I don't know my best team, says boss Tim Sherwood

CrazyHeart

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2013
Messages
2,341
#41
Good four games for AVB alright. Hopefully he'll get the Celtic job someday as well and add another 'top CL team" to his CV and get back to his 86% win rate of Porto again.
Why can't you just wish the man well? It's shameful that the treatment he got here continues after he left! As for Sherwood - I wanted him to succeed, I truly did but he's in charge right now and fucked up our season... what do you have to say about that?
 

rupsmith

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2006
Messages
1,325
#43
Why can't you just wish the man well? It's shameful that the treatment he got here continues after he left! As for Sherwood - I wanted him to succeed, I truly did but he's in charge right now and fucked up our season... what do you have to say about that?
Fcked up our season? How exactly did he do that? We had Bale last year and we are only two points behind where we were last year - and this with a team that he inherited from AVB and which has been ravaged by injury.

He has done a good job.
 

whitesocks

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2014
Messages
2,647
#45
Sorry - I did not mean to reignite the war.
But the results this season suggest that our managers are not exactly world class either.
For all the spite, there is not much to chose between them.

If AVB proves me wrong this season, well good luck to him.
 

14/04/91

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
1,861
#46
I wonder if Eriksen was a signing recommended by Sherwood, I've read something along those lines.

And of course he brought Ade back in.

Oh so our only 2 outstanding players (outfield) are your boys Tim?? I see. Surprised you didn't add Bentaleb to the list & be done with it.
 

davidmatzdorf

Front Page Gadfly
Joined
Jun 7, 2004
Messages
11,296
#48
...As for Sherwood - I wanted him to succeed, I truly did but he's in charge right now and fucked up our season... what do you have to say about that?
Fcked up our season? How exactly did he do that? We had Bale last year and we are only two points behind where we were last year - and this with a team that he inherited from AVB and which has been ravaged by injury
The rewriting of facts and history, based on prejudice and anger, continues apace. Here are some statistics that demonstrate how Sherwood has 'fucked up our season' since AVB left:

AVB:
16 league games
8 wins, 3 draws, 5 losses
27 points
1.69 points/game (64.22 points over a 38 game season)
0.58 goals scored/game
0.81 goals conceded/game
-0.23 goal differential/game

Sherwood:
19 league games
11 wins, 3 draws, 5 losses
1.89 points/game (71.82 points over a 38 game season)
1.44 goals scored/game
1.12 goals conceded/game
+0.32 goal differential/game

Every performance indicator there except goals conceded favours Sherwood. It isn't even close on the most important measure, which is points/game.

This is despite, as rupsmith pointed out, an unmanageable injury list, especially in defence.

Incidentally, although we are 2 points behind last season's pace based on the number of matches played, we are dead-level with last season's points based on matched opposition. We presently have 63 points and 3 games left - we won all 3 corresponding games last season, to give us 72 points.

The most important point for me, as someone who likes to watch attacking football, is that we have scored 11 goals in the past 3 games (and conceded 5). Under AVB, it took our first 13 games before we had scored 11 goals (at which time we had conceded 14).

People have built up such a level of mutually-reinforcing, collective fury at Sherwood that they aren't seeing the actuality.
 

CrazyHeart

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2013
Messages
2,341
#49
The rewriting of facts and history, based on prejudice and anger, continues apace. Here are some statistics that demonstrate how Sherwood has 'fucked up our season' since AVB left:

AVB:
16 league games
8 wins, 3 draws, 5 losses
27 points
1.69 points/game (64.22 points over a 38 game season)
0.58 goals scored/game
0.81 goals conceded/game
-0.23 goal differential/game

Sherwood:
19 league games
11 wins, 3 draws, 5 losses
1.89 points/game (71.82 points over a 38 game season)
1.44 goals scored/game
1.12 goals conceded/game
+0.32 goal differential/game

Every performance indicator there except goals conceded favours Sherwood. It isn't even close on the most important measure, which is points/game.

This is despite, as rupsmith pointed out, an unmanageable injury list, especially in defence.

Incidentally, although we are 2 points behind last season's pace based on the number of matches played, we are dead-level with last season's points based on matched opposition. We presently have 63 points and 3 games left - we won all 3 corresponding games last season, to give us 72 points.

The most important point for me is that we have scored 11 goals in the past 3 games (and conceded 5). Under AVB, it took our first 13 games before we had scored 11 goals (at which time we had conceded 14).

People have built up such a level of mutually-reinforcing, collective fury at Sherwood that they aren't seeing the actuality.
Sure that's much easier to do once you're out of all three cups in spectacular fashion, riding the wave of hard work that was put into a more settled team by AVB. But that's fine - I'm glad you're delighted with the football and player morale Sherwood's brought us. Please be happy for the both of us.
 

