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Gomes is becoming a liability again

thfcsteff

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2005
1,117
339
IMHO people criticizing Gomes really need to review their knowledge of the game AND understanding of the way the game is currently going. Right now there seems to be a giant campaign to penalize a keeper who in any way goes for a 50/50 in the box...NO advantage EVER seems to go with the keeper. And if he didn't go for those balls and we conceded a goal, whoooooooo, thunder would errupt amongst the supporters!

His only genuine mistake for me in the recent weeks was Drogba's goal, and frankly, given how many times a match the guys saves us with stops that no other keeper would get close to, I'm prepared to take it on the chin...he remains one of the top 4 goalkeepers in the Prem...
 

jonathanhotspur

Loose Cannon
Jun 28, 2009
10,292
8,250
Drogba's goal? Good grief, I had actually let that one slip my mind. Gave away a stupid penalty in the same game, lost the run of himself at the Emirates for Nasri's goal, Nanigate, sent off in the San Siro, looked shaky on in the away game with Twente, should have stopped Bolton's first goal at the Reebok, gave away a ludicrously soft goal against Blackburn. That's just off the top of my head.
 

piedpiper

Well-Known Member
Aug 14, 2008
3,758
6,763
IMHO people criticizing Gomes really need to review their knowledge of the game AND understanding of the way the game is currently going. Right now there seems to be a giant campaign to penalize a keeper who in any way goes for a 50/50 in the box...NO advantage EVER seems to go with the keeper. And if he didn't go for those balls and we conceded a goal, whoooooooo, thunder would errupt amongst the supporters!

His only genuine mistake for me in the recent weeks was Drogba's goal, and frankly, given how many times a match the guys saves us with stops that no other keeper would get close to, I'm prepared to take it on the chin...he remains one of the top 4 goalkeepers in the Prem...

As said by a blinkered spurs supporter (bold bit). As a fellow spurs fan he is not near in the top 4 in this league. in no particular order these guys are better. Van Der Sar,Petr Cech,Rainer(sp),Joe Hart,Shay Given,Jussi Juskelaanen (sp), Brad Friedel. this is based on what i have seen of these keepers over the last 3 seasons. if there were a goal keeper ranking in the league it would be interesting to see exactly where gomes fits in BUT for me he is not in the top 4 not by a mile.
 

ChRiStOpHe

It's a piece of cake to bake a pretty cake
Dec 14, 2004
12,813
331
IMHO people criticizing Gomes really need to review their knowledge of the game AND understanding of the way the game is currently going. Right now there seems to be a giant campaign to penalize a keeper who in any way goes for a 50/50 in the box...NO advantage EVER seems to go with the keeper. And if he didn't go for those balls and we conceded a goal, whoooooooo, thunder would errupt amongst the supporters!

His only genuine mistake for me in the recent weeks was Drogba's goal, and frankly, given how many times a match the guys saves us with stops that no other keeper would get close to, I'm prepared to take it on the chin...he remains one of the top 4 goalkeepers in the Prem...

Great post :clap:

As said by a blinkered spurs supporter (bold bit). As a fellow spurs fan he is not near in the top 4 in this league. in no particular order these guys are better. Van Der Sar,Petr Cech, Reina, Joe Hart, Shay Given, Jussi Juskelaanen (sp), Brad Friedel. this is based on what i have seen of these keepers over the last 3 seasons. if there were a goal keeper ranking in the league it would be interesting to see exactly where gomes fits in BUT for me he is not in the top 4 not by a mile.

Really? :lol:

Just sayin' :)
 

piedpiper

Well-Known Member
Aug 14, 2008
3,758
6,763
Great post :clap:



Really? :lol:

Just sayin' :)

Hi, i am not on a wind up here. i just cannot believe that we have posters on here who believe he is in the top 4. if that were so why has this thread gone on for as long as it has. just visit other forumns and there are threads regarding mr gomes as well. I accept that he is better than what we have had in the recent past however he makes some stupid decisions which can at times be costly for the team. it is no coincidence that we have not kept a clean sheet since the opening day.
 

