Jermaine Jenas

[tommyt]

JJ is a fantastic player, on his day one of the best, as he showed yesterday. However he is still relatively young, and playing with other young and inexperienced players - so the comparision with other players for me doesn't work.

Our team has been in a transitional state for as long as i can remember. Hopefully now with the structure of the club settled - Levy likes commoli, who appointed Ramos, who appointed Gus and the fitness trainer, and will eventually sign his own players that he feels we need - then we will see the best of our players under a proven, top coach.

 

[SpurSince57]

I'm sure you're right in suggesting we'd see a vastly improved (in terms of consistency) JJ if he was alongside a player of similar quality. The self-belief bit is purely conjectural, not to say next to impossible to prove one way or the other, but I still think that no matter how talented you are, if you haven't got total confidence in that talent you're not going to make the most of it.

Where on earth do people get this idea that he was rubbish for Newcastle from?

 

[barry]

You are of course entitled to your opinion and I respect that but I think that wrong in every single point that you make and you haven't backed any of it up with worthwhile reasoning which I have tried to do in this thread and the Mackay & Jenas thread.

If you think our other CM's would be better alongside a better AMF player that's fine but I'm not sure how that player would improve Hudd's lack of mobility, the tenacious but limited TT and the lacking in every departmnent for a top premiership player Zokora. Would you say that any of those 3 have ever been good enough to play for England?

I'm sorry but I don't think that for 1 minute JJ was shit and inconsistent alongside Carrick, I thought they were an excellent combination.

The media I take no notice of at all.

And finally if JJ was so shit at Newcastle why was he in the England squad at just 19, young player of the year at 19, England debut in the month of his 20th birthday and captain of one of Englands biggest clubs at 21, not too mention just about the 1st name on the teamsheet for each manager he played for there and absolutely loved by Bobby Robson who isn't the worst judge of a player I've ever seen.

I think the season JJ and Carrick were together was his worst season.
Robson rates Titus Bramble.
He got into his first England squad on hype, and the squads after that on potential. When has he ever played? He's never been a regular for England.
Newcastle club captain because Robson liked him. Why isn't he captain, vice captain or even vice, vice captain of Spurs.
You haven't backed up your points with reasoning just with wild conjecture.

 

[Has1978]

I assumed it must have been something like that - considering the goal celebrations.

Top week for him, really. JJ has the ability, I don't think anyone can doubt that, his running has never been in doubt and is most definitely purposeful - and he will always score us goals (8 last year??). I'd just love him to keep it up, and would love to see him next to an Alonso, Eukelele or Carrick (again). There's a reason that both of them played themselves into the England squad (MC and JJ) and it's because they were perfect foils for each other.

DZ is not an MC. DZ is DZ and is getting better, and he sat really well yesterday. His positioning has come on leaps and bounds, and his pressing was much better. A poor side in Wigan, but hey you can only beat what's put in front of you. :up:

I thought DZ was our poorest player (with Dawson) yesterday. Nice run and shot though.

 

[Stoof]

I thought he was our poorest player (with Dawson) yesterday. Nice run and shot though.

When you consider Berbatov put in one of the best performances in his Spurs career, Jenas scoring 2, Malbranque continuing his fine fun of form, Lennon back to his best, Lee and Chimbonda playing to their usual professional levels, Keano being Captain Awesome - being the 'poorest' out of that lot isn't exactly a bad thing.

And if you want to look at poor - Kaboul got caught out 3 times in front of my very eyes and Dawson won absolutely everything in the air. How you can say he was poor is beyond me.

If we're looking to see who was the poorest (which isn't something we should be doing on the back of a overdue league win) then your answer is Younes Kaboul.

The other two were more than fine.

 

[Has1978]

I thought Kaboul had a reasonable game, although you're right he did lose his man (I only noticed the once). Dawson I saw lose his man as well in front of my very own eyes, and lost a few aerial battles too (something that used to be his strength). As the "senior" player of the pair I think he carries more blame when the two of the dozy so and so's go for the same ball and lose it.

Loves a long ball as well doesn't he?

He looked the least assured out of everyone to me - even against a team that lost 7 on the bounce, no fight, no manager, rubbish players. So yes I think I'll stick with "poorest".

