Harry Redknapp; Marmite man

Discussion in 'Columns' started by JimmyG2, Feb 7, 2011.

  • by JimmyG2, Feb 7, 2011 at 10:40 AM
  • JimmyG2

    JimmyG2 SC Supporter

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    Is Harry a muppet for not bringing on Pavlyuchenko and Kranjcar earlier against Bolton and indeed earlier on in the season? Or is he a genius for bringing them on when he did and winning the game when he did? I posed this question on the match thread and it is difficult to answer.

    Opinions are becoming more polarised on Spurs Community about Harry as a football manger in general and as Spurs manager in particular. Harry Redknapp the new Marmite. You either love him or hate him; you are either a 'In Harry we trust' man or increasingly a 'Harry out' man.

    Personally I love Harry but I don't actually like him. I acknowledge our debt to him but I'm hostile to the idea that he 'saved' us. He certainly helped us dig ourselves out of a hole but we were a rising team before he came and Ramos was the temporary blip. Even Juande took us to the Carling Cup final and victory over Chelsea.

    I love Harry for his attitude to the game: the emphasis on attack; the delight in classy footballers; his dignity in defeat, and victory; his loyalty to players. He is a good fit for Spurs and came in at the right time and inherited a good squad. His down to earth attitude and the fact that he wasn't Ramos helped a remarkable turn round which has seen us improving in every way over an 18 month period.

    My attitude is complicated by the fact that as a result of following Spurs for many years I have come to value stability in both managers and players. You cannot build a team with constant changes of either. So even if we were to go out to AC Milan and not secure top four I believe that Harry should not be sacrificed on the altar of success but see out his contract.

    Harry does himself no favours by his constant courting of the press and his desire to give good quotes at every opportunity. Some interpret this an aspect of his honesty. However this is mainly about Harry and has little value for Spurs.

    On many occasions I wish that he had kept his mouth firmly closed. Training ground leaks about players out of hours habits, poor traing and fitness, or language skills are distateful to me as little evidence is ever produced to support tham. They remain rumours.

    Some of his comments are crass and reveal an insensitive attitude to players and fans. He reveals himself as an old fashioned, conservative man, out of touch with modern times and at times causes me to question his famed 'man management' skills.

    However as many would say it seems to be working. We are in the latter stages of the Champions' league and contesting a top four place for the second season running. What's not to like? Harry's attitudes and opinions are irrelevant even if it causes an underlying resentment which may come back to haunt him when the going gets tough as it will certainly do as the season progresses.

    The treatment of Pavlyuchenko and Kranjcar seems to have focussed the debate. Pavlyuchenko is statistically our best striker in the Premiership and Piennar is not demonstrably a better player than Kranjcar particularly after Nico’s match winner at Bolton. A cameo of sheer class which as they say is permanent.

    Harry's sniffy reference to 'Super Pav', devalues both the player and the fans, like me, who think that he should be given more time and should lead the line, perhaps with Kranjcar in support at Sunderland. This is based not on constant contact with the players on the training ground which clearly I don't have but simply on watching the games and applying the experience of many years to the performances of the players.

    I like 'Tottenham' style players and think that Crouch is as square a peg as Bent. He tends to make us play in style which cuts out the midfield which is our strength and playing through the middle is part of our tradition. I'm an old man, I like tradition. Whether it's the fault of Crouch doesn't really matter. 'He gives us something different' is not true if he plays frequently or for too long. Loyalty like many virtues can be overdone.

    So in the end it boils down to: 'Harry is doing a great job: get off his back': or 'Harry has done a great job but his tactical shortcomings and his failure to make best use of the squad show that we have reached the end of the road with Harry'

    Toast anyone? Do you want Marmite with that?
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Discussion in 'Columns' started by JimmyG2, Feb 7, 2011.

  1. lifeof...
    nice read, but though your post, you actually prove it aint marmite for you, and i suspect most. in a nut shell, he is a good manager, not great. Like every single living organism, he has his strengths and his weaknesses
  2. Freddiehotspur
    With marmite thanks. He's the best thing that's happened since sliced bread. I agree with some of his shortcomings though, such as playing some players out of position or keeping with Crouch in home games in which we should dominate play. But i also think he recognizes this himself, as he describes crouch as something different, an outlet and his defensive qualities. And to be honest it's been working wonderfully in Europe this far, and i have no doubt that it will next week as well.

    As injuries have been taking it's toll, he's becoming a bit more defensive in his organisation, maybe afraid to lose it is? And working against Samba at Blackburn and against Davies at Bolton he might think that his defense is too weak on its own. I think it's incredible that we won at Blackburn, as we saw a defense that was all over the place, a midfield that was over-run, and I think Crouch was pivotal for the 3 points there.

    With the current strikeforce i don't believe we will snatch the 4th place this season, but as long as we grind out results like at Blackburn, we might still be going towards a tense end of season. And I'm not going to ask Harry to leave the club for doing that to us, even though the disappointment will be immense in the end.
  3. 2bearis2do
    What an excellent post JimmyG2 - you've crystalized the thoughts of the two bitching parties that enjoy the Spurs Community site so much in one article. Brilliant.

