Homegrown - What's the low down?

[Lilbaz]

No - from the European competition perspective - 4 slots are reserved for players coming from the team's academy, and 4 additional slots are reserved for players coming through any academy in the FA.

The FA has a vested interest in developing players for the national teams. A player like Dier has been developed by the FA via various England youth squads, despite the fact that he grew up in Portugal. Dier should not be eligible for the 4 club-trained spots, but he should be eligible for the FA -trained spot - even more so than Davies, who is eligible for the Wales FA.

No it makes him eligible to play for england. You have to be trained by "clubs in the same league" to qualify as fa trained.
How many players from around the world could claim ancestral visas and then be classed as "fa trained" if they played an international game for that country?
The rules and reasons are pretty clear. Uefa want clubs to invest in their academies.

 

[kr1978]

1) we can have as many (upto 25) or as little as we like for the league, but you can only have upto 17 players who are not home grown
2) being English means nothing...

Last Seasons Squad:

Player --------------------------------Home Grown
1 Gomes, Heurelho Da Silva --------------No
2 Cudicini, Carlo ---------------------------No
3 Friedel, Bradley Howard ----------------No
4 Lloris, Hugo ------------------------------No
5 Kaboul, Younes --------------------------No
6 Gallas, William --------------------------No
7 Adebayor, Emmanuel -------------------No
8 Vertonghen, Jan ------------------------No
9 Assou-Ekotto, Benoit -------------------No
10 Cordiero, Sandro Raniere Guimarae -No
11 Falque, Yago ---------------------------No
12 Sigurdsson, Gylfi Thor ---------------Yes
13 Dempsey, Clinton Drew --------------No
14 Lennon, Aaron -----------------------Yes
15 Walker, Kyle Andrew-----------------Yes
16 Naughton, Kyle ----------------------Yes
17 Dawson, Michael Richard -------------Yes
18 Dembele, Moussa --------------------No
19 Huddlestone, Thomas Andrew ------Yes
20 Parker, Scott Matthew -------------Yes
21 Livermore, Jake Cyril ---------------Yes
22 Jenas, Jermaine Anthony ------------Yes
23 Bale, Gareth Frank ----------------Yes
24 Defoe, Jermain Colin -------------Yes
25 Bentley, David Michael -----------Yes

So next season from that we could still have:
Sigy, Lennon, Walker, Dawson and Bale
With a question mark over Naughton, Hudd, Parker, Livermore and Defoe
and JJ and Bentley going

Youngsters that could come in
Townsend, Rose, Smith, Stephen Culker, Ryan Mason, Jonathan Obika and maybe Grant Hall depending on what site you look at for his birthday...

Carroll still doesnt need to be inculed in this years 25 man squad

Looking at that squad it’s unbelievable how much stronger we are in just a few short years

 

['O Zio]

Given that the whole point is to benefit the national team, I think the rules should be amended so that anyone who has British nationality before the age of 18 automatically counts as home-grown, even if they spend a significant amount of time abroad e.g. Dier. It's daft that, for example, Fabregas is considered home grown but Dier isn't even though one is Spanish (or Catalan, but let's not open that can of worms ) and the other is playing for the England national ream. Having the age cutoff prevents it being abused by people who become citizens later on after playing here for years etc.

 

[talkshowhost86]

I miss Simon Dawkins

 

[Lilbaz]

Given that the whole point is to benefit the national team, I think the rules should be amended so that anyone with British nationality automatically counts as home-grown, even if they spend a significant amount of time abroad e.g. Dier. It's daft that, for example, Fabregas is considered home grown but Dier isn't even though one is Spanish (or Catalan, but let's not open that can of worms ) and the other is playing for the England national ream.

It was partly put in place that way for eu freedom of movement laws. Otherwise it wouldn't have been able to be put in place at all.

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

The rules and reasons are pretty clear. Uefa want clubs to invest in their academies.

Yes. We agree here. And this is why UEFA sets aside 4 roster spots for players trained at the Club's academy.

But, UEFA, also sets aside 4 additional spots for players trained in the FA - but at different academies - i.e. these slots are not about players you trained at your academy,. This is to help the various FAs promote their own players to enhance the national team program.

As for the Ancestral visas - I imagine there are not that many who actually play for the new country - and once you play at the senior level you are locked in. I also think those players serve their purpose for the FA - in terms of improving the senior national teams - if they make it that far.

I am just saying - the English FA benefits from Dier's development. The roster spots designed to protect the FA, not the academy spots - should include players with senior caps for that FA. Thats all.

Unlike with Dier - the English FA gets no benefit from Davies - so no reason to include a roster exemption for Swansea (or Cardiff?) trained players on English teams.

 

[Lilbaz]

Yes. We agree here. And this is why UEFA sets aside 4 roster spots for players trained at the Club's academy.

But, UEFA, also sets aside 4 additional spots for players trained in the FA - but at different academies - i.e. these slots are not about players you trained at your academy,. This is to help the various FAs promote their own players to enhance the national team program.

As for the Ancestral visas - I imagine there are not that many who actually play for the new country - and once you play at the senior level you are locked in. I also think those players serve their purpose for the FA - in terms of improving the senior national teams - if they make it that far.

I am just saying - the English FA benefits from Dier's development. The roster spots designed to protect the FA, not the academy spots - should include players with senior caps for that FA. Thats all.

Unlike with Dier - the English FA gets no benefit from Davies - so no reason to include a roster exemption for Swansea (or Cardiff?) trained players on English teams.

