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It's a squad game!

Yiddo777

Active Member
Oct 8, 2004
125
91
I'll admit I'm literally an addict of the transfer rumours forum, as I'm sure many are, but one reoccurring theme that I find a little frustrating is the constant perception we shouldn't buy player x or y because we already have a good player in their position.

This is really evident in both the Wanyama and Batshuayi threads. It gets trotted out time and time again that these players shouldn't be signed because we already have Harry and Dier. For me there are many reasons why these players would be good signings.

Firstly they would provide completion to the current players, the likely outcome being they would push these players on to even higher standards. Lots of examples of this in the past, Bentley and Lennon spring to mind, Walker who I think had his best season yet pushed on by Tripper, the same scenario at left full back this season, amongst other examples.

Another reason, these players can't play every game and I think it was our squad depth with quality coming off the bench or to replace suspensions that let us down towards the end of the season. I also think it was borderline irresponsible of the club to have just one out and out striker at the club, it meant Harry had to be flogged, I think it was his 60th game this season the other day against Turkey, he's likely going to play at least 65 games by the end of Euro 16 this can't continue indefinitely I would say about 50-55 games a season would be a better scenario as a maximum amount of games to keep a player fresher and with reduced chance of injury, imagine if Harry was injured for a period of time this season, we likely wouldn't have qualified for champions league.

Then there is the increased tactical flexibility that both these signing could lead to, the ability to go 2 up front if needed or if someone is having a bad game to be able to replace them. Or what about having the ability to protect a few more 2-0 leads bringing on someone like Wanyama to play with Dier and really shore up that midfield. There really are many advantages to having a deeper squad with more quality.

Lastly, I don't care who is playing, I just want players that do the business, we are turning into a top club now, getting bogged down with player x's feelings about getting in the team does not concern me one bit. If Batshuayi comes in and scores 40 goals next season, then great, if the players we have, have the right mentality it will push them on to do even better under the conditions of increased competition. Football is an incredibly competitive industry, I want players that thrive under these circumstances, if they want out because they can't get in the team, great! It makes way for someone with a better mentality.

In short, I want us to start thinking like a really big club, if Poch is the real deal as I believe he is, then we are on the right track, I just think it's time for a few of our supporters mentality to think big too.
 

Lighty64

I believe
Aug 24, 2010
10,400
12,476
if buying a quality player, but when in talks they are told they have to fight for their place, there is a good chance they will go and sign for a team that will give them assurances.

now on the Batshauyi signing, can you point me to the post/posts that say we shouldn't sign him due to Kane, cause I haven't seen them.

on the Wanyama signing, do you think he will want to sign for us? knowing Dier and Dembelle will be ahead of him?

yes we need better options off the bench, but we don't need to ruin the feel good factor of this squad, because if we get players that are not happy because their place has been taken without justification we could start having problem players again, which we just shifted, and I wouldn't be surprised if Bentaleb goes because he thinks he is too good to be a squad player. to me he never looked happy once he got back from injury, to find himself sat mainly on the bench, and then started playing with the U21's
 

beats1

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2010
30,006
29,551
Wanyama is overrated and nobody may of noticed but Pochettino used him as a box to box player, we have that in Dembele.

Also people are quick to write off our players. It was only a 8 months ago when it seemed certain Dembele was certain to go and after a run of games he turned his spurs career around but people make out as if dembele has been great for years and years. He hasnt to write of the other players is a bit premature
I wouldn't be surprised if Bentaleb goes because he thinks he is too good to be a squad player. to me he never looked happy once he got back from injury, to find himself sat mainly on the bench, and then started playing with the U21's
Or the real explanation is that he struggled with fitness and he tried to work his way back in to the team by building his fitness.

People who have seen Bentaleb train and play will know he just wants to play football and doesn't have an attitude problem. He has had issues with his attitude similar that he is arguable a bit too passionate
 

Lighty64

I believe
Aug 24, 2010
10,400
12,476
Or the real explanation is that he struggled with fitness and he tried to work his way back in to the team by building his fitness.

