In a 4-2-3-1 which players should be our 2 dM's

[Acid]

Spot on and this is half the problem. Why the fk are we playing 2 in front of the back 4 against really really piss poor teams.
It invites them to attack and is counter productive.
It slows down our play so much we barely shoot.
If we'd gone at Leicester they'd have been shit scared to come out of their own half.
Id rather watch us trying to break them down than watch the fkin Alamo in our goal area.
AVB did the same shit at home against giants like Norwich. Dumb.
IMO Id only like to see this formation against top 4 or 5 teams not bloody cannon fodder.

I remember so many games in the past where we've gone all out at the start and burned out towards the end which resulted in us leaking late goals to the "smaller" sides. Not sure if we have the balance yet to do that successfully and with our defence we might just need 2 CDMs atm, but we don't actually have any true CDMs just make shift ones IMHO.

 

[St José Dominguez]

If others had put in performances at the level of what Mason has in the last month or so they'd have been chased out of WHL. We are supposed to give him allowances because he's home grown? Because he's come through the academy? I love his application on the pitch but I'm nowhere near sold on other aspects of his game. Capoue, Paulinho and Dembele have had to cope with playing under three different managers all with different footballing philosophies yet we've all written them off and want them sold 4 months into Poch's reign. Stambouli has been here 2 minutes and apparently we desperately need a new CM and he's just a sub.
I'd love to know the rules, because it's not even that all academy players get excused for being poor as Townsend and Rose get ripped to pieces at every opportunity.

 

[Archibald-CPH]

Would like to see Eriksen in a deeper role. Like Modric

 

[Blake Griffin]

Would like to see Eriksen in a deeper role. Like Modric

we're struggling for goals as it is without moving our top scorer further away from the opposition's goal and bogging him down with even more defensive work in the process. he's not cut out for that role.

 

[Blake Griffin]

If others had put in performances at the level of what Mason has in the last month or so they'd have been chased out of WHL. We are supposed to give him allowances because he's home grown? Because he's come through the academy? I love his application on the pitch but I'm nowhere near sold on other aspects of his game. Capoue, Paulinho and Dembele have had to cope with playing under three different managers all with different footballing philosophies yet we've all written them off and want them sold 4 months into Poch's reign. Stambouli has been here 2 minutes and apparently we desperately need a new CM and he's just a sub.
I'd love to know the rules, because it's not even that all academy players get excused for being poor as Townsend and Rose get ripped to pieces at every opportunity.

i think mason has done fine but regardless of that he shows a great deal of energy, fight, tenacity and he's a niggly little bastard who gets under the skin of the opposition, the other three(capoue and paulinho in particular) amble around without a care in the world, they can look semi-ok when we're on top and dominating the game but when the going gets tough those two down tools and leave everyone else to it. i hope capoue never wears a spurs shirt again, he's a bad egg and it seems poch has identified that.

 

[Archibald-CPH]

we're struggling for goals as it is without moving our top scorer further away from the opposition's goal and bogging him down with even more defensive work in the process. he's not cut out for that role.

We all said the same about Modric. We all thought he was to lightweigth. He proved us wrong.

I would like to see Poch give it a try

 

[Blake Griffin]

We all said the same about Modric. We all thought he was to lightweigth. He proved us wrong.

I would like to see Poch give it a try

i think modric is far more robust than eriksen. modric also never had eriksen's quality in the final third so moving him away from goal made sense. we rely on three players for goals and eriksen is one of them, moving him back hurts us offensively and defensively imo.

 

[Cravenspurs]

We have the players in Bentaleb and Mason, it's whether you have the patience for them to learn and adapt.

I don't see Bentaleb being the destroyer we need.

Man City: Fernando/Fernandinho/Toure

Chelsea:
Matic/Mikel/Fabregas

Just two examples, but both Chelsea and Man City have a two options that sit next to their Mason (Toure/Fabregas) and it works.

There was some crazy stat for Chelsea and having Matic in the lineup. Something like they win 75% of their games when he plays.

Just shows the importance of having someone that can sit and protect. Someone that can make the decisive tackle. I haven't seen Bentaleb tackle too often and it says something when Mason puts in more work than Bentaleb does. Just look at the image below. Link if it image doesn't work.