InOffMeLeftShin

Night watchman
Admin
Jan 14, 2004
15,104
9,113
As said by a blinkered spurs supporter (bold bit). As a fellow spurs fan he is not near in the top 4 in this league. in no particular order these guys are better. Van Der Sar,Petr Cech,Rainer(sp),Joe Hart,Shay Given,Jussi Juskelaanen (sp), Brad Friedel. this is based on what i have seen of these keepers over the last 3 seasons. if there were a goal keeper ranking in the league it would be interesting to see exactly where gomes fits in BUT for me he is not in the top 4 not by a mile.

He would have been number 1 last year. People are forgetting how bloody good he was with a consistent backline in front of him where it was easy for him to make the correct decisions. He is absolute top quality in terms of goalkeeping ability without any shadow of a doubt. His decision making can be questionable but:

1. He has played with 13,407 different combinations of defenders in front of him just this season

2. Our defence detatches from the rest of our team sits deep and allows the ball to be played into the space in front of them. This invites pressure and as we get ever deeper the space that Gomes is supposed to command gets filled with bodies. If we just squeezed up with a decently quick guy (King, Bassong or Kaboul) to cover certain through balls then we would be fine. Gomes could simply come off his line and claim every ball coming into the box.

3. With so many bodies in the box opposition tend to lump it in and then bully Gomes. The number of kicks and pushes he gets is ridiculous and most of the time they go unpunished. Again it would appear much more obvious that he was being bashed about if we didn't allow so many bodies in there.
 

nickchrissi

Well-Known Member
May 5, 2004
2,134
33
As said by a blinkered spurs supporter (bold bit). As a fellow spurs fan he is not near in the top 4 in this league. in no particular order these guys are better. Van Der Sar,Petr Cech,Rainer(sp),Joe Hart,Shay Given,Jussi Juskelaanen (sp), Brad Friedel. this is based on what i have seen of these keepers over the last 3 seasons. if there were a goal keeper ranking in the league it would be interesting to see exactly where gomes fits in BUT for me he is not in the top 4 not by a mile.

You live in FANTASY

Van Der Sar - spilled the ball against west brom
Reina - rolled into the goal with the ball against arsenal
Hart - rushed out all guns blazing and missed the ball against blackburn

They are the first that come to mind as i don't watch them as closely as i do Gomes.

And don't get me started on Jaaskelainen, Friedel or even Given!!
 

tooey

60% banana
Apr 22, 2005
5,228
7,948
I think he's a decent keeper.

Positives:

  • Strong
  • Agile
  • Shot Stopping
  • Distribution
  • Reactions
  • Bravery
Negatives:

  • Handling
  • Communication with back 4
  • Poor decision making at times
  • Flapping at every cross
  • A bit of a pansy when he takes a knock
The first 4 of the negatives can all be worked on. I understand Some keepers perfer to punch the ball, but it releaves a lot of pressure and installs confidence along the back four if the keeper climbs well and makes a cross his. He also tends to go down early on one v one's. He's not a bad 1v1 keeper by any means but if you look at the likes of Schemichal, Kahn etc. They would stay on their feet as long as possible and make themselves big. Gomes tends to do a bent knee thing with his arms sprawled to his sides (much like Robbo does).

I think that we should monitor his performances for the rest of the season. If he aint cutting the mustard then I think its time to look elsewhere, not because hes not a good keeper, but because he's not a fantastic keeper. Unless he progresses and kicks out some of the errors hes started making.
 

piedpiper

Well-Known Member
Aug 14, 2008
3,758
6,763
You live in FANTASY

Van Der Sar - spilled the ball against west brom
Reina - rolled into the goal with the ball against arsenal
Hart - rushed out all guns blazing and missed the ball against blackburn

They are the first that come to mind as i don't watch them as closely as i do Gomes.