As i said the rules are what they are to get around eu freedom of movement laws. That is why nationality was left out as it would seem to be discriminatory.

 

[Lilbaz]

@bat-chain

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/jun/26/race.eu

"All this neglects the key point, however. Fifa's plan will be unworkable because it is illegal under EU law. Freedom of movement and the right to work in any member state form the bedrock of the European Union, and have given millions the chance to work, live and retire in the country of their choice."

 

[wrd]

I'd be interested to know the date we have to register our 25 man squad and whether they're are allowances for before the windows closes abroad. I.e somebody like LLorente could do a job for opening few games before departing.

 

[sausage]

I'd be interested to know the date we have to register our 25 man squad and whether they're are allowances for before the windows closes abroad. I.e somebody like LLorente could do a job for opening few games before departing.

In previous years, it was 31st Aug/1st September.

For some reason my whole thread around player registration was deleted by Mods, so I'm assuming we're not allowed to discuss this kind of thing though?

 

[wrd]

In previous years, it was 31st Aug/1st September.

For some reason my whole thread around player registration was deleted by Mods, so I'm assuming we're not allowed to discuss this kind of thing though?

No Idea I just somebody linked this and went with it.

 

[RichieS]

These are the 28 players listed in the First Team section of tottenhamhotspur.com:

Lloris
Vorm
Gazzaniga

Trippier
Aurier
Walker-Peters (U21, b.1997)
Davies
Rose

Alderweireld
Sánchez
Foyth (U21, b.1998)
Carter-Vickers (U21, b.1997)
Vertonghen

Dier
Wanyama
Dembélé
Winks
Sissoko
Onomah (U21, b.1997)

Moura
Lamela
Eriksen
Alli
Son
Nkoudou

Kane
Llorente
Janssen

There are 18 "foreign" players there, which is one too many for the squad rules. We know we are trying to ship out Janssen but have heard nothing on Nkoudou or Llorente (who, to be fair, are the only other peripheral members of that 18). Martial could replace all 3 of them in one go, as could Zaha to an extent. The added benefit of getting Zaha would be that we could still keep and register one of them (probably Llorente).

I suspect when we were planning our summer business, the departures of Toby and Mousa (both of whom I'd rather keep) were assumed highly likely. Along with loans for Nkoudou and Janssen we'd have had 3 squad spaces freed up and no wages to pay to unregistered players. The expected departures haven't happened yet so we haven't had the room to bring anyone in yet.

NB: This has been done according to PL squad rules. I have a feeling Foyth will have to be registered for the CL.

Looking at that squad it’s unbelievable how much stronger we are in just a few short years

#Levyin

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

Foyth does have to be registered for CL, and Davies is not HG for CL.

 

[andy00900]

Hopefully someone can help me understand the details of signing someone who is 18 but turns 19 in august as the season starts. For example de Ligt is born Aug 12, 1999 (18). If we managed signed him this window would this result in him being homegrown and club trained for the CL?

CL club trained definition:

A "club-trained player" is a player who, between the age of 15 (or the start of the season during which he turns 15) and 21 (or the end of the season during which he turns 21), and irrespective of his nationality and age, has been registered with his current club for a period, continuous or not, of three entire seasons (i.e. a period starting with the first official match of the relevant national championship and ending with the last official match of that relevant national championship) or of 36 months. In the context of this paragraph, the season immediately preceding a player’s 15th birthday may be counted if his birthday is after the last match of the relevant national championship but before or on 30 June (winter championships) or 31 December (summer championships), and the season immediately following his 21st birthday may be counted if his birthday is on or after 1 July (winter championships) or 1 January (summer championships) but before the first match of the relevant national championship.

 

[smallsnc]

Hopefully someone can help me understand the details of signing someone who is 18 but turns 19 in august as the season starts. For example de Ligt is born Aug 12, 1999 (18). If we managed signed him this window would this result in him being homegrown and club trained for the CL?

CL club trained definition:

It would depend on when the 2020/2021 season starts. If it starts on or before Aug 12, 2020 then he would be considered homegrown. If it starts after Aug 12, he would have turned 21 before the start of the competition and he would have only 2 seasons with us before turning 21.

 

[cider spurs]

Love a good carrot, and spuds from the garden. Delicious.

Whoops...This thread isn't about vegetables is it

 

[dtxspurs]

The real problem here is offloading the deadweight right? If we bring in Zaha or Grealish and we offload just from last years squad Llorente, Dembele, Sissoko we'd be fine right? Or is there more than that. Of course I believe GKN and Janssen to be off as well.

 

[mil1lion]

I expect another Premier League club to come in for Llorente. He has a lot to offer teams down the bottom end of the table to mid-table.

I can only see loan offers for N'Koudou and Janssen. Not convinced Sissoko will move on but he had a much better season for us last season so there's a little hope that an offer will come in.

 

[RichieS]

The real problem here is offloading the deadweight right? If we bring in Zaha or Grealish and we offload just from last years squad Llorente, Dembele, Sissoko we'd be fine right? Or is there more than that. Of course I believe GKN and Janssen to be off as well.

See my post above (and the one immediately following it).

 

[andy00900]

The real problem here is offloading the deadweight right? If we bring in Zaha or Grealish and we offload just from last years squad Llorente, Dembele, Sissoko we'd be fine right? Or is there more than that. Of course I believe GKN and Janssen to be off as well.

As far as I can tell this is where we currently stand