General Youth Football

IGSpur

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Thread starter #42
England were poor and this group aren't as good as the 2014 group who are one of the best in recent times

Edwards was good but he needs to step it up imo, he isn't as good as Barkley or Onomah showed for the U17's. Though both Onomah and Barkley had the luxury of being the no.10 or in CM

Sterling should be starting imo, he is one of our best in that age group

Whiteman, had a good game but imo should have down better for the goal, he should of dive towards the ball rather throw himself at the ball

DaSilva didn't play like the DaSilva of Chelsea who bombs down the wings
The 2014 group were definitely better. That 97 group is incredibly talented.

I think you're harsh on Edwards. He is very different to Onomah, he was clearly England's most outstanding player and is a different style to Onomah. He is a small no.10 who can play RW whereas Onomah is a ball carrying CM at that age group that can play 10. Edwards is arguably the best player in his age group in Europe and potentially the world at the moment. He had a badish game yesterday and yet still put Mavididi through on goal, won a penalty and was on a different level to everyone.

Sterling should 100% be starting, Mavididi is shocking, how he ran the ball out of play was bad. Hinds/Sterling rotating between up front and on the right would work well.

I kind of agree about Whiteman. I thought he was excellent, but looking at his goal, it did seem as though he sort of threw himself in the air rather than dive towards it. But tbf the ball may have been hit too hard past him and he was just reacting as opposed to being able to save it. When the ball has been smashed it;s hard to instinctively push off with your legs in a certain direction when you're unsure if it will go to your left or right, and as a keeper you should never be beaten at your near post so there was no way he was going to commit to going to his right too early.

Chelsea and normal England DaSilva needs to return. He usually plays well for England. Davies, Mavididi, Kane, Williams and Suliman did nothing and don't look like they have anything in their locker. Play Patching deeper and I reckon Wood being from Man City may be technically better than Davies or Kane, and hold onto the ball better. Tbh I think Marsh is better than Davies from what I've seen of him, he'd do better in there. Want to see Humphreys and Collinge at the back
 

Romulus

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#44
The 2014 group were definitely better. That 97 group is incredibly talented.

I think you're harsh on Edwards. He is very different to Onomah, he was clearly England's most outstanding player and is a different style to Onomah. He is a small no.10 who can play RW whereas Onomah is a ball carrying CM at that age group that can play 10. Edwards is arguably the best player in his age group in Europe and potentially the world at the moment. He had a badish game yesterday and yet still put Mavididi through on goal, won a penalty and was on a different level to everyone.

Sterling should 100% be starting, Mavididi is shocking, how he ran the ball out of play was bad. Hinds/Sterling rotating between up front and on the right would work well.

I kind of agree about Whiteman. I thought he was excellent, but looking at his goal, it did seem as though he sort of threw himself in the air rather than dive towards it. But tbf the ball may have been hit too hard past him and he was just reacting as opposed to being able to save it. When the ball has been smashed it;s hard to instinctively push off with your legs in a certain direction when you're unsure if it will go to your left or right, and as a keeper you should never be beaten at your near post so there was no way he was going to commit to going to his right too early.

Chelsea and normal England DaSilva needs to return. He usually plays well for England. Davies, Mavididi, Kane, Williams and Suliman did nothing and don't look like they have anything in their locker. Play Patching deeper and I reckon Wood being from Man City may be technically better than Davies or Kane, and hold onto the ball better. Tbh I think Marsh is better than Davies from what I've seen of him, he'd do better in there. Want to see Humphreys and Collinge at the back
Agree with the Edwards stuff, although he wasn't at his best he still was creating, also put willock through after nutmegging their player. For me Edwards is the best England player so should be played in his best position where he can rarely be contained.

On the right he's a lot more predictable where he will always cut in as he's rarely gonna run past someone on the outside (although he did). Also is not the best defensively where they would expect him to help out the RB. In the middle he can spin any direction and put somebody through as he has done on numerous occasions for England so the coaches should know this.

Da silva I agree was unusually poor and yates didn't seem up to much either. Willock can be dangerous but I think he lacks a brain, beats his man and doesn't want to release it.

I actually thought Williams and suliman were ok. Distribution poor at times but defended well. I was really disappointed with kane and Davies who were terrible although I think they were over worked in the middle partly because of Edwards on the right.