CrazyHeart

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2013
Messages
2,341
#50
Sorry - I did not mean to reignite the war.
But the results this season suggest that our managers are not exactly world class either.
For all the spite, there is not much to chose between them.

If AVB proves me wrong this season, well good luck to him.
I think it's been pretty well proven that not letting AVB finish out the season and putting this youth coach with delusions of grandeur in charge both here and at Zenit was a colossal mistake.
 

rupsmith

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2006
Messages
1,325
#51
The rewriting of facts and history, based on prejudice and anger, continues apace. Here are some statistics that demonstrate how Sherwood has 'fucked up our season' since AVB left:

AVB:
16 league games
8 wins, 3 draws, 5 losses
27 points
1.69 points/game (64.22 points over a 38 game season)
0.58 goals scored/game
0.81 goals conceded/game
-0.23 goal differential/game

Sherwood:
19 league games
11 wins, 3 draws, 5 losses
1.89 points/game (71.82 points over a 38 game season)
1.44 goals scored/game
1.12 goals conceded/game
+0.32 goal differential/game

Every performance indicator there except goals conceded favours Sherwood. It isn't even close on the most important measure, which is points/game.

This is despite, as rupsmith pointed out, an unmanageable injury list, especially in defence.

Incidentally, although we are 2 points behind last season's pace based on the number of matches played, we are dead-level with last season's points based on matched opposition. We presently have 63 points and 3 games left - we won all 3 corresponding games last season, to give us 72 points.

The most important point for me, as someone who likes to watch attacking football, is that we have scored 11 goals in the past 3 games (and conceded 5). Under AVB, it took our first 13 games before we had scored 11 goals (at which time we had conceded 14).

People have built up such a level of mutually-reinforcing, collective fury at Sherwood that they aren't seeing the actuality.
Great analysis. And to add to this he hasn't even had a pre season or any of "his" players to work with. He's basically just turned up to work one day and started managing a team of internationals with absolutely no prior experience. That he has managed to get the results he has, get most of the players working for him, integrate a few decent young players into the team and all that with the constant focus on his future at the club; for me shows signs of a good young tough manager who deserves a chance to manage longer.

People seem to be absolutely furious with him purely because of how he comes across in the media. And it doesn't even appear to be what he actually says - which most of the time seems to be totally honest and seems to make perfect sense to me - but the WAY he says it. I.e. his accent and his confidence. It's strange and I simply do not understand it
 

rupsmith

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2006
Messages
1,325
#52
Sure that's much easier to do once you're out of all three cups in spectacular fashion, riding the wave of hard work that was put into a more settled team by AVB. But that's fine - I'm glad you're delighted with the football and player morale Sherwood's brought us. Please be happy for the both of us.
Did AVB win us all three cups last year or did I miss something. And considering the stats of the team under AVB, to suggest that the nature of play we have now under Tim is the inevitable fruition of AVB's brilliant work means that you simply do not understand AVB's approach to the game or the reason why he was sacked.
 

CrazyHeart

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2013
Messages
2,341
#53
Did AVB win us all three cups last year or did I miss something. And considering the stats of the team under AVB, to suggest that the nature of play we have now under Tim is the inevitable fruition of AVB's brilliant work means that you simply do not understand AVB's approach to the game or the reason why he was sacked.
My point was that comparing league results in that fashion is not equitable by any means. There are other factors in involved, but Sherwood fans are always quick to overlook them.
 

rupsmith

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2006
Messages
1,325
#54
My point was that comparing league results in that fashion is not equitable by any means. There are other factors in involved, but Sherwood fans are always quick to overlook them.
You are absolutely right and I completely agree with you. They are generally not comparable.

And I am not a blind fan of Sherwood. His work seems to have impacted the team positively - as reflected in DM's analysis. What I don't get is why people are so critical of him. When I ask the question it always appears to be down to his media skills or simply because he is not experienced enough.

If people were to say, well done Tim, you've done a good job but we are establishing a new framework - becoming the Ajax of the Premier League and therefore need a manager with this particular philosophy coming in and that is why we are hiring this very experienced manager - while I wouldn't agree with it, I can understand the thinking.

But the analysis is always Tim is an idiot, he doesn't know what he is doing, he speaks like a moron, he doesn't understand "tactics" etc etc and nothing more substantive. I have posted a heck of a lot on this topic in the last few weeks.
 

CrazyHeart

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2013
Messages
2,341
#55
You are absolutely right and I completely agree with you. They are generally not comparable.

And I am not a blind fan of Sherwood. His work seems to have impacted the team positively - as reflected in DM's analysis. What I don't get is why people are so critical of him. When I ask the question it always appears to be down to his media skills or simply because he is not experienced enough.

