Guardiola to take over at Man City

[-Afri-Coy-]

I don't think I have read anyone on here saying he is rubbish. He deserves credit for what he did at Barcelona but he also was quite privileged in that he had some of the best players in the world at the club and one of the best young academies in the world. Plus they could just buy anyone they needed to.

It's not just this thread that there is unwarranted hatred, as I said their own fans and the media are mostly to blame for this.

If memory serves me correctly, he only purchased Costa, Tiago and Alonso when he was at Bayern, and I mean starting 11 players not squad additions or youth. The rest of the squad could adapt too his system and they were a real force with him. But they are faltering this season under Ancelotti. It's not longer a one way road in the Bundesliga. He did adopt one of the strongest teams in the world when he took over, but the squad is largely the same now under Ancelotti. Ancelotti should be miles ahead of the pack if it's down to just the level of players Pep has had the opportunity to work with.

We tend to pick on him because he has been tout as the best manager in football.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

Well you're clearly a Pep fanboy and that's fine but I don't give a damn what he's done in some mickey mouse Spanish league, I'll judge him on what he does in a league with real competition here. At the moment he's failing considering the resources he has. I'm sure he'll go out, spend millions on a new team and eventually win the title and have everyone fawning over his tactical genius. Good for him.

And you're clearly a Pep hater and that's fine with me too. We are entitled to our own opinions.

What about the Champions League? Is that Mickey Mouse?

And what about Bayern, The bundesliga and german football as a whole were tout as Mickey Mouse when he won everything bar the CL with them, and now under Ancelotti they can't even open a gap of 3 points at the top, never mind 7-10 points that Pep managed with the same squad. But I guess you'll have an excuse for that too.

He knows nothing about football and buys or adopts success is what you're trying to say, and that's simply not the case.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

That misses the point of why he's facing criticism though.

He is being criticized for his attitude and failure to adapt to the demands of the EPL, I understand that.

But at the end of the day this is football and the points matter more than anything. And that's just a measly 3 away from us, whilst managing to stay in the CL.

 

[alfie103]

It's not just this thread that there is unwarranted hatred, as I said their own fans and the media are mostly to blame for this.

If memory serves me correctly, he only purchased Costa, Tiago and Alonso when he was at Bayern, and I mean starting 11 players not squad additions or youth. The rest of the squad could adapt too his system and they were a real force with him. But they are faltering this season under Ancelotti. It's not longer a one way road in the Bundesliga. He did adopt one of the strongest teams in the world when he took over, but the squad is largely the same now under Ancelotti. Ancelotti should be miles ahead of the pack if it's down to just the level of players Pep has had the opportunity to work with.

We tend to pick on him because he has been tout as the best manager in football.

Were they a real force under Pep though? Bayern Munich are by far the strongest team in the Bundesliga and are expected to win their league most years. I understand he was brought in to win the champions league which he didn't do but the previous manager did. Guardiola is a good manager but he is under pressure now and teams won't be frightened playing against Man City.

 

[Shadydan]

He is being criticized for his attitude and failure to adapt to the demands of the EPL, I understand that.

But at the end of the day this is football and the points matter more than anything. And that's just a measly 3 away from us, whilst managing to stay in the CL.

Not really no, progression is what matters in football, points are largely a way of papering over the cracks. Man City have a lot of deficiencies in their team some to do with Guardiola and some not but the reality is that Man City aren't developing they're in fact regressing which isn't what Pep was bought in for.

 

[sparx100]

He has a philosophy, the team cannot adopt to it and he is too stubborn to change it either.

He has made a fucking howler of a decision in bringing Bravo in and is getting to see the full effect of that decision.

Lets be fair to him. Brand new league and completely different style of football. It will take him some time to adapt.

He had a chance in the summer to address areas of concern. He did naff all with the defence apart from bring in Stones who has no experience and made the decision to get rid of Hart. I would say neither of those decisions have worked.

Aguero is not his type of striker. He wants an all action striker whilo gets involved. Aguero coem alive in the final third but i get the feeling Pep wants more, so that has brought what the media have reported as a frosty relationship between the two.

