Jenas is the key

[Mornstar]

Jol tried playing Jenas in the carrick holding role in our very first game of the season. The end result was that we lost against the poorest side in the league. Jenas is a box to box runner. He does not have the skill or the intelligence required for the holding role, which demands descipline, composure and outstanding vision (Jenas does not posess any of these qualities). Someone like Pedro mendes would be ideal. Or we could always make a bid for pirlo and get the very best in the business.....ok, this was a joke.

Sorry, but this is a non starter.

 

[SpurSince57]

We played Derby in the frst game of the season?

 

[Mornstar]

Let's be honest, there's not a lot to choose between Derby and Sunderland

 

[TaoistMonkey]

We played Derby in the frst game of the season?

wasn't it sunderland? :shrug:

 

[Mornstar]

wasn't it sunderland? :shrug:

Old age....Alzheimers..I'll leave you to put two n two together.

 

[hatch]

jenas average player imo....

 

[tRiKS]

Old age....Alzheimers..I'll leave you to put two n two together.

SS57's point was absorbed and duly noted. you may not think the fact Sunderland are not the worst team in the division (especially at home) is significant to your point but i think it is.

Simply edit your post. change it to "one of the worst" no none would argue that... although the post itself will have less impact...Funny how the truth can often disable points.

 

[tRiKS]

jenas average player imo....

Eek someone remind me again why hatch didn't win best poster?

 

[SpurSince57]

Let's be honest, there's not a lot to choose between Derby and Sunderland

There is a fair bit, actually. Not that they're much cop, but they are way better than Derby and have been hard work to break down at home, particularly if you don't have any width, which we didn't; without Giggs and Ronaldo United made a real meal of beating them at OT. They also gave Arsenal a real fright at the Immigrants and really should have beaten the Spammers.

Jenas was pretty indifferent and Zokora was downright poor, but the reason we lost was nothing to do with midfield; it was a series of basic errors by our three most experienced defenders.

 

[Bobbins]

Mendes and Davis please. Oh wait...

Anyway, Mendes an Jenas, that would be a nice partnership.

 

[Stoof]

Zokora >>> Jenas

The crocodile bites at the greatest thing.

That's what we was teached at skool.

Your float* of crocodiles appears to be biting the wrong way.

Now, write it out 10 times:

Jenas > Zokora.

Go!

*aren't collective nouns awesome?

 

[tRiKS]

A Caravan of Gooners

A Delusion of Geordies

a Skank of Chavs

a Hub(cap) of Scousers

an Army of Yids

 

[thfcsuperyid]

playing well since ramos came in.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

To my mind the point is reasonably mute. To imporve on Jenas in either of the CM roles is nigh on impossible with any player is who definately better (not sure the Nolans and Parkers and Bartons of this world are DEFIANTELY better) when all are playing for CL clubs.

It's all to often ignored (easily done with the very high percentage of chances created agaisnt us converted at the moment) but Jenas and Zokora and Steed have been virtual ever presents in a midfeild which is still in the top 3 passes attempted and completed (only behind goons and UTD) still top 4 goal scored and in all but 2 games this season our midfield has contributed to us creating, by some fair distance in most games, far more than the opposition.

Aside from Everton at home and Barcodes away, we've created enough chances in every game we've played to justifably say we could have won and in lots of cases should have won. In the specific cases of both the Brimingham teams and Fulham - our shots, shots on target and corners stats was unreal...I'm talking ripley's believe it or not unreal. Totally bemusing, despite our defensive mistakes, that we didn't score 8 or 9 let alone just win those games.

I find it very difficult to be too damming of our CM when we boss nearly every game, all the other midfields we get compared i'll favourably to don't create and pass and boss the game offensively and territorially anyway near the consisent degree. Pomey, villa and Evertons stats in creating and possesion aren't as good (thier conversion rates are better though) AND they play with one extra man in the Middle than us. The much fabled blackburn have shown recently thier weaknesses!!! why on earth would i want Dunne or Savage over Jenas??? or MGP over Steed?