Sorry I don't mean to sound like a ****, I really liked Dawson when he first joined - he didn't seem to need Ledley when he and TG were partnered and keeping clean sheets. But that's a long time ago now. He's getting increasingly exposed as a bit of a donkey I'm afraid (kudos to the guy though he seems to love the club, tries hard and seems genuinely nice)

 

[Has1978]

But back on topic - I think most of us are agreed that Jenas has the tools to be a great player. So far this season he has evidenced this against Derby and Wigan at home. Flat track bully :razz:

just kidding, but I hope Ramos takes advantage of his biggest strength (like yesterday) - running from deep and supporting the forwards.

 

[Legend10]

I think the season JJ and Carrick were together was his worst season.
Robson rates Titus Bramble.
He got into his first England squad on hype, and the squads after that on potential. When has he ever played? He's never been a regular for England.
Newcastle club captain because Robson liked him. Why isn't he captain, vice captain or even vice, vice captain of Spurs.
You haven't backed up your points with reasoning just with wild conjecture.

I have backed up my points with reasoning in the Mackay & Jenas thread.

Robson obviously hasn't been the only manager to rate JJ as he has been 1st choice for every manager that he has played for.

He has been until very recently a regular in the England squad, not easy to be a regular in the team when competing with Lampard and especially Gerrard who IMHO is one of the best players let alone midfield players in the world. There's no disgrace for JJ there.

The captaincy part at Spurs doesn't bother me at all but to captain a club a s big as Newcastle at 21 is quite some achievement.

Referring back to the England part, SVE is obviously yet another manager to rate him highly and people are now respecting SVE's opinions.

As for JJ having his worst season alongside Carrick all I will say is that I respect everybody's opinions on football because it is a game of opinions. But that is nothing more than I'll say he was crap because I don't like him and I want it to be so.

Carrick & JJ is an excellent and balanced midfield pairing and they proved in in Spurs shirts.

 

[Stoof]

Carrick & JJ is an excellent and balanced midfield pairing and they proved in in Spurs shirts.

Without doubt. :clap:

 

[yiddotilidie]

I have backed up my points with reasoning in the Mackay & Jenas thread.

Robson obviously hasn't been the only manager to rate JJ as he has been 1st choice for every manager that he has played for.

He has been until very recently a regular in the England squad, not easy to be a regular in the team when competing with Lampard and especially Gerrard who IMHO is one of the best players let alone midfield players in the world. There's no disgrace for JJ there.

The captaincy part at Spurs doesn't bother me at all but to captain a club a s big as Newcastle at 21 is quite some achievement.

Referring back to the England part, SVE is obviously yet another manager to rate him highly and people are now respecting SVE's opinions.

As for JJ having his worst season alongside Carrick all I will say is that I respect everybody's opinions on football because it is a game of opinions. But that is nothing more than I'll say he was crap because I don't like him and I want it to be so.

Carrick & JJ is an excellent and balanced midfield pairing and they proved in in Spurs shirts.

Absolutely, and this partnership shipped the least amount of goals in our prem history.

 

[Legend10]

Absolutely, and this partnership shipped the least amount of goals in our prem history.

Give utd their 18 million back for Carrick (wasn't in the side again yesterday) bring in a quality and experienced central defender and we have a team that could really do some damage.

Alternatively I'll take Poulsen and that defender and we'll still be pretty formidable.

 

[batigol]

Put Lampard in our team and play him in a 442 alongside Zokora, Hudd or TT and see what happens, I tell you now we would slate the shit out of him and he wouldn't do as good a job as what JJ does.

Like SS57 says, its all pure conjecture on your part. Veron was great at Lazio and then he became shit at Man U. He didn't turn shit over night. It's more than that. It's also about tactics and stuff. Don't tell me Man U had lousier players than Veron had at Lazio. On paper, midfield partnership of Gerard and Lampard should beat the daylights out of most teams right? Well, it doesn't happen that way. Whether Lampard will be shit if he is in Spurs right now is a question which no one knows the answers to so I don't want to pluck an answer out of thin air with regards to Lampard being in our team.