Haven't seen much of Patching and thought he was garbage when he came on. We need to get sterling in, Edwards in the middle and drop mavididi
 

beats1

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#46
The 2014 group were definitely better. That 97 group is incredibly talented.

I think you're harsh on Edwards. He is very different to Onomah, he was clearly England's most outstanding player and is a different style to Onomah. He is a small no.10 who can play RW whereas Onomah is a ball carrying CM at that age group that can play 10. Edwards is arguably the best player in his age group in Europe and potentially the world at the moment. He had a badish game yesterday and yet still put Mavididi through on goal, won a penalty and was on a different level to everyone.

Sterling should 100% be starting, Mavididi is shocking, how he ran the ball out of play was bad. Hinds/Sterling rotating between up front and on the right would work well.

I kind of agree about Whiteman. I thought he was excellent, but looking at his goal, it did seem as though he sort of threw himself in the air rather than dive towards it. But tbf the ball may have been hit too hard past him and he was just reacting as opposed to being able to save it. When the ball has been smashed it;s hard to instinctively push off with your legs in a certain direction when you're unsure if it will go to your left or right, and as a keeper you should never be beaten at your near post so there was no way he was going to commit to going to his right too early.

Chelsea and normal England DaSilva needs to return. He usually plays well for England. Davies, Mavididi, Kane, Williams and Suliman did nothing and don't look like they have anything in their locker. Play Patching deeper and I reckon Wood being from Man City may be technically better than Davies or Kane, and hold onto the ball better. Tbh I think Marsh is better than Davies from what I've seen of him, he'd do better in there. Want to see Humphreys and Collinge at the back
TBF I did say edwards played well, at the level he wants to be and I know he can be he needs to start running games irregardless of his games and during this game we did see glimpses of that. He isn't being played in the middle and I think that is partially stopping him from running games but he has the potential to be more

His problem today wasn't size but more of an issue of trying to go past too many players to get in to the middle and run things

They are trying to play him as a RW but he needs time to get use to that role and more importantly space and thats hard when you have 2 strikers next to you and no CM that can provide him with decent service
 

edson

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#47
TBF I did say edwards played well, at the level he wants to be and I know he can be he needs to start running games irregardless of his games and during this game we did see glimpses of that. He isn't being played in the middle and I think that is partially stopping him from running games but he has the potential to be more

His problem today wasn't size but more of an issue of trying to go past too many players to get in to the middle and run things

They are trying to play him as a RW but he needs time to get use to that role and more importantly space and thats hard when you have 2 strikers next to you and no CM that can provide him with decent service
It is one thing Edwards does not do is run games from start to finish he tends to do is work in patches and a lot of last season he finished games stronger than he started them because they moved him off that F***ing right,he has not played as well as he did last year but you could say that about the u18s team as a hole because they have not found a team balance yet.Defensively he is a nightmare and often completely stops moving when he does not have the ball,this drivers me mad in any player the very best players the likes of Scholes never stop moving and that is what made him so hard to mark and this is something i would like to see Edwards add to his game because in and around the box he is a special player.
 

beats1

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#48
It is one thing Edwards does not do is run games from start to finish he tends to do is work in patches and a lot of last season he finished games stronger than he started them because they moved him off that F***ing right,he has not played as well as he did last year but you could say that about the u18s team as a hole because they have not found a team balance yet.Defensively he is a nightmare and often completely stops moving when he does not have the ball,this drivers me mad in any player the very best players the likes of Scholes never stop moving and that is what made him so hard to mark and this is something i would like to see Edwards add to his game because in and around the box he is a special player.
Im not expecting him to run the games from start from finish but over 90mins in the middle he would be creating a lot more chances and constantly being a threat throughout the game

I agree for us he hasn't been as good since he has been moved to the right.

IMO he was on track to be consistent U21 player and a sub performance this season had he continued that form from the right.

Whilst in the short term being on the right wont be good in the long term it will help him but he needs to play in a system that allows him space

People try and create the Barcelona system imo with the inverted wingers but overlook the key stuff they did to create space for each other imo our first team is also guilty of this
 

edson

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#49
Im not expecting him to run the games from start from finish but over 90mins in the middle he would be creating a lot more chances and constantly being a threat throughout the game

I agree for us he hasn't been as good since he has been moved to the right.