Exactly. I keep banging on about this but everyone spends hours on here bitching about Zokora, Jenas or malbranque when the answer is far simpler (and in order of importance) Dawson, Robinson, Chimbonda. It's our defence that needs surgery. If you put a Cb capable of organising and (of course) defending instead of Dawson you would probably see instant improvement. Replace Robinson with a decent keeper who can command his space as well and again less panic would ensue every time the opponent shoot or have a set piece.

The next thing to do is get Berbatov putting in max effort and at least one striker to defend from the front and we have a pretty impressive team. All that needs doing then would be to organise the midfield slightly differently as per my/joey's original suggestion.

We have a midfield that despite not playing to it's strengths (players out of position, rotation and tactics) has continually dominated possession and allowed very few shots on target and created chances.

Therefore my blueprint for success would be:

1. Drop Dawson & Robinson / replace with better quality players who can command. (which would involve kicking Chimbonda up the arse at regular intervals).

2. Make sure Berbatov puts in 100%. Make sure we defend from the front.

3. jenas holder, Malbranque cm (or Hudd/Zok depending on circs and injuries).

 

[hatch]

Eek someone remind me again why hatch didn't win best poster?

fist me......

 

[Babylon22]

will be very surprised if jenas is starting games this time next year. ramos will get his own players in.

 

[tRiKS]

Exactly. I keep banging on about this but everyone spends hours on here bitching about Zokora, Jenas or malbranque when the answer is far simpler (and in order of importance) Dawson, Robinson, Chimbonda. It's our defence that needs surgery. If you put a Cb capable of organising and (of course) defending instead of Dawson you would probably see instant improvement. Replace Robinson with a decent keeper who can command his space as well and again less panic would ensue every time the opponent shoot or have a set piece.

The next thing to do is get Berbatov putting in max effort and at least one striker to defend from the front and we have a pretty impressive team. All that needs doing then would be to organise the midfield slightly differently as per my/joey's original suggestion.

We have a midfield that despite not playing to it's strengths (players out of position, rotation and tactics) has continually dominated possession and allowed very few shots on target and created chances.

Therefore my blueprint for success would be:

1. Drop Dawson & Robinson / replace with better quality players who can command. (which would involve kicking Chimbonda up the arse at regular intervals).

2. Make sure Berbatov puts in 100%. Make sure we defend from the front.

3. jenas holder, Malbranque cm (or Hudd/Zok depending on circs and injuries).

Don't suck me into you're anti Dawson-ness...

My point is that people ignore what we are doing right sometimes to strengthen thier agendas. I'm not ignoing what we do wrong, we do leave defenders exposed and i still maintian it is very easy to make a CB look like a clown by other players infront and beside not doing thier jobs properly. Dawson is underperfroming yes! but i can see big contributing factors to specific incidents in games and also generally i've see his confidence chipped away by constant inefficiencies by people around him. Chimbonda i have issues with becasue he's irresponsible. I can forgive loss of form but a bad attitiuted i can not

Individual blame on people is by the by as far as what i'm talking about today anyway. We set up to be an attacking 442, our tactics and the way we approach the game doesn't make defending particually easy. We take risks that so many of our contempories do not. And if we finished the same precentage of chances we did last season we really would be there or there abouts regardless of the goals we've let in.

I suppose if anything I'm hinting blame towards not finishing ... how many misses does berbatov/Keane etc have to have to equal a Dawson mistake? 5, 6 , 8 ?? Does keane scoring 2 but missing 3 times as many, exhonorate him from blame in a 3-2 defeat? I think everyone will instantly anwser "yes, it flipping well does" but i hesitate. As a defender i feel sorry for the times they are put under pressure when we should be 4-0 up.

with the exception of the Top bastards were the only attacking team, home and away for 38 games. The only one!
Pompey (currently 5th) will play 451 at home next weekend against us. 451at home! and will look to hit us on the break. Everton will do the same at goodison, city will, villa will.