    Without wishing to flog my dead horse. I think Harry has done a great job - but feel he could and should have done better with the squad that we have. I don't feel as though we have built on last season's success or become a better team since.

    But I will remain 100% behind him despite my criticisms, as I have always said he needs 3 seasons behind him before he is judged. But that time of judgement is not far away and I feel Levy will be making the same critical analysis at the end of the season.

    One thing that is becoming increasingly apparent in the Levy:Harry relationship is that they are no longer singing from the same song sheet and this has become frustratingly obvious during the transfer windows. Lets be absolutely clear here, and this is backed up by ITK knowledge from a very involved source...

    Levy signed VdV - not Harry. (who had no clue about it until the last minute and simply said yes to Levy's phone call).
    Harry was not fussed if Bale moved on or not this time last year.

    But Harry will take the praise on both fronts. He can flip his opinion in the blink of an eye and is adored by the press. And I think this has irked Levy enormously, coupled with the fact that Harry has no long term squad/team plan. (Based, I guess, on him having one eye on the England job - his dream). Harry's transfer approach is scatter gun and old school at best.

    Levy, on the other hand does have the long term interests of the club at heart and this was hugely evident with the transfer policy of Commoli (direct and knows what he wants - with a few bad buys in the bargain). Our excellent team at present, is predominantly born from Commoli. Levy will no doubt be reviewing this strategy in the summer too.

    I'll put my hand up and say I had a big hissy fit post Jolgate. The treatment of Jol and Commoli's inability to get the final players required to complete Jol's team got my back up big time. But now I feel we have gone full circle.

    We are a couple of players short of being a fantastic team - and yet, I don't feel that Harry knows how to complete the puzzle - nor, I fear, does Levy.

    Harry will continue to try and achieve all he can for Spurs in the coming months and there is no doubt that he will give 110% and for that he deserves all our support, though we are of course allowed to criticise him too.

    But ultimately it is in Levy I trust and not Harry.
  4. ethanedwards
    Great post Jimmy, agree the Super Pav comment, was not Harry's finest moment.
    Will forgive his shortcomings if he is our lucky general.
  5. grittyspur1
    Good read and interesting points, but it would be unfair to judge 'Arry until May. There's still a lot of football to be played and our talented squad has been hampered by injuries this season. COYS!!!!
  6. pistolP
    One word, 'Special One'.
  7. Pauleta01
    I must be missing a trick, as not one of the marmite brigade have really put forward a justifiable case against Harry. The challenges against Harry lack substance, yes he dithered over a striker in the January window but that was because there was genuinely not too many options, and the options that did arise were not realistic (if we were sitting with a 35m striker now with a dubious track record and an injury that will keep him out till April I am sure people would be saying Harry has lot the plot for that also). For those who criticize Harry, I am not going to give you the usual "you are f@?**ng insane response." But what I will say, was that when I went to the Inter Milan game at White Hart Lane recently, it took me back to how I felt about football as a kid, when my Dad first took me to Spurs to see the team in 1987 (best Spurs team to not win anything). The pleasure and swiftness and openness of our football that night and at stages this season is the best I have seen at Spurs. All this means that in my opinion Harry has not only delivered the success we have been craving, but in a style we have pretended was the Spurs way for the past 20 years that has not been present at all. Harry has put the glory, glory back in Tottenham Hotspur, to the point the media have talked about us in a way that I have not seen since the Gazza & Lineker side in 1991. If you can find fault in that then you can find fault in anything, in fact those finding fault right now, I really struggle to fathom what you want from supporting Spurs.

    Yes I want to win the league, but we don't have the cash to buy the title ala City, we do not want to become Leeds mk2. I am delighted with the progress made, and I really feel we have the version of the club back that made me fall in love with the game more than 20 years ago, and that if we push on to challenge for the title we would have done it the right way and playing with a style that none of the others can match.

    Harry was nippy winger himself by all accounts and no one can deny that this team operates in his image. Some people do not realise how good things are till its gone and I fear this will the case when Harry ultimately leaves.

    It is also a myth that Harry is just a wheeler and dealer, you only have to see some of his interviews (especially alongside his son Jamie) to realize that he loves the game, and is a student of all aspects of it. The fact he does not say this with a portuguese accent means he is regarded as a barrow boy !!! This is the last time I read any more "is Harry the right man for the job" type posts as quite honestly to question it is crazy !!!
  8. chadders
    I agree but is he just angering our Russian into a scoring spree again? Same thing happened last season, he'll be gone in January, had featured even less. Got a chance and with determination he went on a scoring spree so hot it made it difficult to drop him and then he's a Spurs player for life, this season the odd goal here and there hasn't made up for his lack of work rate however Crouchy and Defoe haven't scored the goals they do defend from the front. This is more visible when we play one upfront as the striker often has to cut out either full back if the ball is played short from the keeper or across the back.