If people were to say, well done Tim, you've done a good job but we are establishing a new framework - becoming the Ajax of the Premier League and therefore need a manager with this particular philosophy coming in and that is why we are hiring this very experienced manager - while I wouldn't agree with it, I can understand the thinking.

But the analysis is always Tim is an idiot, he doesn't know what he is doing, he speaks like a moron, he doesn't understand "tactics" etc etc and nothing more substantive. I have posted a heck of a lot on this topic in the last few weeks.
I don't think Tim is an idiot nor do I dislike him personally. I just don't like the fact that we've been leaking goals under him, scoring through set pieces and sheer moments of individual brilliance while looking a mess throughout games. But yes, I agree - we need a real manager to take us forward. We had one, but ah well... I just hope they don't go with proven failure Hoddle.
 

davidmatzdorf

Front Page Gadfly
Joined
Jun 7, 2004
Messages
11,296
#56
My point was that comparing league results in that fashion is not equitable by any means. There are other factors in involved, but Sherwood fans are always quick to overlook them.
I'm not sure I qualify as a 'Sherwood fan'. I just think the level of vitriol aimed against him here is wildly disproportionate and not based on facts and results.

I think sacking AVB was a mistake, as I have written here at least 10 times. But there's no one arguing with the fact that his team was stultifying to watch and was failing to score goals.

I also think Sherwood has shown that he is too inexperienced to deal with this job at this time. It has nothing to do with his indiscreet tendencies when presented with a microphone - I really don't give a shit about that, as I didn't when Redknapp did the same (but with much more skill and charm).

Sherwood's teams can be infuriating to watch too, for different reasons, but they score goals and win more matches - at the very least, they reliably outplay and generally win against teams who are below us in the table.

Under both managers, we have been following an extremely consistent pattern: we beat teams that have inferior players with more regularity than we have in many years, but we are completely unable to adjust our approach when faced with teams that have the same quality of players to ours, or have superior players.

Sherwood hasn't the nous or experience to deal with top-quality opposition. Neither has AVB. Redknapp had. It's a matter of experience and pragmatism. Sherwood has done pretty well learning on the job, but not well enough to keep it.
 
Last edited:

CrazyHeart

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2013
Messages
2,341
#57
Sherwood hasn't the nous or experience to deal with top-quality opposition. Neither has AVB. Redknapp had. It's a matter of experience and pragmatism. Sherwood has done pretty well learning on the job, but not well enough to keep it.
Not sure if I agree with the last part. Against Arsenal we looked the better side in the second half while we held our own against Chelsea in the 1-1 draw. We looked more confident and were much harder to break down and we looked like we played with a system. Granted, it was boring to watch at times, but if that was the price to pay for a few settling in games then I was more than happy to grant that. The absence of Adebayor didn't help much either, but that was clearly his own doing. Every player assumed responsibility for the shocking results and all said wonderful things about AVB. In contrast, all we're really getting is praise from youth players and Ade himself for Sherwood, while many express their discontent. Sherwood is not in the same league or class as AVB and I just don't think they belong in the same sentence in any comparable fashion.
 

rupsmith

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2006
Messages
1,325
#58
Sherwood hasn't the nous or experience to deal with top-quality opposition. Neither has AVB. Redknapp had. It's a matter of experience and pragmatism. Sherwood has done pretty well learning on the job, but not well enough to keep it.
The romantic in wants someone like Tim - a passionate, honest, tough guy who bleeds for the club bringing youth into the team being given an year and winning a cup or something. And hearing the crowd roar when the team is attacking at pace

Pragmatist in me agrees with you unfortunately. He will go and some big name will come in on a 3 year deal.
 

greaves

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2006
Messages
4,145
#59
The romantic in wants someone like Tim - a passionate, honest, tough guy who bleeds for the club bringing youth into the team being given an year and winning a cup or something. And hearing the crowd roar when the team is attacking at pace

Pragmatist in me agrees with you unfortunately. He will go and some big name will come in on a 3 year deal.
And will last 3 weeks, or however long the restless emperor decrees...
 
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
7
#60
It's like all the frustration from our 'piss poor for entertainment value AVB' first half of the season has been directed at Sherwood in the second half. Talk about sense of entitlement. You realize at elite level of sports its the tiny percentages for player's performances that work for or against you. On a side note I thought Adebayor was absolute shite yesterday - barely got above a jog all game and at times looks like the lanky teenager in an U13 game trying to sidefoot shot with zero power. The one thing that sticks with me this season is the reaction of fans on this board - I knew we were fickle at times but you lot suck.
 
Top