Graham Poll: Son's penalty goal should have stood

[Dharmabum]

I was all for VAR for a long time - thinking they would not be able to mess it up as "well" as they did in the Rochdale game. I will still give VAR a chance - but only if the people in charge are able to sort out the mess.
And how on earth could they not see and correct the decision regarding Son's penalty



P.S. The decision to award an indirect free-kick after Son Heung-min's penalty was incorrect. Son feinted during his run-up — as the law allows — and not at the end of it, which is banned. So with VAR in place, why didn't the video ref help Tierney to get it correct? If it's because protocol doesn't allow him to, then it's a farce.

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[SirNiNyHotspur]

Cheers for posting, basically said what I had said in an earlier post... smart guy that Mr.Poll, seriously though in full agreement with him on these points:

All football fans recall the CLEAR AND OBVIOUS errors they want rectified like the Diego Maradona 'Hand of God' and France's winner after Thierry Henry's handball against Ireland. Those could have been corrected in seconds.

But reviewing every goal is ruining the joy of scoring — which is too high a price to pay.

If VAR had not been in operation the first goal would have stood and the penalty would not have been awarded.

Borderline decisions should not be reviewed as football is not an exact science and watching Paul Tierney, an excellent referee, seem to dither and delay routine decisions proved how unsettling it is.

 

[Dillspur]

I was for VAR, but if they continue to review all goals it will kill the spontaneity and euphoria of scoring said goal, could you imagine if they had to review City’s goal the year they won the league in the 95th minute

 

[piedpiper]

It should only be used where there is a contentious/disputed incident... Offside/Diving etc.


I gave up watching the 2nd half out of shere frustration after Llorente scored his first goal.

 

[littlewilly]

It should only be used where there is a contentious/disputed incident... Offside/Diving etc.


I gave up watching the 2nd half out of shere frustration after Llorente scored his first goal.

Lord. I could never do that.

 

[JimmyG2]

Should be used as back up when requested by the referee
or when suggested by a linesman to the ref.if on field situation requires clarification.
Otherwise it completely undermines the authority of the ref and linesmen
as it did on Wednesday and leaves them as slaves to the machine.
Got it wrong over Son's penalty.between them.
'Feinting' during the run-up is specifically permitted.

History repeated itself as farce rather than tragedy fortunately.

Referee reduced to a quivering jelly
trying to mark out free kick limits with white spray on snow.

 

[worcestersauce]

I don't think var should have been used in the penalty incident, the referee saw exactly what happened so there was nothing to look at on var. To suggest var should have been used is to suggest that the referee should have asked the man looking at the monitor his opinion on the rules and that is not what var is for.

 

[dagraham]

There are so many reasons why it will cause problems in the game. Firstly, football is unlike Tennis, Cricket, Rubgy etc. It's a flowing game, so stopping continuously is simply going to ruin it. Secondly, there is no respect to officials and intimidation is the norm. So, even if we leave it up to the on field ref to decide what's referred or not, imo this will just lead to players surrounding the ref and influencing him. The already did it anyway (when there is never any recourse to change the refs mind) so I suspect it will be even worse when players think they can actually try and change a decision.

As I've said before, I think the only way is allow teams 2 or 3 challenges a match where the on field ref can look at an incident (a goal, penalty, bad foul etc) again with the aid of a monitor. Nothing more.

Hopefully more and more current players, managers, ex-pro's, fans and officials complain about the current system. Unfortunately though, FIFA, UEFA, PL don't have a history of paying any attention to these people.

 

[stevenurse]

Completely agree that it shouldn't be all goals being looked at. The problem is that we as fans, and the media in particular, can't have it both ways.

If a marginal offside isnt reviewed, the pundits will say 'the technology is there, why didn't they look at it?'

But if it is looked at and disallowed, the 'you can't celebrate a goal anymore' lot will come out.

My biggest gripe was the fact Lamela's goal was disallowed for a foul by Llorente, despite him being fouled slightly before his apparent "foul". How far does it go back? In my opinion, if you disallow that goal, you have to give the prior penalty.

 

[mightyspur]

There are so many reasons why it will cause problems in the game. Firstly, football is unlike Tennis, Cricket, Rubgy etc. It's a flowing game, so stopping continuously is simply going to ruin it. Secondly, there is no respect to officials and intimidation is the norm. So, even if we leave it up to the on field ref to decide what's referred or not, imo this will just lead to players surrounding the ref and influencing him. The already did it anyway (when there is never any recourse to change the refs mind) so I suspect it will be even worse when players think they can actually try and change a decision.

As I've said before, I think the only way is allow teams 2 or 3 challenges a match where the on field ref can look at an incident (a goal, penalty, bad foul etc) again with the aid of a monitor. Nothing more.

Hopefully more and more current players, managers, ex-pro's, fans and officials complain about the current system. Unfortunately though, FIFA, UEFA, PL don't have a history of paying any attention to these people.

Challenges are a terrible idea.

There is nothing wrong with VAR, but there is a problem with the way it is currently implemented as demonstrated the other night. There is nothing wrong with reviewing every goal in the background. Players celebrate, that takes time. As long as the review is completed in 30 seconds to a minute to catch any 'clear and obvious' issues then it will work fine. Taking 2 mins + for a decision isn't helping.

It would also be beneficial if the crowd got to see what the video ref was reviewing and the TV was able to listen in on the decision making as they do in rugby. The hanging around not knowing what is going on is the frustrating thing for the players and fans and unfortunately a LOT of fans don't really know all the rules (despite what they may think) so are at a loss when it is reviewed / decisions are made.