People who have seen Bentaleb train and play will know he just wants to play football and doesn't have an attitude problem. He has had issues with his attitude similar that he is arguable a bit too passionate

you might be right, we all see things in a different way, and too me his body language never looked right in his few appearances after he returned from his 1st injury.

it can't be easy for anyone going from 1st choice, to struggling to get even on the bench by the end
 

beats1

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2010
30,006
29,551
you might be right, we all see things in a different way, and too me his body language never looked right in his few appearances after he returned from his 1st injury.

it can't be easy for anyone going from 1st choice, to struggling to get even on the bench by the end
I call bullshit on that, because there was one match when people said he doesn't want to be here but in that match Bentaleb ran back to cover Rose and got the ball. He then fist pumped the air and was happy to be playing

Again you're assuming, the fact that he has had another operation clearly proves he is struggling with his initial injury

Once again people are reading too much in to bad rumours because he "looks" a bad un rather than actually realising this is a player struggling with injury
 

Lighty64

I believe
Aug 24, 2010
10,400
12,476
I call bullshit on that, because there was one match when people said he doesn't want to be here but in that match Bentaleb ran back to cover Rose and got the ball. He then fist pumped the air and was happy to be playing

Again you're assuming, the fact that he has had another operation clearly proves he is struggling with his initial injury

Once again people are reading too much in to bad rumours because he "looks" a bad un rather than actually realising this is a player struggling with injury

well if I'm wrong I promise to return and admit it
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
33,986
81,916
I think people are way too quick to write players off as not good enough.

The previous season our starting midfield pairing was Bentaleb and Mason and we finished 5th.

Now have a different pairing and people suddenly declare these players as not good enough to be squad players.

Being a squad player requires a different mentality to a first team starter. We saw Bony and Benteke play very well when starting every week then once they moved to a bigger club and found themselves playing sporadically their performances went down. Which naturally has made some people declare them as useless, which is nonsense.

So I agree with those who don't want us constantly buying squad players. I don't buy into the idea that Bentaleb, Mason, Njie etc should have "upgrades" purchased in their place.

I also think people like Kane thrive under the pressure of being the main man. So buying a like for like striker and rotating him would not be beneficial to him or Spurs.
 

foxilator

Active Member
Jan 31, 2013
138
169
The challenge in buying players to improve the squad rather than the first team is with meeting their expectations. If we go out and spend £25m+ on a striker he's going to expect to start. When he invariably doesnt because Kane then Mitchell et al need to make sure they have chosen a player with the right mentality to accept that they will get their chances and will need to take them when they come. We already have too many players who are great with a run of games but do not adapt well to being on the fringes (Chadli springs to mind). Personally I think we are better off improving the squad by either buying unproven talent like N'Jie or getting in experienced players who are approaching the end of their careers and will provide winning mentality but accept they won't play week in week out (like when Harry brought in Gudjohnsen).
 

Japhet

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2010
19,232
57,391
There was no problem rotating Walker/Rose with Trippier/Davies earlier in the season. We also went a bit downhill when Vertonghen came back in for Wimmer IMO which was an example of reputation over from. We have also suffered with lack of quality on the bench and inability to adapt tactically. We have been incredibly lucky with injuries, particularly Kane and Dier, and it was plain for all to see that they were running on fumes by the end of the season. We need quality rotation options if we want to maintain full throttle for a whole term and some players could do with a bit more competition.
 

talkshowhost86

Mod-Moose
Staff
Oct 2, 2004
48,105
47,061
It's certainly a fine line between filling the squad with players who will be unhappy at not playing regularly, and making sure we have good enough cover in all positions.

There's also a fine line between rotating too much and not rotating enough so it really is tricky.

For me it's clear that there are two positions where we are light on options. Striker and defensive midfield. We only have one player in each of these positions who is of the quality required at the level we are striving for. Based on the importance of these positions I'm hoping we're looking at two high-class options to come in and create competition (Wanyama and Batman seem to be the favourites at the moment).

Other than that, the main area for me is in a creative midfielder to play instead of Dembele when needed. We have Bentaleb, Mason and Carroll for this role so it is arguable whether we need to sign anyone, and I'm sure Poch is more than happy to give the existing squad every chance before going out and spending. For me, none of the three have shown they are good enough against top opposition, although Bentaleb may be the exception there. If he can get fit and firing then we may not need anyone else in that role, but if he's off (whether due to attitude or not) then I think we need someone in that area.

That's only 3 players...it's hardly going to upset the apple cart. Growth from within is great, and I hope we try and promote that, but they need to earn it by proving they are better than the established stars. That's what Kane and Alli did, and there's no reason that others won't do so even if we bring in some new established faces.

As the OP says...it's a squad game.
 

