Harry Redknapp; Marmite man

Discussion in 'Columns' started by JimmyG2, Feb 7, 2011.

  • by JimmyG2, Feb 7, 2011 at 10:40 AM
  • JimmyG2

    JimmyG2 SC Supporter

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    Is Harry a muppet for not bringing on Pavlyuchenko and Kranjcar earlier against Bolton and indeed earlier on in the season? Or is he a genius for bringing them on when he did and winning the game when he did? I posed this question on the match thread and it is difficult to answer.

    Opinions are becoming more polarised on Spurs Community about Harry as a football manger in general and as Spurs manager in particular. Harry Redknapp the new Marmite. You either love him or hate him; you are either a 'In Harry we trust' man or increasingly a 'Harry out' man.

    Personally I love Harry but I don't actually like him. I acknowledge our debt to him but I'm hostile to the idea that he 'saved' us. He certainly helped us dig ourselves out of a hole but we were a rising team before he came and Ramos was the temporary blip. Even Juande took us to the Carling Cup final and victory over Chelsea.

    I love Harry for his attitude to the game: the emphasis on attack; the delight in classy footballers; his dignity in defeat, and victory; his loyalty to players. He is a good fit for Spurs and came in at the right time and inherited a good squad. His down to earth attitude and the fact that he wasn't Ramos helped a remarkable turn round which has seen us improving in every way over an 18 month period.

    My attitude is complicated by the fact that as a result of following Spurs for many years I have come to value stability in both managers and players. You cannot build a team with constant changes of either. So even if we were to go out to AC Milan and not secure top four I believe that Harry should not be sacrificed on the altar of success but see out his contract.

    Harry does himself no favours by his constant courting of the press and his desire to give good quotes at every opportunity. Some interpret this an aspect of his honesty. However this is mainly about Harry and has little value for Spurs.

    On many occasions I wish that he had kept his mouth firmly closed. Training ground leaks about players out of hours habits, poor traing and fitness, or language skills are distateful to me as little evidence is ever produced to support tham. They remain rumours.

    Some of his comments are crass and reveal an insensitive attitude to players and fans. He reveals himself as an old fashioned, conservative man, out of touch with modern times and at times causes me to question his famed 'man management' skills.

    However as many would say it seems to be working. We are in the latter stages of the Champions' league and contesting a top four place for the second season running. What's not to like? Harry's attitudes and opinions are irrelevant even if it causes an underlying resentment which may come back to haunt him when the going gets tough as it will certainly do as the season progresses.

    The treatment of Pavlyuchenko and Kranjcar seems to have focussed the debate. Pavlyuchenko is statistically our best striker in the Premiership and Piennar is not demonstrably a better player than Kranjcar particularly after Nico’s match winner at Bolton. A cameo of sheer class which as they say is permanent.

    Harry's sniffy reference to 'Super Pav', devalues both the player and the fans, like me, who think that he should be given more time and should lead the line, perhaps with Kranjcar in support at Sunderland. This is based not on constant contact with the players on the training ground which clearly I don't have but simply on watching the games and applying the experience of many years to the performances of the players.

    I like 'Tottenham' style players and think that Crouch is as square a peg as Bent. He tends to make us play in style which cuts out the midfield which is our strength and playing through the middle is part of our tradition. I'm an old man, I like tradition. Whether it's the fault of Crouch doesn't really matter. 'He gives us something different' is not true if he plays frequently or for too long. Loyalty like many virtues can be overdone.

    So in the end it boils down to: 'Harry is doing a great job: get off his back': or 'Harry has done a great job but his tactical shortcomings and his failure to make best use of the squad show that we have reached the end of the road with Harry'

    Toast anyone? Do you want Marmite with that?
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Discussion in 'Columns' started by JimmyG2, Feb 7, 2011.

  1. millsey
    we need stability.thats what succesfull teams have.harry makes a few mistakes,but not many.if defoe could find his damn scoring boots we would be in a fantastic position.every single manger has there favourites.every manager makes mistakes.look at this weekend.man utd lost to wolves.when we lost there we all went mad.arsenal lost a 4 goal lead!does that make wenger a bad manager!aometimes the players have to stand up and be counted.could someone tell me the last time we had a team like this!im nearly 30 and cant remember a team this good.we can compete with anyone and as long as we keep our players and add one or two top top players in the summer.its an exciting time and sure,maybe a morinho will do even better,but u take huge risk in that.in paying staff off,getting new staff,new manager has his favourites,falls out with a few players ect.just look how ramos set us back.if we still had jol 4 years on we would be where we are now i believe.lets all get behind this team and enjoy it.blimey if we can win say 5 in a row,who says we wont be second in the league this time next month!come on boys!
  2. guate
    Living over here in Guatemala there's no marmite in the shops, so my friends and family usually bring me back large jars of the stuff whenever they can.
    I really rate 'Arry too
  3. Gilzeanking
    Not Marmite . There is a majority in the middle between Harry genius and Harry out I'd say . Like myself

    Some good stuff from 2Bearistodo . Yes ,I'm not sure Harry and Levy are seeing eye to eye . Harry was initially saying that Spurs had missed a trick not signing a striker in Jan as if he wasn't involved...and now he's saying that he was himself indecisive ...wonder if that was after a chat with Levy ?