And don't get me started on Jaaskelainen, Friedel or even Given!!

I actually do not think i am living in "fantasy", on the contrary it is those posters who refuse to acknowledge that Gomes has cocked up big time this season and defend him blindly who are actually in denial. yes the keepers you mention may have made mistakes and like gomes no one expects them not to make mistakes from time to time. it is the amount of STUPID errors he makes which make him a ticking time bomb, you have watched all the games this season im sure and do not have to go into detail. He is our last line of defence and we need him to step up at times and make a decision and not remain routed to his line. particularly the albrighton cross into the box.

Having watched the incident in slow motion, you would see lennon tracking albrighton and moving backwards and not closing him down, at one point he looks back to see where Hutton is as if he were gestering him for assistance. Lennon was maybe at fault for the cross coming in and he should have closed Albrighton down. ultimately Gomes needed to command his box and should have come forward and made an attempt to clear the ball. had he missed whilst doing so and the ball went in then i would not have blamed gomes as he attempted the save/block. the fact that he was indecisive is what gets me. his decision making is appalling. excellent shot stopper but poor at decision making.
 

piedpiper

Well-Known Member
Aug 14, 2008
3,758
6,763
He would have been number 1 last year. People are forgetting how bloody good he was with a consistent backline in front of him where it was easy for him to make the correct decisions. He is absolute top quality in terms of goalkeeping ability without any shadow of a doubt. His decision making can be questionable but:

1. He has played with 13,407 different combinations of defenders in front of him just this season

2. Our defence detatches from the rest of our team sits deep and allows the ball to be played into the space in front of them. This invites pressure and as we get ever deeper the space that Gomes is supposed to command gets filled with bodies. If we just squeezed up with a decently quick guy (King, Bassong or Kaboul) to cover certain through balls then we would be fine. Gomes could simply come off his line and claim every ball coming into the box.

3. With so many bodies in the box opposition tend to lump it in and then bully Gomes. The number of kicks and pushes he gets is ridiculous and most of the time they go unpunished. Again it would appear much more obvious that he was being bashed about if we didn't allow so many bodies in there.

He was excellent last year no doubt and we would not have got a top 4 without his contribution. Do you not think that the reason our defenders close up on him is because they see his inablity to make decisions and they attempt to take control of the situation. I hope that the coaching staff are working with him to iron out the glaring weaknesses in his game.
 

piedpiper

Well-Known Member
Aug 14, 2008
3,758
6,763
I think he's a decent keeper.

Positives:

  • Strong
  • Agile
  • Shot Stopping
  • Distribution
  • Reactions
  • Bravery
Negatives:

  • Handling
  • Communication with back 4
  • Poor decision making at times
  • Flapping at every cross
  • A bit of a pansy when he takes a knock
The first 4 of the negatives can all be worked on. I understand Some keepers perfer to punch the ball, but it releaves a lot of pressure and installs confidence along the back four if the keeper climbs well and makes a cross his. He also tends to go down early on one v one's. He's not a bad 1v1 keeper by any means but if you look at the likes of Schemichal, Kahn etc. They would stay on their feet as long as possible and make themselves big. Gomes tends to do a bent knee thing with his arms sprawled to his sides (much like Robbo does).

I think that we should monitor his performances for the rest of the season. If he aint cutting the mustard then I think its time to look elsewhere, not because hes not a good keeper, but because he's not a fantastic keeper. Unless he progresses and kicks out some of the errors hes started making.

Duly repped. :up:. excellent analysis.
 

InOffMeLeftShin

Night watchman
Admin
Jan 14, 2004
15,104
9,113
He was excellent last year no doubt and we would not have got a top 4 without his contribution. Do you not think that the reason our defenders close up on him is because they see his inablity to make decisions and they attempt to take control of the situation. I hope that the coaching staff are working with him to iron out the glaring weaknesses in his game.