You have to give him time but you woukd hope that he learns from the mistakes he is making. Needs a season to acclimatise and then the summer to start rebuilding.

 

[nailsy]

Yes I agree with you, but the reason for that is that Man City did not plan ahead for his arrival even though it was a 6 year process? The Club is the reason he has to now go and buy the players he needs, who can learn his philosophy and implement it on the pitch week in and week out. The squad is aging, again something out of Pep's control.

Poch had to do something similar with our squad when he arrived, however I doubt Pep will employ the same scouting tactics as we did to land Alli, Dier, Wimmer, Alder etc. It will seem like he is throwing money at the problem, and in reality he is. But that's not entirely his fault.

He made a big mistake in sending Hart out on loan and bringing in Bravo, Which in due time I feel he will have to acknowledge to his fans and to Hart, because I think Hart has the ability to learn his philosophy if given the chance.

But all in all I don't think he has done to shabby for his first season in the World's hardest league. Especially given the squad he has inherited unlike his previous clubs which needed minor tinkering, he now faces a total rebuild and that is something totally new to Pep.

They didn't plan ahead for his arrival? How many managers get that luxury? And they did plan for his arrival, they announced his taking over while the previous manager was still there and they were getting his OK on transfers while Pellegrini was still trying to do his job. He's made a few decisions in the transfer market that haven't worked out for him. Bravo looks flimsy, while Stones looks flaky. Sane is a player with loads of potential, but hasn't made an immediate impact - mark him as one for the future, and Gundogans looked good when fit, but hasn't been fit for long enough. The kid they've signed from Brazil could be another good player as well, but will he come in and play much this season?

He's obviously still a good manager, but he does seem to be over complicating things with players playing out of their natural positions. He's also made a rod for his own back by saying he won't change his philosophy as managers know how he's going to play and they can press the centre backs and GK to create problems.

 

[nailsy]

He is being criticized for his attitude and failure to adapt to the demands of the EPL, I understand that.

But at the end of the day this is football and the points matter more than anything. And that's just a measly 3 away from us, whilst managing to stay in the CL.

If we were top that wouldn't be an issue to anyone, but they are 10 points behind the league leaders and by his own admission out of the title race by mid-January which very few people were expecting. The fact that they seem to be getting worse rather than better - four defeats in their last ten - is also why he's getting stick now. They'll improve, but it's obviously going to take a bit of time to get them playing like he wants.

 

[spursfan77]

He has a philosophy, the team cannot adopt to it and he is too stubborn to change it either.

He has made a fucking howler of a decision in bringing Bravo in and is getting to see the full effect of that decision.

Lets be fair to him. Brand new league and completely different style of football. It will take him some time to adapt.

He had a chance in the summer to address areas of concern. He did naff all with the defence apart from bring in Stones who has no experience and made the decision to get rid of Hart. I would say neither of those decisions have worked.

Aguero is not his type of striker. He wants an all action striker whilo gets involved. Aguero coem alive in the final third but i get the feeling Pep wants more, so that has brought what the media have reported as a frosty relationship between the two.

You have to give him time but you woukd hope that he learns from the mistakes he is making. Needs a season to acclimatise and then the summer to start rebuilding.

The thing was though, he must have watched the league for the last 10 years, he must have been told numerous times by people both here and abroad before he joined that it was much more different to the leagues he's previously managed in. Unless of course there is complete arrogance in those countries as to how difficult/good the Premier League actually is, just because English teams haven't won the European Cup every year and the Spanish and German teams have. Instead of looking at it from the other side and said that the teams in those countries have done better because their domestic competitions aren't as competitive from the club in 20th to the club in 1st. I suspect its the latter.

 

[spursfan77]

His problem is also that he has inherited a squad of players that are all pretty much earning over £100,000 a week, and aren't young any more. Where's the motivation for those players to knuckle down and do what the new manager wants, especially where they've still got a while left on those contracts.

Its not like Poch, who has a young hungry squad that hasn't won anything and who's players are on comparatively less money with their careers ahead of them.