    Harry won't be around for ever so it'd be wise of our long term planners to think about who comes next .
  4. millsey
    dont forget only the team winning the league have lost more games than us in the league this year.why people complain i dont know.
  5. chadders
    He's had more of a chance than last season and was almost forced out until he scored something like 8 goals in 5 games but then towards then end of the campaign he faded away. They do defend from the front, Defoe never used to chase down balls passed across the opposition back four, sometimes Pav does then sometimes he doesnt, Crouch is useful defensively when teams pump it into the box.

    I personally hope Pav gets a run of games now, maybe he will, maybe he won't.

    I really cant understand the Harry bashers, he's playing his mates or his signings... he got us fourth regardless of who he played and we are looking good ranking wise this season... I am sure its more luck than judgement though :shrug:
  6. Paxtonite
    Good original post well summarised. There are many who will look at results and where we are in the league and CL and say that its enough said and move on. Pointless debate. I don't agree.

    Redknapp's strengths and weaknesses have been adequately highlighted in the OP. Shoots his mouth off a bit too much perhaps. Even had a childish dig at the fans over "super Pav" but yes he has got us much further than we have been in a long while.

    I think that what frustrates fans the most is that it's not just about where we are in the league for example. It's about where we could be or need to be given so many variables since the bar has been raised at our club i.e. all the teams around us dropping points; our strikers mis-firing or not firing at all; our defensive frailties; the confidence of the players through lack of playing time; the consequence to our playing staff should we miss out on CL qualification at the end of this season etc..

    Redknapp has also been lucky along the way, and i suppose good managers need that. Not selling Bale for example when he was about to but for lack of cover at LB; or injuries forcing him to use Pav towards the end of last season and the latter hitting a rich vein of form.

    Ultimately though i dont think its a marmite thing. Even those that dont agree with him on these boards don't really hate him. I know i don't. I just wish he would do some things just a little differently at times. Problem is teaching an old dog new tricks i guess!
  7. millsey
    i also think that,we dont see the players in training so its not all about what we see on the pitch.if pavs comes in late,doesnt put any effort in,plays crap the week before a game,then how can harry play him?all we see is crouch and moan but im sure if pav was putting in the hard yards,and he cant even be bothered to learn ANY english by the looks of it,then i think he will play more.just a thought
  8. newbie
    Some people talk utter bullshit someone said harry was going to let Bale go no way was he ever going to, Jamie rednapp said ages a go they knew there was one hell of a player there, and he had to replace Mordic and Krank at the time who were not to shabby either. Please lets not make crap up to Make rednapp look bad commenting on Vdv and ITK is all speculation no one know what is really happening you really thing Redanpp will comment on a player who we are bidding for he plays the game when he thinks it suits us.
  9. Boony
    Spot on, I couldnt have said it better myself. Everybody knows Harry traits before he joined.

    I'll ask you one question.... How many players have come out to say they love playing for Harry, against comparison to the ones that dont. No-one says they dont like "playing" for him, they are just gutted they arnt playing.