If they are closing back because they see his inabilty to make decisions then they need to have a severe rethink because they are making his life twice as difficult. Using your Albrighton example, which one of our defenders stood off, stood off, stood off and then attempted to take control of the situation? They didn't. They stood off, right onto the 6 yard line and it only resulted in allowing Collins to also move into that space, Gomes having nowhere to really go and it all resulting in a big mess. Gomes was actually in the right place before the cross came in, his positioning was perfect. It would have been an absolutely routine catch if his 6 yard box hadn't been packed, or if the cross had come in shallower due to us not being so deep then he was in the right position to make a save from any attempt coming outside the 6 yard box.

It isn't an isolated incident. Our defence gets too deep every time we have a lead. It is as though they think that being as deep as possible is the answer to keeping the opposition out. This is when we appear 'stretched' and 'open', particularly in midfield. Our attack carries on going full out and the defence drops deep and then in the middle of the pitch we have huge holes everywhere and we let the opposition come at us.

We need to sort that out first, while Tony Parks reminds Gomes how good he is and tries to lift his confidence. A clean sheet would go along way towards that.
 

nickchrissi

Well-Known Member
May 5, 2004
2,134
33
I actually do not think i am living in "fantasy", on the contrary it is those posters who refuse to acknowledge that Gomes has cocked up big time this season and defend him blindly who are actually in denial. yes the keepers you mention may have made mistakes and like gomes no one expects them not to make mistakes from time to time. it is the amount of STUPID errors he makes which make him a ticking time bomb, you have watched all the games this season im sure and do not have to go into detail. He is our last line of defence and we need him to step up at times and make a decision and not remain routed to his line. particularly the albrighton cross into the box.

Having watched the incident in slow motion, you would see lennon tracking albrighton and moving backwards and not closing him down, at one point he looks back to see where Hutton is as if he were gestering him for assistance. Lennon was maybe at fault for the cross coming in and he should have closed Albrighton down. ultimately Gomes needed to command his box and should have come forward and made an attempt to clear the ball. had he missed whilst doing so and the ball went in then i would not have blamed gomes as he attempted the save/block. the fact that he was indecisive is what gets me. his decision making is appalling. excellent shot stopper but poor at decision making.

I can't understand how on earth he made a mistake by standing his ground and anticipated Collins could get a touch on it, only for Collins to miss it and the ball just beat him. He would have had to get through the wall of Collins AND Kaboul to claim the ball.

So you're saying that if he came to punch the ball and missed it, you'd have been happier?

Well thank f*** you're not our keeper, and you probably don't get down the lane too often.

HEURELHO GOMES, YOU ARE THE LOVE OF MY LIFE!
HEURELHO GOMES, I'D LET YOU SHAG MY WIFE!
HEURELHO GOMES, I WISH I WAS BRAZILIAN TOOOOOOOO!
 

piedpiper

Well-Known Member
Aug 14, 2008
3,758
6,763
If they are closing back because they see his inabilty to make decisions then they need to have a severe rethink because they are making his life twice as difficult. Using your Albrighton example, which one of our defenders stood off, stood off, stood off and then attempted to take control of the situation? They didn't. They stood off, right onto the 6 yard line and it only resulted in allowing Collins to also move into that space, Gomes having nowhere to really go and it all resulting in a big mess. Gomes was actually in the right place before the cross came in, his positioning was perfect. It would have been an absolutely routine catch if his 6 yard box hadn't been packed, or if the cross had come in shallower due to us not being so deep then he was in the right position to make a save from any attempt coming outside the 6 yard box.

It isn't an isolated incident. Our defence gets too deep every time we have a lead. It is as though they think that being as deep as possible is the answer to keeping the opposition out. This is when we appear 'stretched' and 'open', particularly in midfield. Our attack carries on going full out and the defence drops deep and then in the middle of the pitch we have huge holes everywhere and we let the opposition come at us.

We need to sort that out first, while Tony Parks reminds Gomes how good he is and tries to lift his confidence. A clean sheet would go along way towards that.