I think at times because King is so good, despite the enviorment he's workign in, we use his example to judge the others. I sincerely think Carragher and Terry would look ordinary in our current team too.

 

[Legacy]

I think to make Jenas either attacking or defensive will reduce his effectiveness. He has ability, he just neesds to use it more often and not be afraid of making a mistake once in a while

It's a bit difficult for him to not be afraid about making the occasional mistake because, despite all the work he actually does do for the team, the fans will focus on that one mistake and we'll be bombarded with, "Jenas is shit" comments from a lot of forgetful 'fans' who can't remember all the positives he does.

Seriously, he makes less mistakes and loses the ball less than Keane and Berbatov, yet when they do it, it's quickly forgotten about.

 

[joey55]

It's a bit difficult for him to not be afraid about making the occasional mistake because, despite all the work he actually does do for the team, the fans will focus on that one mistake and we'll be bombarded with, "Jenas is shit" comments from a lot of forgetful 'fans' who can't remember all the positives he does.

Seriously, he makes less mistakes and loses the ball less than Keane and Berbatov, yet when they do it, it's quickly forgotten about.

Do you think JJ is a member of SC? I'm sure he isn't affraid to make mistakes because of what people will say on messageboards. Also, Berbs and Keane will make more mistakes than any players on the pitch. So will the strikers at every club in the Prem. If you play in the final 3rd, you naturally have less options, less time and less space.

JJ is easily our best CM.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Don't suck me into you're anti Dawson-ness...

My point is that people ignore what we are doing right sometimes to strengthen thier agendas. I'm not ignoing what we do wrong, we do leave defenders exposed and i still maintian it is very easy to make a CB look like a clown by other players infront and beside not doing thier jobs properly. Dawson is underperfroming yes! but i can see big contributing factors to specific incidents in games and also generally i've see his confidence chipped away by constant inefficiencies by people around him. Chimbonda i have issues with becasue he's irresponsible. I can forgive loss of form but a bad attitiuted i can not

Individual blame on people is by the by as far as what i'm talking about today anyway. We set up to be an attacking 442, our tactics and the way we approach the game doesn't make defending particually easy. We take risks that so many of our contempories do not. And if we finished the same precentage of chances we did last season we really would be there or there abouts regardless of the goals we've let in.

I suppose if anything I'm hinting blame towards not finishing ... how many misses does berbatov/Keane etc have to have to equal a Dawson mistake? 5, 6 , 8 ?? Does keane scoring 2 but missing 3 times as many, exhonorate him from blame in a 3-2 defeat? I think everyone will instantly anwser "yes, it flipping well does" but i hesitate. As a defender i feel sorry for the times they are put under pressure when we should be 4-0 up.

with the exception of the Top bastards were the only attacking team, home and away for 38 games. The only one!
Pompey (currently 5th) will play 451 at home next weekend against us. 451at home! and will look to hit us on the break. Everton will do the same at goodison, city will, villa will.

I think at times because King is so good, despite the enviorment he's workign in, we use his example to judge the others. I sincerely think Carragher and Terry would look ordinary in our current team too.

That is the point. Dawson is not underperforming. He is playing to the maximum of his ability. The maximum of any player that is predominantly unintelligent and slow of foot.

Two season ago when Stalteri was getting slaughtered for making 3 mistakes that cost goals, I was saying that Dawson is making mistakes every game but not getting punished, I also said that sooner or later those mistakes will get punished. Low and behold this came to fruition last season where Dawson was at fault game after game and this season it is the same.

Yes we could set up more defensively in midfield but that doesn't change the fact that Dawson, when tested with pace and intelligence, will always come second best. If the test was guts and effort no problem.

Just ask yourself honestly, what areas does Dawson excell in ? He even got outjumped several times by Vassell yesterday.

And it is a similar story with Robinson. What does he excell at. he isn't agile. He doesn't control his area (he doesn't even command his 6 yard box). He flaps at crosses, his handling is poor. All essential requirements to be called a "good" goalkeeper. If he wasn't such a personality he'd have been dropped months ago. Why wouldn't he.