 

[Shadydan]

I don't see Bentaleb being the destroyer we need.

Man City: Fernando/Fernandinho/Toure

Chelsea:
Matic/Mikel/Fabregas

Just two examples, but both Chelsea and Man City have a two options that sit next to their Mason (Toure/Fabregas) and it works.

There was some crazy stat for Chelsea and having Matic in the lineup. Something like they win 75% of their games when he plays.

Just shows the importance of having someone that can sit and protect. Someone that can make the decisive tackle. I haven't seen Bentaleb tackle too often and it says something when Mason puts in more work than Bentaleb does. Just look at the image below. Link if it image doesn't work.

You don't need a destroyer to play in a 4-2-3-1, you need a player with tactical discipline and the know how to snuff out danger.

 

[Archibald-CPH]

i think modric is far more robust than eriksen. modric also never had eriksen's quality in the final third so moving him away from goal made sense. we rely on three players for goals and eriksen is one of them, moving him back hurts us offensively and defensively imo.

I understand what you mean - but we are lacking speed, creativity and players with courage to make the one pass. Instead we have players passing it sideways.

Still a free role - just deeper

 

[iluvsteffenfreund]

Why? I really don't get all the praise heaped on Bentaleb. Every midfield partnership he has been in has looked defensively weak right back to Sherwood's time, and yet he is frequently touted as our 'holding' player option. My assessment of him goes;

Pro;
Neat and tidy with the ball. Passes quickly in tight situations. Sometimes effective with long range passes.

Con;
Doesn't tackle very well. Pulls out of 50/50 challenges.
Doesn't track back well when possession is lost.
Doesn't mark very well at set pieces.
Doesn't take players on and beat them.
Doesn't create chances.
Doesn't provide a goal threat.

I know he is young (blah blah), but potentially world class???

Spot on, the cons far outweigh the pros. Yesterday for their goal was A prime example. Missed the first tackle then half heartedly tried to win it back but failed and they score. His awareness of his runner running off him is shocking too. He can pass it nicely but ffs you need more than that. Look at the players in other sides that play his role they have the lot. He has the passing range but that's it....

 

[Cravenspurs]

You don't need a destroyer to play in a 4-2-3-1, you need a player with tactical discipline and the know how to snuff out danger.

With our desired system of the fullbacks getting forward, we need someone to sit and protect. So I disagree. The full width of our play comes from the forward push of the fullbacks and without a true enforcer in the midfield we can't deploy our width as soundly as possible.

I like Bentaleb, I support him. But he is not a player to put in a shift defensively.

 

[Cravenspurs]

Why? I really don't get all the praise heaped on Bentaleb. Every midfield partnership he has been in has looked defensively weak right back to Sherwood's time, and yet he is frequently touted as our 'holding' player option. My assessment of him goes;

Pro;
Neat and tidy with the ball. Passes quickly in tight situations. Sometimes effective with long range passes.

Con;
Doesn't tackle very well. Pulls out of 50/50 challenges.
Doesn't track back well when possession is lost.
Doesn't mark very well at set pieces.
Doesn't take players on and beat them.
Doesn't create chances.
Doesn't provide a goal threat.

I know he is young (blah blah), but potentially world class???

I like the sound of your logic! We agree brother.

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

Morgan Schneiderlin with any of the fuckers.

 

[Shadydan]

With our desired system of the fullbacks getting forward, we need someone to sit and protect. So I disagree. The full width of our play comes from the forward push of the fullbacks and without a true enforcer in the midfield we can't deploy our width as soundly as possible.

I like Bentaleb, I support him. But he is not a player to put in a shift defensively.

But sitting and protecting doesn't require you to learn a new skill set, it just requires you to change your mentality, that's something that will come with practice and time.

That's the point of my original post, just because he doesn't do an adequate job now doesn't mean he won't be able to in the future...he's still young and he needs to learn to adapt and it takes a succession of games to adapt.