You make some valid comments there IOMLS, i still blame Lennon and Hutton who was in a central defenders postion for allowing that cross to come in. with the momentum of the ball coming in and their players attacking, our defenders would naturally close in on Gomes.

It got me thinking of player rotation and i would have liked to see Hutton moved up later in the game and bringing on Corluka and lennon coming off. this did happen but much later in the game. i keep seeing that slo mo replay of Lennon looking for hutton who was no where near him. i have no qualms with our squad, i would hope that the games are analysed and our weaknesses exposed and eradicated in a team session.
 

nickchrissi

Well-Known Member
May 5, 2004
2,134
33
Also one minute you're calling him a ticking timebomb, and then next you're saying you want him to rush out of goal like a headless chicken and aren't bothered if he flaps and misses the ball cos he tried?

I don't know why i'm wasting my time
 

piedpiper

Well-Known Member
Aug 14, 2008
3,758
6,763
I can't understand how on earth he made a mistake by standing his ground and anticipated Collins could get a touch on it, only for Collins to miss it and the ball just beat him. He would have had to get through the wall of Collins AND Kaboul to claim the ball.

So you're saying that if he came to punch the ball and missed it, you'd have been happier?

Well thank f*** you're not our keeper, and you probably don't get down the lane too often.

HEURELHO GOMES, YOU ARE THE LOVE OF MY LIFE!
HEURELHO GOMES, I'D LET YOU SHAG MY WIFE!
HEURELHO GOMES, I WISH I WAS BRAZILIAN TOOOOOOOO!

Please do me a favour and watch that incident again. you will see gomes motionless on his line as the ball is crossed. he only begins to attempt the save once the ball lands and at that stage it was too late. I stand by my original argument which you misconstrue. Had he come out and attempted to negate the cross he would most likely have have made the save. however had he he come out attempted to make the save and missed then i would put my hands up and say he made the attempt of saving that ball like any keeper would.

no i don't get to the lane at all, live thousands of miles away. I like your little song there and can understand your commited defence of Mr Gomes :grin:.
 

piedpiper

Well-Known Member
Aug 14, 2008
3,758
6,763
Also one minute you're calling him a ticking timebomb, and then next you're saying you want him to rush out of goal like a headless chicken and aren't bothered if he flaps and misses the ball cos he tried?

I don't know why i'm wasting my time

Just as a point of correction, you are in fact making that particular statement.
 

jurgen

Busy ****
Jul 5, 2008
6,710
17,167
I like how the Sky Sports blinkers come on with the goalie debate and we have someone saying Shay "Splinters" Given is better than Gomes. If you think Gomes doesn't control his defence or his box but does pretty saves to mask it then you've seen nothing yet if we were to buy that gnome from Man City....
 

chadders

Active Member
Mar 21, 2009
322
191
Please do me a favour and watch that incident again. you will see gomes motionless on his line as the ball is crossed. he only begins to attempt the save once the ball lands and at that stage it was too late. I stand by my original argument which you misconstrue. Had he come out and attempted to negate the cross he would most likely have have made the save. however had he he come out attempted to make the save and missed then i would put my hands up and say he made the attempt of saving that ball like any keeper would.

no i don't get to the lane at all, live thousands of miles away. I like your little song there and can understand your commited defence of Mr Gomes :grin:.

Its a ball you expect to be dealt with way before it comes across the box. Gomes is absolutely class, makes the odd mistake but so does Van Der Sar, Petr Cech. The TV or media does not often do any keepers justice with the saves they make.
 

haxman

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2007
16,911
8,146
I like how the Sky Sports blinkers come on with the goalie debate and we have someone saying Shay "Splinters" Given is better than Gomes. If you think Gomes doesn't control his defence or his box but does pretty saves to mask it then you've seen nothing yet if we were to buy that gnome from Man City....

Given is a fine keeper and City are lucky to have 2 top quality goalies on their books.
 
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