World Cup and are proper CM's, they would be much sharper, more focused better tactically than the ambling Dier and OxCh who aren't really CM's and were woeful.

It's a bit rich the FA and Southgate moaning about PL managers not being prepared to play these kids if he won't even give them a chance in a meaningless friendly - especially when there isn't better options and England desperately need to bring forward some CM's.
Onomah and Cook only just finished a tournament 2 & 1/2 days before England played France. By the time they flee out to meet up with the seniors, there wouldn't be time to even train with the team, so would have been a poor decision IMO.

There is no excuse for not calling up someone like Tom Davies or even Ross Barkley though.
 

spurs9

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Aug 31, 2012
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It's England. No chance of that happening.

Not England but I remember Massimo Maccarone playing for Italy under 21s against England and scoring and then was playing for the full side 2 days later. Not the best example of a player given his career though obviously!
He played less than 90 mins total across the 2 games and hadn't just played in a tournament. Plus both games were played in the same County (Yorkshire) not different Continents.
 

Bus-Conductor

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Oct 19, 2004
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Onomah and Cook only just finished a tournament 2 & 1/2 days before England played France. By the time they flee out to meet up with the seniors, there wouldn't be time to even train with the team, so would have been a poor decision IMO.

There is no excuse for not calling up someone like Tom Davies or even Ross Barkley though.

It was only 3 days since Dier (whole game) and OC had ambled around Hampden like a pair of farts in trances. And they'd also come off the back of long pl seasons, as opposed to Onomah and Cook who were fresh as daisy's and would still be full of adrenaline from winning the wc. And like I said, he could have just given them a second half?

Like training with them would have made much difference with that shower of shite, probably would have been a blessing not to.

I have no idea why Livermore was called up ahead of Tom Carroll, a player Southgate often picked for the u21's.

If you look at the midfield players France had for that game compared to England, it's fucking scary.

Deschamps picked some good young players for the friendly but is getting deserved criticism too for other games, he's making some terrible choices (and did at the Euros imo). Leaving out Kanté, playing Pogba as a dm in a cm2, picking Sissoko over the likes of Dembele etc
 
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