    He is an excellent man manager and has done wonders, he makes mistakes like anyone, but he will be very hard to replace.
  10. JoeT
    Interesting article. For me, like others on here H.R. annoys me sometimes with his 'interviews', plus they appear so inconsistent you wonder where the hell this guy is coming from.
    As far as the team's performances with him as Manager I really don't think he can be criticized too much. We are currently on a run that is keeping us in touch with the leaders even with our injury situation, and I think he must take at least some of the credit for it.
    His relationship with Levy I can't claim to know anything about (does anybody really know?) But during the transfer window....where I was disappointed that we didn't appear to be in any serious pursuit to strengthen up front...(a debateable issue I know), I tended to loose the faith a little and still today feel that our inaction might cost us down the stretch.
    The current debate over Kranjkar...if one were to have watched him earlier he just didn't justify starting. Whether he should start even now I'm not so certain...until Modric returns probably, but maybe he is a better 'impact' player from the bench?
    Pavyluchenko and Redknapp obviously do not get along, but maybe that's how Redknapp gets the best out of him....by keeping him a bit pissed off. It seems to me that this approach works, as Pav. seems to be a bit spoiled with an 'I'm owed' side to his personality. He - now that he is really whining - appears ready to be started for a productive run in the side. That's also a form of 'man management' i.m.o.
    Harry overall is doing O.K.
  11. kicked
    Like most, i read all the ITKs about all the strikers that had visited and were gonna sign tomorrow...big name signing soon, i promise...etc etc. Now, i'm not knocking them as i am sure they heard something we didn't. However, all the remarks about Levy or Redknapp seem to come from the same agenda. For some reason people seem to know everything that is going on at Spurs and seem to knw how to do things better than the people that are already doing them.
    Redknapp is like Marmite?? You either love him or hate him? Ok, personality wise, yeah, i'll take that. But football wise, no! The Spurs team has not had this type of respect since the 80s. We are currently 5th, joint with Chelsea, a game behind Man City which if they lose against Utd and we win, then win our game in hand over them actually takes us above them. We have a team that we can actually be proud of. Probably the most entertaining team in the EPL (not always for the right reasons though!!) Yeah, he's made mistakes, but who hasn't this season???? Hindsight is a wonderful gift I think!
    We didn't sign a striker, but lets be honest, Liverpool kinda ruined that one for us. Forlan fifn't come to us..and neither did someone else from Spain! Lets be honest here....where would you rather live and play??! The sad thing is, it did come across, media driven, that we looked kinda desperate. Which probably wasn't the case as I am sure Liverpool were aware that Chelsea were gonna bid for Torres and knew it was gonna be big so the Ypped their offer to meet Ajax valuation of him, then found out how much Chelsea were gonna pay them and though, what the hell, we'll buy Caroll as well. We pay 25mil, technically, Suarez and Caroll have cost £10mill between them...not bad business!
    Again. its all heresay and hindsight. Personally, i think all at Spurs are doing a super job. Its actually not been too bad being a Spurs fan for the last 2 years as for the first time in ages, we are being taken a lot more seriously!
  12. guate
    Thank the Lord there are people on here like "kicked" that bring some common sense to the forum as opposed to all the prawn sandwich, immediate success brigade that gibber on incessantly about everything that is negative
  13. millsey
    well said sir.was thinking the same.nothing like 2 wins in a row to keep the anti harry brigade quite!
  14. Sweetsman
    The one thing about Harry's team is that we don't lose games that we used to and I think his choice of some players is that, despite being older, they bring some steel to the team. I do wonder at his treatment of Pav, but Hiddink also got frustrated with him; Pav needs games, but he needs to impose himself.
  15. sherbornespurs
    At last: The first constructive, balanced, well debated thread regarding our 'Arry.

    Only 3 pages thus far, but well done to everyone who's contributed, some of the knee-jerk comments after the Bolton game (plus those that were calculated or agenda driven) had me fuming on Saturday evening.
  16. KenilworthSpur
    It appears that when HR gets the England job (hopefully later rather than sooner), people are suggesting Jose Mourinho as a possible replacement. In some cases, there are a number of fans wanting him in now. Surely people would rather want the style of football we are playing now to anything that Mourinho has done in this country. I think sometimes like most things, you don't appreciate what you have until its gone. Do we honestly believe that Mourinho would keep playing with 2 wingers and going for it every game, I doubt it very much. We all saw from his Chelsea days that it was a win and it didn't matter how. He went on about us parking the bus, but only because his boring team couldn't break us down.

    Spurs are playing the best football I have seen in my lifetime and yes sometimes it leaves us open and we get punished, but give me that anyday rather than setting up not to lose every game.

    In Harry I trust.
  17. JimmyG2
    Yes I agree . The overblown reactions lately were what made me pose the dilemma. The ' Marmite' label was just a journalistic device to catch the attention.

    Generally, so far, there is clearly overwhelming support for Harry, quite rightly, but an undercurrent of disatisfaction, which I share, of the way he has handled the squad at times.

    There is not a serious 'Harry out' faction except the lunatic fringe who don't know when they are well off. Us 'oldies' certainly do.

    But support is always fragile and two or three losses will soon bring out the hostility towards Harry's hostages to fortune from his press performances and lack of rotation.

    The question arises as to why a football manager, all of whom hang by a thin thread, except Sir Alex, would pick their mates or favourites if they didn't think they would be the most effective selection.

    You might disagree with Harry but to impugn his motives is silly.

    Whether Harry can take us any further remains to be seen.
  18. pistolP
  19. pistolP
  20. birdm
    He has his good and bad points but you can't argue with his progress, he has delivered - fact.

    Only area i worry is his lack of buying knowledge, the last window was dissapointing and know one knows whose fault it was, Levy's, Harry's or players / clubs demanding too much.

    Liverpool and Chelsea had a panic and paid over the odds for players, perhaps we did the right thing and there is a Worldclass striker coming in the summer.

    When i think of Harry leaving us i can't think of anyone apart from the special one who could improve on him. Wouldn't want another non English speaking manager so that rules out 95%, and no British managers are better. People winge about he should keep his mouth shut. I like us in the news, i support the club so the more i know about what is happening the better. When Ramos was in charge we heard nothing, Grass always seems greener, lets get beind Harry.

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