IMO he was on track to be consistent U21 player and a sub performance this season had he continued that form from the right.

Whilst in the short term being on the right wont be good in the long term it will help him but he needs to play in a system that allows him space

People try and create the Barcelona system imo with the inverted wingers but overlook the key stuff they did to create space for each other imo our first team is also guilty of this
I have to admit that I am not a fan of Inverted Wingers.
 

beats1

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#50
Belgium drew 0-0 today but apparently they only managed to get 2 shots in whilst Mali got in 26 shots two guys said Azzaoui was good another said he was a flop
 

mancman

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#51
Disappointing start from England. What is essential is that they must take their chances. Williams and Edwards should both of scored, in fact Edwards positioning suggested even to me that he was more likely to miss than score. The thing that really depressed me though is how England's Status One category academies are producing so few class players given the (generally) fantastic facilities and the money spent. The forward play of Mavididi was so very poor. The icing on the cake for me was the stupid (I think its the right word) team selection. It was so unbalanced and did not play to the strengths of the players in the squad. 4-2-1-3 is obviously the right choice with Edwards just behind the front 3. To put Edwards wide was insane. I felt sorry for Yates at right back! Overall typical England. Just watch we will find the right balance by luck than good judgement but too late to stop us exiting the tournament.
 

IGSpur

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Thread starter #52
TBF I did say edwards played well, at the level he wants to be and I know he can be he needs to start running games irregardless of his games and during this game we did see glimpses of that. He isn't being played in the middle and I think that is partially stopping him from running games but he has the potential to be more

His problem today wasn't size but more of an issue of trying to go past too many players to get in to the middle and run things

They are trying to play him as a RW but he needs time to get use to that role and more importantly space and thats hard when you have 2 strikers next to you and no CM that can provide him with decent service
I personally thought he was the only one trying anything and maybe took things on himself as noone was doing anything. The time he did try and go alone he got a pen after all.

He does need to play 10 though to be best for England. Regarding his performances for Spurs I think he needs a spotlight to really shine, rightly or wrongly. He regularly performs well for England and seems to up his game generally against decent teams for u18s, like Man City last year. The only decent team he didn't perform well against was Chelsea but that was also his last game before going to WC so may not have wanted to get injured. Like I said it may not be the right mentality but for me he looks technically better than most players so why not just try him more at u21s.

The thing that really depressed me though is how England's Status One category academies are producing so few class players given the (generally) fantastic facilities and the money spent.
Which clubs are you thinking. I think the big 3 do a good job in producing top players and the others generally do enough to supplement but everything is in cycles. Year above this one are are excellent, the years below current u17s are very good but the current u16s could potentially challenge the current u19s the way they're looking in midfield anyway
 

IGSpur

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Thread starter #53
The '97 group will definitely take some beating! Will be extremely disappointed if 3 or 4 of the guys now in this U19 squad don't become regulars for the senior team: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England_national_under-19_football_team
An indication of just how strong that group is/was. Compare them to the current crop. Humprheys should have started gone initially but look at the 2 CBs. Roshaun Williams is Englands 3rd? best CB. He played 1 u21s match last season as a sub and none this season. At the same age the summer of the previous season before the season started CCV had captained the u21s in France. Last season he played half of the matches he was available for our u21s. And was representing US at u23s at 16 yet still couldn't make the England squad. I'd argue even Maghoma has better credentials than Williams at the same stage and he was nowhere near England. Suliman is nowhere near Maghoma imo

Then comparing CM options for both age groups Davies/Kane/Wood/Gribbin(who should be at WC) v Ledson/Rossiter/Cook/Onomah.

Like you say 3 or 4 should make it but sadly a lot of them are at PL clubs and we know they will struggle to get introduced.

Fry, Gomez and Cook are the most likely to have successful careers based off the clubs they've started at
 

mancman

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#54
IGSPUR

' Which clubs are you thinking. I think the big 3 do a good job in producing top players and the others generally do enough to supplement but everything is in cycles. Year above this one are are excellent, the years below current u17s are very good but the current u16s could potentially challenge the current u19s the way they're looking in midfield anyway.'