JJ is in our squad right now and his inconsistencies are there for all to see. Simple as that. I acknowledge JJ's talents and potential but will like to point out how much more he can improve. People are frustrated with him because they know he can do so much better. He doesn't dominate the midfield like he should and I would like to think that he has the ability to do so. He was truly crap against Newcastle (I haven't seen a more lackluster performance from any other midfield player this season) and he was excellent against Wigan. Too big a gap in his performances unfortunately.

 

[Legend10]

Like SS57 says, its all pure conjecture on your part. Veron was great at Lazio and then he became shit at Man U. He didn't turn shit over night. It's more than that. It's also about tactics and stuff. Don't tell me Man U had lousier players than Veron had at Lazio. On paper, midfield partnership of Gerard and Lampard should beat the daylights out of most teams right? Well, it doesn't happen that way. Whether Lampard will be shit if he is in Spurs right now is a question which no one knows the answers to so I don't want to pluck an answer out of thin air with regards to Lampard being in our team.

JJ is in our squad right now and his inconsistencies are there for all to see. Simple as that. I acknowledge JJ's talents and potential but will like to point out how much more he can improve. People are frustrated with him because they know he can do so much better. He doesn't dominate the midfield like he should and I would like to think that he has the ability to do so. He was truly crap against Newcastle (I haven't seen a more lackluster performance from any other midfield player this season) and he was excellent against Wigan. Too big a gap in his performances unfortunately.

Of course it is, you've agreed with me without even realising it.

It's about balance, complementing and pairs, which is why I've harped on about Carrick and in other threads I've harped on about Gerrard & Alonso, Carrick & Scholes last year and even Sidwell and Harper, they are all balanced and complimenting pairings. I also bang on about football being played as pairs because it is all over the pitch. Central defenders operate as a pair, RB & RM operate as a pair, forwards operate as a pair and so on. If that pairing is unbalanced and 1 player doesn't complement the other you have problems in that area and even more so if 1 half of it isn't good enough. And unfortunately JJ doesn't complemet or balance any of the other sub quality midfield players that we have.

IMHO it would be exactly the same but worse for Lampard at Spurs because he wouldn't get the support, protection or quality of CM player he has around him at Chelsea.

 

[Spurs_Q8]

I rate him highly as the same as Fabregas in Arsenal, Wenger wanted him before us but struggled with Newcastle asking price. Also Man Utd were after him too.

Jenas is one of the best CMs in EPL for sure in terms of quality ( not form ) and I always said that to my cousin, but he needs better coaching, better players around him plus better winning mentaly team to see the best of him which all were lacked if we compared us with Top 4 clubs.

Gerrard, Lampard, Scholes, & Farbregas, all are playing with better players, better coaches and sometimes their managers used 3 in the middle with special DM, that's always leave positive effect in the 3rd man in the middle. Because they kep with lower defending taks and pressure plus more attacking moves and creativity and why they are scoring more Goals. Also Elano doing better now because they are using smilar system and the quality is there for sure in experienced Hamann & energie player Johnson​

I'm sure some people won't agree about this, but can you
Imagine this ?​

Chimbonda - Dawson - Kaboul - Lee
Lennon - Gerrard - Zokora - Malbranque​

Chimbonda - Dawson - Kaboul - Lee
Lennon - Elano - Zokora - Malbranque​

Chimbonda - Dawson - Kaboul - Lee
Lennon - Scholes - Zokora - Malbranque​

Chimbonda - Dawson - Kaboul - Lee
Lennon - Fabregas - Zokora - Malbranque​

Chimbonda - Dawson - Kaboul - Lee
Lennon - Lampard - Zokora - Malbranque​

my be you will see it is better with them, but they will be like Jenas now with a bit of time because they would find it difficult to cope with attacking mind RB, inexperienced CBs, inconsisent RW, weaker DM plus 2 CM system not three. but I'm confident none of them would make the same impact as they do now if they are here !​

For sure we need to think better about this system against strong teams of away games and then you will see a lot ahead of Jenas in counter attacks. That's why we need needs 4 strikers too ( always said that ).​

 

[Bus-Conductor]

We're going to disagree on this BC., I don't buy into this JJ's mentality is his problem.