They can make the VAR decisions an interesting part of the game and part of the entertainment, but as per usual football is trying to do things differently and being secretive about everything.

 

[Armstrong_11]

Paul Tierney was juz an idiot...

The A in VAR stands for assistant. Go and view the bloody video and make a judgement. U are the ref... It isn't God talking in your ear telling u what to do.

 

[dagraham]

Challenges are a terrible idea.

There is nothing wrong with VAR, but there is a problem with the way it is currently implemented as demonstrated the other night. There is nothing wrong with reviewing every goal in the background. Players celebrate, that takes time. As long as the review is completed in 30 seconds to a minute to catch any 'clear and obvious' issues then it will work fine. Taking 2 mins + for a decision isn't helping.

It would also be beneficial if the crowd got to see what the video ref was reviewing and the TV was able to listen in on the decision making as they do in rugby. The hanging around not knowing what is going on is the frustrating thing for the players and fans and unfortunately a LOT of fans don't really know all the rules (despite what they may think) so are at a loss when it is reviewed / decisions are made.

They can make the VAR decisions an interesting part of the game and part of the entertainment, but as per usual football is trying to do things differently and being secretive about everything.

Care to explain why they are such a bad idea?

It would be better than the total farce we have at the moment.

 

[Bobbins]

The problem against Rochdale was that the game was being refereed twice - every decision the ref made was undermined by the VAR.

Automatically reviewing every goal could end up being the worst thing that’s ever happened to the game.

Allow the ref to ask for VAR to be used when he wants it, and that’s it. It should be a tool he can use, not a judgemental system of second guessing everything he does.

 

[Ironskullll]

I was all for VAR for a long time - thinking they would not be able to mess it up as "well" as they did in the Rochdale game. I will still give VAR a chance - but only if the people in charge are able to sort out the mess.
And how on earth could they not see and correct the decision regarding Son's penalty



P.S. The decision to award an indirect free-kick after Son Heung-min's penalty was incorrect. Son feinted during his run-up — as the law allows — and not at the end of it, which is banned. So with VAR in place, why didn't the video ref help Tierney to get it correct? If it's because protocol doesn't allow him to, then it's a farce.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...3/GRAHAM-POLL-VAR-stop-now.html#ixzz58Y1tuAZS
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The referee Foy said on BT at the time that it had been disallowed for “an illegal feint”. During the post match discussion when the wording of the law was pointed out to him, he then argued that it wasn’t a “feint”’, but that Son had actually stopped during his run up and that that constituted ungentlemanly conduct. For feinting at the end of a run up, the punishment is indeed a yellow and a restart from an indirect free kick. But if the offence was ungentlemanly conduct then it took place before the kick was taken and therefore the kick should have been retaken. When I did a refereeing course moons ago I did get the impression that a lot of refs make things up as they go along, and this episode just adds to it. The rule about feinting was introduced and the explicit wording was intended to replace the earlier nebulous concept of ungentlemanly conduct. A fat lot of good it did.

 

[Jody]

It'll take fans staying away from games for them to scale back on it. And I don't think that'll happen unfortunately.
Might as well be sat on your sofa with a VR headset on playing a fully immersive game of fifa.
End of football as we know it imo.

 

[Wellspurs]

I have a habit of glancing at the linesman when we score before going mad... Are we all going to have to wait several minutes before the sheer joy of a goal in future?
I would rather a few mistakes than putting up with this bollocks.

 

[Jody]

The problem against Rochdale was that the game was being refereed twice - every decision the red made was undermined by the VAR.

Automatically reviewing every goal could end up being the worst thing that’s ever happened to the game.

Allow the red to ask for VAR to be used when he wants it, and that’s it. It should be a tool he can use, not a judgemental system of second guessing everything he does.

Problem is...with such high stakes they will still probably end up defaulting to it for every goal.

 

[Lemon]

There are so many reasons why it will cause problems in the game. Firstly, football is unlike Tennis, Cricket, Rubgy etc. It's a flowing game, so stopping continuously is simply going to ruin it. Secondly, there is no respect to officials and intimidation is the norm. So, even if we leave it up to the on field ref to decide what's referred or not, imo this will just lead to players surrounding the ref and influencing him. The already did it anyway (when there is never any recourse to change the refs mind) so I suspect it will be even worse when players think they can actually try and change a decision.

As I've said before, I think the only way is allow teams 2 or 3 challenges a match where the on field ref can look at an incident (a goal, penalty, bad foul etc) again with the aid of a monitor. Nothing more.

Hopefully more and more current players, managers, ex-pro's, fans and officials complain about the current system. Unfortunately though, FIFA, UEFA, PL don't have a history of paying any attention to these people.

Completely agree about flow, well said.

Also agree about limiting appeals, think it should be referee, linesman only, with 1 challenge per team (that they keep, if correctly challenged).

The first half was not football I am going to regularly watch, even if streamlined as it stands.

 

[Lemon]

It'll take fans staying away from games for them to scale back on it. And I don't think that'll happen unfortunately.
Might as well be sat on your sofa with a VR headset on playing a fully immersive game of fifa.
End of football as we know it imo.

fifa 2020 will have VAR as well you know! (not that I have ever played it)

 

[Lilbaz]

Don't want var. Referees will make mistakes from time to time we'll just have to live with it.