They did start in the summer signing players who were much younger (e.g. Sane, Zinchenko and Gabriel Jesus) and I suspect they will do the same again this summer but they will need to identify defenders and central midfielders this time, some with experience of playing in this country. OR he should just give some of their young players a chance who are already there, they've a good academy, maybe he should give those players a chance.....but he won't.

 

[rossdapep]

Were they a real force under Pep though? Bayern Munich are by far the strongest team in the Bundesliga and are expected to win their league most years. I understand he was brought in to win the champions league which he didn't do but the previous manager did. Guardiola is a good manager but he is under pressure now and teams won't be frightened playing against Man City.

Well, considering no other team got a look in whilst he was there then you'd have to say that they were. In the seasons prior to his arrival Dortmund had knocked Bayern off of their perch twice with Bayern finally getting one up on Klopp's Dortmund in Heynckes' final season. Every single preseason Pep was there it was hyped up to be a battle between Bayern and Dortmund in the race for the title and every single time Bayern made it a complete and utter cakewalk. You can discuss this all day long but the fact remains, Pep's Bayern were a force and the final standings attain to that. (The Bundesliga isn't as some people make out).

People also state that he had it easy at Barca yet completely ignore the fact that he inherited a squad of players there who were more interested in partying and showboating (Ronaldinho, Deco & Eto'o), yet he was able to identify that and build a competitive squad whilst promoting youth. If he was a fraud he wouldn't have been able to envision that surely?

There's so many people trying to discredit it him at the moment, and I'm sorry but it's ludicrous. We live in a world where we are always trying to take away credit from others and bring people down a peg or two.

He's an excellent coach who is having the biggest setback in his managerial career. He has certainly ballsed up on some situations but I believe he will put it right by next season.

 

[alfie103]

Well, considering no other team got a look in whilst he was there then you'd have to say that they were. In the seasons prior to his arrival Dortmund had knocked Bayern off of their perch twice with Bayern finally getting one up on Klopp's Dortmund in Heynckes' final season. Every single preseason Pep was there it was hyped up to be a battle between Bayern and Dortmund in the race for the title and every single time Bayern made it a complete and utter cakewalk. You can discuss this all day long but the fact remains, Pep's Bayern were a force and the final standings attain to that. (The Bundesliga isn't as some people make out).

People also state that he had it easy at Barca yet completely ignore the fact that he inherited a squad of players there who were more interested in partying and showboating (Ronaldinho, Deco & Eto'o), yet he was able to identify that and build a competitive squad whilst promoting youth. If he was a fraud he wouldn't have been able to envision that surely?

There's so many people trying to discredit it him at the moment, and I'm sorry but it's ludicrous. We live in a world where we are always trying to take away credit from others and bring people down a peg or two.

He's an excellent coach who is having the biggest setback in his managerial career. He has certainly ballsed up on some situations but I believe he will put it right by next season.

I meant that Bayern weren't as impressive in Europe, which I think they would judge him on. Most managers would be expected to win the league considering the financial clout and pulling power of Bayern in Germany against the other clubs. At Barcelona, it helped that he had Messi, Xavi, Iniesta and a whole host of superb players in that competitive squad and could buy whatever player he needed when he didn't have them in his squad.

No one has said he was a fraud and obviously knows his stuff but I think a world class manager should be able to adapt to different circumstances and be able to work with what he has got.

 

[Shadydan]

You could argue that he actually took Bayern backwards a little from Heynckes' team.

 

[rossdapep]

I meant that Bayern weren't as impressive in Europe, which I think they would judge him on. Most managers would be expected to win the league considering the financial clout and pulling power of Bayern in Germany against the other clubs. At Barcelona, it helped that he had Messi, Xavi, Iniesta and a whole host of superb players in that competitive squad and could buy whatever player he needed when he didn't have them in his squad.

No one has said he was a fraud and obviously knows his stuff but I think a world class manager should be able to adapt to different circumstances and be able to work with what he has got.

I agree, however sometimes it takes a little more than that. Like a player, a manager always has a difficult period where he struggles to impose his style on the team or takes time to adapt to new surroundings.