 

[Blake Griffin]

i also think it sounds good on paper that the attacking threat out wide comes from the full backs but i can't help but think people have unrealistic expectations of them. as gary neville said, full backs are either failed centre backs or wingers who don't quite have the quality on the ball to play further forward, so expecting them to go up and down the pitch a hundred times a game whilst defending diligently and contributing incisive play at the other end is a massive ask. it's also thoroughly annoying when one of our full backs has gone forward trying to supply the width and we get countered on we hear screams of "rose!/walker! so out of position!!".

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

i also think it sounds good on paper that the attacking threat out wide comes from the full backs but i can't help but think people have unrealistic expectations of them. as gary neville said, full backs are either failed centre backs or wingers who don't quite have the quality on the ball to play further forward, so expecting them to go up and down the pitch a hundred times a game whilst defending diligently and contributing incisive play at the other end is a massive ask. it's also thoroughly annoying when one of our full backs has gone forward trying to supply the width and we get countered on we hear screams of "rose!/walker! so out of position!!".

It's only annoying when one of the fuck wit's lose discipline, and Rose did that yet again countless times yesterday. Davies is far better disciplined at playing as a back primarily and supporting the attack secondary. Rose still thinks he's a left winger playing for Madrid.

In fairness to Walker this was like his third game back after a very long injury absence, playing on a heavy pitch and he still looks off the pace. I will cut him some slack on a single performance, but Rose for all i care might as well look for another Club. He's far too much a liability to play for a PL club pertaining to want CL football.

 

[JAYSTAR]

I don't see Bentaleb being the destroyer we need.

Man City: Fernando/Fernandinho/Toure

Chelsea:
Matic/Mikel/Fabregas

Just two examples, but both Chelsea and Man City have a two options that sit next to their Mason (Toure/Fabregas) and it works.

There was some crazy stat for Chelsea and having Matic in the lineup. Something like they win 75% of their games when he plays.

Just shows the importance of having someone that can sit and protect. Someone that can make the decisive tackle. I haven't seen Bentaleb tackle too often and it says something when Mason puts in more work than Bentaleb does. Just look at the image below. Link if it image doesn't work.

I was looking at the Man City team and it's the set-up we are closest to out of the top teams and their CM partnership is something we should try to emulate imo. Bentaleb is not a big tackler and if anything, wants to dictate play and transition play, which means he and Mason are too similar and shouldn't both play together. The problem is we don't have good enough defensive midfielders to allow the more attacking CMs to attack freely. Dembele could become a CDM imo, but Capoue and Stambo just seem too slow to me to do the job against top teams. Bentaleb is lacking form and needs a rest imo. We're halfway through the season and need to shore up the midfield asap.

 

[Cravenspurs]

But sitting and protecting doesn't require you to learn a new skill set, it just requires you to change your mentality, that's something that will come with practice and time.

That's the point of my original post, just because he doesn't do an adequate job now doesn't mean he won't be able to in the future...he's still young and he needs to learn to adapt and it takes a succession of games to adapt.

Agreed. But at what expense?

I like the kid. Just don't see him as a first choice DM. But at this time, we don't have much of a choice.

The tackle he could have put in on the creator of the goal yesterday is a skill that I don't think you just pick up. Certain players have the mentality and I haven't seen it in him.

 

[Cravenspurs]

i also think it sounds good on paper that the attacking threat out wide comes from the full backs but i can't help but think people have unrealistic expectations of them. as gary neville said, full backs are either failed centre backs or wingers who don't quite have the quality on the ball to play further forward, so expecting them to go up and down the pitch a hundred times a game whilst defending diligently and contributing incisive play at the other end is a massive ask. it's also thoroughly annoying when one of our full backs has gone forward trying to supply the width and we get countered on we hear screams of "rose!/walker! so out of position!!".

I see, I see. So a good example is Chelsea.

Ivanovic plays most of his game up the pitch. Matic sits in the middle as Cahill pushes towards the right to cover for Ivanovic. Azpilicueta (sp) doesn't push up as often due to Ivanovic's runs, but does make the runs periodically.

To me this is what we have in Davies and Walker. One fullback more defensively aligned and one that is a "failed winger" as you say. What are we missing? Matic! Sandro was our Matic until injuries robbed him of his brilliance.