I assume you mean Chelsea, Man City and Spurs at youth level. Add Liverpool, Arsenal, Man Utd and Everton . They do not produce the quality or quantity to justify the expense especially if you discount foreign imports. Looking at the choice of forwards at U17 level (those qualifying for this WC U17) we seem to be relying on Arsenal - Hinds., Willock ( a winger but very good), Mavidid with the others being Sterling (Spurs) , Ugbo (Chelsea), Holland (Everton - more a winger), Nmecha (Man City) and that about it from 7 top clubs. 5 forwards? Pretty slim pickings I think. I wonder how much money/ quality of facilities are at the disposal of Guinea? I suppose I should take consolation in the fact that South Korea beat the mighty Brazil 1-0 in our group. The next England game against Brazil could see Brazil being knocked out- how the mighty have fallen - even at this level. What does worry me is how well the African countries are doing especially when there are constant question marks against the true age of the players.
 

IGSpur

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Thread starter #55
IGSPUR

' Which clubs are you thinking. I think the big 3 do a good job in producing top players and the others generally do enough to supplement but everything is in cycles. Year above this one are are excellent, the years below current u17s are very good but the current u16s could potentially challenge the current u19s the way they're looking in midfield anyway.'

I assume you mean Chelsea, Man City and Spurs at youth level. Add Liverpool, Arsenal, Man Utd and Everton . They do not produce the quality or quantity to justify the expense especially if you discount foreign imports. Looking at the choice of forwards at U17 level (those qualifying for this WC U17) we seem to be relying on Arsenal - Hinds., Willock ( a winger but very good), Mavidid with the others being Sterling (Spurs) , Ugbo (Chelsea), Holland (Everton - more a winger), Nmecha (Man City) and that about it from 7 top clubs. 5 forwards? Pretty slim pickings I think. I wonder how much money/ quality of facilities are at the disposal of Guinea? I suppose I should take consolation in the fact that South Korea beat the mighty Brazil 1-0 in our group. The next England game against Brazil could see Brazil being knocked out- how the mighty have fallen - even at this level. What does worry me is how well the African countries are doing especially when there are constant question marks against the true age of the players.
I think that is quite harsh. Man city academy regularly win international tournaments as do Cheslea who won the youth CL. People talk about Bayern's academy but City recently thrashed them 6-1 in what was by all accounts a really dominant performance and not out of the ordinary. Angel Gomes at Utd has won multiple player of the tournament awards, and the top players at most of these academies are English, and not foreign imports. Like I said the 00 borns coming through have the poential to be special and the 99s are also a very talented group

Without knowing the ins and outs of every country I don't think at youth level we are doing any worse than most. England currently, have Kane, Wickham, Berahino and Afobe from the 93 age group. What are the striker options for other countries at that age group. As many people have said producing top level strikers is difficult.

At this World Cup we actually have Hephburn-Murphy, Sterling, Mavididi, Hinds and Ugbo then like you said there is also Luka Nmecha who is doing well this season at City and Hector-Ingram at West Ham who looked good when I saw him. Realistically speaking how many striker options to you expect us to produce? From my viewing the only one I really don't rate is Mavididi and he has still scored 5 goals at u21s this year. You could also compare Guinea to any of the other sides. Guinea also beat Nigeria I think in qualification for this and Nigeria are reigning champions so they are no slouches. You could compare us to Portugal, who are fed by Benfica and Sporting who are their top strikers. I think only now their next Golden Generation is coming through they've been carried by Ronaldo for a while, so it just shows that things happen in phases and cycles.

I don't get what you mean about the african countries. But they have and have always had decent academies, though I don't know how they are set up. The Right to Dream academy recently won the Milk Cup smashing Soton in the final, I don't know what they're doing but it is successful.
 

Blake Griffin

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#56
reece oxford played for west ham u21s tonight, i'm sure that was well worth missing the chance to captain your country at a world cup.
 

TottenhamLegend

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#59
Glad Davies and Mavididi are dropped. And obviously glad Sterling starts. Also looks like Edwards is central which should have been an absolute given but clearly they weren't sure!
 

IGSpur

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Thread starter #60
Sterling on the right makes so much sense, though I'm surprised they're not going with Hinds up top, though I did like Ugbo when I saw him against Chelesa, thought he was decent. Will balance this with wathcing Oduwa
 
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