My apologies, I wasn't singling you out and saying you were calling him a fraud, it was mainly a general feeling that I get from a lot of people. I've definitely heard people calling him this. If it was true he would have been found out at Barca as I'm sure the players wouldn't have responded to him and they still had to fight and overcome Mourinho & Ronaldo's Madrid - who some say are better than Pep & Messi respectively.

It's worth noting that Heynckes' Bayern did lose to Chelsea in the final a year prior to that and many were saying he was a failure too. I think sometimes we need to wait until a manager's tenure finishes before people start calling them out.

In twenty years time people will remember the Barca side that Pep had and will be saying it's one of the best that they have ever seen, that surely counts for something?

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

I meant that Bayern weren't as impressive in Europe, which I think they would judge him on. Most managers would be expected to win the league considering the financial clout and pulling power of Bayern in Germany against the other clubs. At Barcelona, it helped that he had Messi, Xavi, Iniesta and a whole host of superb players in that competitive squad and could buy whatever player he needed when he didn't have them in his squad.

No one has said he was a fraud and obviously knows his stuff but I think a world class manager should be able to adapt to different circumstances and be able to work with what he has got.

He made it too the Semi finals in all three of his seasons? How is that not impressive? It might not be winning the competition but it's damn close.

 

[alfie103]

He made it too the Semi finals in all three of his seasons? How is that not impressive? It might not be winning the competition but it's damn close.

Well considering the players they have had at their disposal and the size of the club, I would think semi finals is about par. For me, they are the third biggest club in Europe.

 

[alfie103]

I agree, however sometimes it takes a little more than that. Like a player, a manager always has a difficult period where he struggles to impose his style on the team or takes time to adapt to new surroundings.

My apologies, I wasn't singling you out and saying you were calling him a fraud, it was mainly a general feeling that I get from a lot of people. I've definitely heard people calling him this. If it was true he would have been found out at Barca as I'm sure the players wouldn't have responded to him and they still had to fight and overcome Mourinho & Ronaldo's Madrid - who some say are better than Pep & Messi respectively.

It's worth noting that Heynckes' Bayern did lose to Chelsea in the final a year prior to that and many were saying he was a failure too. I think sometimes we need to wait until a manager's tenure finishes before people start calling them out.

In twenty years time people will remember the Barca side that Pep had and will be saying it's one of the best that they have ever seen, that surely counts for something?

No need to apologise, you've done nothing wrong. You don't win what he has without being a good manager but I think he does need to change his style of play and refusing to is very silly in my opinion.

 

[Donki]

It's a case of not having a Plan B with Pep, and he is seemingly unwilling to try. Having watched the Everton game it's pretty clear the team either don't understand what Pep wants or they can't be arsed to put a shift in. A bit like our style of play under AVB.

Look no doubt hes a good coach but this will be the biggest test of his career and he has IMO underestimated the strength of say the top 10 teams in the Premiership.

Poch himself said that there is still a thinking in mainland Europe that the English league is technically and tactically inferior to say Spain or Germany. I think Pep is starting to see that's a load of horseshit. And do top it off of course the intensity and speed of the game here is a big step up.

 

[VertongHen]

Pep Guardiola was discussing Man City's recent woes in the PL in an interview. In the interview he said;

"In football, like basketball or tennis, it is about putting the ball into the net which we have been struggling with recently."

Sounds like Pep is a great tennis player

 

[Shadydan]

It's a case of not having a Plan B with Pep, and he is seemingly unwilling to try. Having watched the Everton game it's pretty clear the team either don't understand what Pep wants or they can't be arsed to put a shift in. A bit like our style of play under AVB.

Look no doubt hes a good coach but this will be the biggest test of his career and he has IMO underestimated the strength of say the top 10 teams in the Premiership.

Poch himself said that there is still a thinking in mainland Europe that the English league is technically and tactically inferior to say Spain or Germany. I think Pep is starting to see that's a load of horseshit. And do top it off of course the intensity and speed of the game here is a big step up.

I was surprised when he said that he didn't think that the Premiership wasn't as intense as the Bundesliga or La Liga.

http://www.espnfc.com/manchester-ci...ague-not-more-intense-than-la-liga-bundesliga