    Is the Super Pav a dig at the fans who are happy to slag off our other strikers for not hitting the net but continue to bellow out Super Super Pav even after his poorest performances, the job they are paid to do amongst working hard for the team, it could well be.

    I'd like to add I am a Pav fan and I don't really wish for Crouchy in our lineup, one thing I have been ranting about is we need to play 442 and I will always say that. For me a 442 with Pav and Defoe with the creativity behind them there is no reason why we couldnt score 2 or 3 most weeks.

    Harry is marmite for me and I love marmite, I just think he's a bit tiresome sometimes with his continuous press flirtation and his inability to rotate the squad successfully. The guy is on the road at 4am most days to get to training... :bowdown:
  9. VDV :)
    two words:wink:
  10. alamo
    That's two words. :up:

    Edit: VDV beat me to it :grin:
  11. michaelden
    a scoring spree? He needs to play to score and Harry isn't playing him.

    Crouch & Defoe defend from the front? Really! They do no more than Pav. In fact Crouch is so slow there is no need to rush a pass when he lurches in your direction cos you still have about a minute to compose yourself and find a free team mate. Defoe has the pace but does no more than Pav from the front defensively and even less offensively. The less said about Crouch's offensive the better.

    Pav's poorest performance is alongside Crouch's best, so how can the Super Pav jibe be anything but Harry trying to jusitify his blatant favouritism.

    Harry plainly is just coddling his buddies until he gets the England job. He should bugger off now and we should get in someone with the desire to stay and build something special.
  12. frosteye
    How anyone can knock Harry at this stage baffles me. Yes, he has made a few mistakes and we all think sometimes we can do a better job.

    What do people want?

    Should be have played Niko when he was fat and Bale was on fire? Coudl of seen it now, Bale tearing people a new arse and then Harry drops him for a couple of games for Niko, he does nothing and we people are all of a sudden on Harry, calling him mental and most likely saying he doesnt give youth a chance!

    They say stick with a winning team and I agree with it. Sure, we probably could of roated a little bit more but if we had a lost (like at Bolton when we started with Wilson, Sandro and Niko) people would be all over Harry again. He really is damned if he does and damned if he dont.

    I actually rate Niko and I hope he stays and it works out for him. He has just had a shocker that he was unfit at the start of the season and Bale was on fire. He cant play right and Modric has been undroppable.

    People on here seem obsessed with either blooding youngsters or spending £30m on some one they heard of once on TV.

    I think some people wont be happy until Harry starts the mascot called Jose Manuel Dominguez up front after seeing him toe punt a pea roller past Gomes in the warm up......
  13. HotspurFC1950
    We won.

    We are enjoying good times.

    Speaks for itself.

    HR = Genius.
  14. avonspurs
    Good article, but I dont see it as a 'marmite' issue (btw, yuck, f-ing marmite: hate it!!). For me, I've never 'loved' or 'loathed' HR - I see him making good decisions and making equally poor decisions but that is management: he is paid to make the decisions and his job with us will be hailed or fall based on those decisions.

    I agree to some degree that he has had the best squad that a Spurs manager has had for a long long time and, also, that he has also been fortunate in a lot of a situations ("rather be a lucky manager than a good one"!!!). He has made good decisions and won games that, I believe, other managers would have lost. However, he has also made poor decisions that, no doubt, has cost us points or will cost us points but he is there to make decisions in the moment, not look at it with hindsight which most of us do.

    What I cannot stand is the vitriol directed at him. For all his limitations (and like most people, he has them), he has, through his decisions/man-management/luck/whatever, got us into 4th, into the second stage of the CL and tied for 4th again. So why the vitirol? Because of this 'notion' that he picks his favourites? I tend to find the people who state this as a cause are the same individuals who then put forward their own 'favourites' as ones who should be playing.

    To see it from their side, however, HR can come across in his press snippets as a bit self-centred (all the good decisions are his, none of the bad ones are) which does annoy me slightly.

    To sum up, I do look around and see what better manager is there that could do what he has currently done and I cant see the answer so, currently, I say stick with him and, although not actively seeking a replacement, if a top-notch manager became available (Mourinho!) we should go for it (that will come back to bite me in the arse!)
  15. WhiteHart4Ever
    Agreed. Best we've had for a very, very long time.
  16. midspur
    Actually that's 4:wink:
  17. Abdoujaparov
    Since 2000 our average final league position is 9th. We're currently in 5th and in the last 16 of the CL. Nuff said.
  18. Spurs_Bear
    Well written JimmyG :clap:

    I'll defend Harry against the numpties on SC who either hold a personal grudge or know zero about the game (even those who combine the two), but he personally pisses me off just as much as the next person.

    I couldn't give a fuck about stats for goals per minute, points per start, stools per shit, or sperm per ejaculation. What matters to me is the points on the board, and we have more than at this time last year don't we?

    We also have lost 1 game in 14, and have gained more points in that number of games than everyone except Man United, and for people that don't know that's the team that are winning the league.

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