I can't see how anybody who doesn't have a strong mentality for the game instantly becomes a success in the Prem at just 18 and making himself just about undropable in the process. Young player of the year at 19, England debut bang on his 20th birthday and captain of Newcastle by 21.

Those aren't facts that point to a lad who is devoid of mental strength.

For me mental strength isn't the issue it really is his partners. People talk abot Vieira, Gerrard, Lampard etc etc but just look at the partners they've had playing alongside them, do any of them compare with what Jenas has had to partner him since Carrick left? They all play or played with top draw players, JJ without offence has played with Zokora, Hudd and TT none of whom in my opinion (despite Hudds passing ability) are anywhere near top draw and are lower half prem players at best.

Ramos I am certain is going to get the best out of JJ and personally if the Ramos only rates 6 gossip is true then I am certain JJ is 1 of them. I fully expect Ramos to get him a class of partner that he needs and then we will really see what JJ can do.

But L10, the answer to your questions is in my post. He has the talent to have been all those things. For me, he has the talent to be almost the most complete midfielder in the premiership, if, he meantally applied himself the same every game. The mentality side of things is vital. It is the difference between being potentialy top drawer and top drawer.

Jenas was awsome yesterday and at the end of last year. Yesterday, as at the end of last season, his partner was Zokora. Against derby it was Hudd.

Edgar Davids brought the same intensity to every game he played. Even when he was played on the left wing of our team.

Jenas does not. Davids, Keane & Viera. Did you ever see them smile during a game. They were just completely focused on winning and not losing. They would be telling the ref how to referee. Jenas does not have that intensity or focus all of the time. Have you ever seen Jenas berate a team mate ?

ike I said, without that top mentality he is still a very good player, and one I like alot, but with it he would be right up there. Which is probably why he isn't playing for one of the top4. (with a better partner)

 

[cockjol]

Apparently his missus had a baby daughter last week. That seems to have crept under everyone's radar.

confirmed here:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...all.html?in_article_id=493154&in_page_id=1779

 

[Has1978]

Of course it is, you've agreed with me without even realising it.

It's about balance, complementing and pairs, which is why I've harped on about Carrick and in other threads I've harped on about Gerrard & Alonso, Carrick & Scholes last year and even Sidwell and Harper, they are all balanced and complimenting pairings. I also bang on about football being played as pairs because it is all over the pitch. Central defenders operate as a pair, RB & RM operate as a pair, forwards operate as a pair and so on. If that pairing is unbalanced and 1 player doesn't complement the other you have problems in that area and even more so if 1 half of it isn't good enough. And unfortunately JJ doesn't complemet or balance any of the other sub quality midfield players that we have.

IMHO it would be exactly the same but worse for Lampard at Spurs because he wouldn't get the support, protection or quality of CM player he has around him at Chelsea.

So true. Look at England with Richards and SWP down the right operating as a unit (forgetting the Russia game). Italy with Pirlo and Gattuso in the middle.

What Jenas needs is someone positionally strong, able on the ball and can prompt with intelligent passing. Someone like Carrick, Barry, Alonso. Ok so we're not going to get any of those players but I'm sure there's one out there.

 

[TaoistMonkey]

Jenas is shit

jenas is good

jenas is the best

jenas is the worst

Jenas should be sold

Jenas should stay

etc....

one good game and you lot are all over him. its actually quite amusing

 

[barry]

Carrick carried Jenas. I remember that season well and people were still saying Jenas was shit. Why, if it was such a great pairing?

 

[walworthyid]

I don't know about the rest of you but i don't even remember there ever really being a Jenas and Carrick partnership? I am fairly sure that apart from when TT was injured that the midfield in 2005-2006 was

Jenas (Lennon sub) Carrick.......TT(Brown/JJ).........Davids (TT)

Correct me if I am wrong but he scored 7 goals that season from the right wing?

I think that Jenas has alot of talent but is not naturally a leader, he is not able to change games with his performances. He would be much better if he had the right partner and played in the right system. if he has a player who can sit behind him and cover for him he will thrive.

Whether Ramos agrees is another story.