JimmyG2

SC Supporter
Dec 7, 2006
15,014
20,779
It's tricky in many ways.
Buying quality( and paying the fee and the wages) is one thing
but buying quality that is happy to fit into the squad
and buy into the philosophy is another
Which is why internal promotion saves money(a lot of)
and causes the least disruption.
Whatever happened to Onomah?
Has he been discarded?
Like Carroll and Mason and perhaps Bentaleb too.
We need backup for Harry, and Dier not replacement.
Is Pritchard and one or two others not deemed good enough.

We have built our current success on a tight squad
with common ties Academy, youth, temperament
and the abilty to get on and no outright Prima Donnas.
Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater
Stay true to ourselves and Mauricio.
Slow build with careful upgrades which give support
and the option of tactical variation when required.
Dan Levy agrees with me as we both remember
when we had cash burning a hole in our pockets
and splurged the lot at the sales on seven players
without any Premiership experience.
It took Lamela two seasons to settle.
It will take Son and N'Jie the same
.Eriksen was the only undoubted quality success in the short term.
Mauricio should run any prospective new buys
past the squad as well as Levy and Mitchell.

(Yes well perhaps that's an idea whose time has not yet come Jim)
 

brasil_spur

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2006
12,669
16,715
The previous season our starting midfield pairing was Bentaleb and Mason and we finished 5th.

Now have a different pairing and people suddenly declare these players as not good enough to be squad players.

Yes but we also had one of the worst defensive records in the league, in fact our defensive form was relegation levels.

So for me that season highlighted that what we needed to go from a team finishing 5th to a team challenging for the title was an improved defensive unit.

The two deeper midfielders in our set-up are key to our stronger defense.

Therefore you could point towards Bentaleb and Mason and say that these two players were actually holding us back from finishing higher than 5th, along with the need for a more robust CB partnership.

We changed only 3 players out 7 in the defensive and midfield line-up, and that has taken us from worst defensive record in the league to best defensive record in the league.

Now using this same process and looking at what has held us back this season - to be it seems to be a simple case of not finishing off games. For that we need more attacking squad options.

So for me from a squad perspective we need, in order of priority:
  1. ST (Kane rotation)
  2. AM (Starter that can really provide that cutting edge we've missed at times and rotation for Alli)
  3. CM (Dembele rotation)
  4. DM (Dier rotation)
 

Gaz_Gammon

Well-Known Member
Apr 16, 2005
16,047
18,013
if buying a quality player, but when in talks they are told they have to fight for their place, there is a good chance they will go and sign for a team that will give them assurances.

now on the Batshauyi signing, can you point me to the post/posts that say we shouldn't sign him due to Kane, cause I haven't seen them.

on the Wanyama signing, do you think he will want to sign for us? knowing Dier and Dembelle will be ahead of him?

yes we need better options off the bench, but we don't need to ruin the feel good factor of this squad, because if we get players that are not happy because their place has been taken without justification we could start having problem players again, which we just shifted, and I wouldn't be surprised if Bentaleb goes because he thinks he is too good to be a squad player. to me he never looked happy once he got back from injury, to find himself sat mainly on the bench, and then started playing with the U21's


Then thats a blessing in disguise. Poch wants team players not individuals. I thought that fact would be pretty clear to anyone following Spurs this season?
 

garryparkerschest

Well-Known Member
Apr 24, 2012
1,306
2,467
What we need is a defensive midfielder to help Dier or play along with Dier, depending on the circumstances. Kante pleeeeease!!!

We also need competition for the CM3 behind Kane, a game changer, our final piece to our jigsaw to make us into a title winning team, our Eric Cantona, Ladies and gentleman may I introduce you to Leandro Damiao!!!

Only joking, I'd love to have Lacazette and have Batshuayi to provide cover/support for our Harry.
 

TropicalYid

Well-Known Member
Jul 25, 2014
1,500
2,200
Poch has said that the Club are looking for support for Kane as a priority. Playing in four competitions next season will require that.

I know, hence my comment. Still havent seen anyone on SC objecting to buying a second striker bacuse we have Kane.
 

DJS

A hoonter must hoont
Dec 9, 2006
31,261
21,760
Wanyama is overrated and nobody may of noticed but Pochettino used him as a box to box player, we have that in Dembele.

I thought Schneiderlein (sp) was the box to box player and Wanyama was their hard bastard defensive midfielder?
 

beats1

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2010
30,006
29,551
I thought Schneiderlein (sp) was the box to box player and Wanyama was their hard bastard defensive midfielder?
Under Koeman yes but under Poch it was the other way round
 
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