Rue this :liar:

...In Jol we trust!

I was as depressed and frustrated as anyone else after the game. But I’m just about managing to get some distance from all that emotion now – and I hope other people will also be beginning to recover a bit of perspective. I’ve just read through all the posts from people immediately after the game. Some of them, I realize, should not be taken too seriously – goodness knows what I might have said had I been in a fit state to write anything at all a few hours ago.
But anyone who reacted to that game by saying things like ‘the squad isn’t good enough, this and that player was rubbish and should be offloaded’ is way, way off beam in my view. This was a freak result brought about by an absolutely wondrous goal by Martins and a fantastic goalkeeping display by Given.
The football we played in the first 20 minutes of both halves was sensational. Our passing game can often be slick and superficially attractive without every being really dangerous. But this was a different matter – we showed real pace and penetration and wouldn’t have been flattered by scoring four or five in the first half alone (our football was infinitely superior to that against Charlton when we did actually score five). Nor do I think the team can be faulted for its attitude – the marking at the back post for their first goal was dreadful, true, and the game could have been totally different had we not conceded then. But in the second half I saw absolutely no sign of the complacency or lack of urgency that other people seem to have identified – we were hungry for the third goal that would have killed it, which is as it should be, since all too often in the past we have sat back and invited a team on to us once we have gone ahead.
While the Champions League places are surely out of reach now, this team is still perfectly capable of qualifying for the UEFA Cup by league position – and pushing further onward and upward next season. Those who think we desperately need to buy a left winger should consider our performance today. Malbranque’s movement and perceptive passing was one of the most dynamic elements, the more so because he can crop up almost anywhere. He can give us width on the left and can go on the outside to cross with his left peg or can play in the hole – or switch positions with Lennon as and when needed. That kind of fluidity and unpredictability is difficult to defend against. I honestly think the midfield is clicking and that it should not be disturbed at the moment by another new import. I would have picked Zokora today alongside the Hudd and am looking forward to seeing what Jenas can do alongside Tom but, that said, I thought Tainio today had by far his best game of a hitherto disappointing season.
In conclusion: we all want to kick the cat, bang our heads against the wall and scream blue murder in the aftermath of such a galling defeat. But don’t take it out on the players, still less BMJ. I believe in this team more firmly tonight than I ever believed in last season’s team and I am convinced this is the best squad we have had since the 1960s. The future is bright, believe me.

That game should have been an easy win for us, we outclassed them! We had more shots in the first 13 minutes than they had the entire game. But to blame the forwards is basically his cheap way of saying "i'm just waiting for a chance to put my rent boy keane back in" (i do actually like keane but not as much as jol does). The fact that the goalkeeper no longer actually saves anything must be a worry (not saying the goals were his fault, but aren't top goalies meant to stop good shots going in?) and also, lee should not go near our first team! As for Chimbonda, today he was poor, while Davenport and Dawson, though each is good individually, are jsut all wrong together as they have no leader next to them (those who call Dawson a leader are misguided, being brave doesn't mean you can captain a team). King is needed and fast! Also, given that Huddlesotne is clearly playing higher up the pitch, it would be nice to see Tainio actually carry the water a bit more and stop being the slow fool that he is! I have no complaints with Lennon who looked lively for his first start in ages, Defoe was magnificent in my opinion and Berbatov, while tiring in the last 20 (when we needed him most, admittedly) still was at the centre of all our best moves and got a goal too. Huddlestone not at his best but an improvement on some recent games,and Malbranque, well he has too do better than that i'm afraid. I knowhe laid off the goal but he had awful first touch today!

So what you are basically saying is; we were simply unlucky and are now trying (desperately) to find a scapegoat? Interesting... Interesting indeed.

We wernt unlucky, today we were poor at the back and awesome going forward, if we could find a regular balance between the two we'd be in the top six no problem, my concerns are Dawson and Robo at the mo, Robo needs dropping even if its just to give him a rest and maybe a kick up the arse "your not undropable" message, Dawson needs to learn when to put his foot in and when to stand off, he also wants to stop that long ball he does so often, too many times he stands off and watches a 25 yarder go past him and hit the back of the net, shocking.
I wish we'd stop buying midiocre players and instead, target the players we desperatly need and buy them for the price their worth!, theres a reason Man U payed that much for Carrick and look at them go this season, find your weak point, identify the solution then BUY IT, i dont want to see any more kids comming in for the 1st team now, weve got enough and we/they need some experienced quality around them.
Malbranque was fantasic today as was Defoe, i dont think there are two cooler players than Chimbonda and Berbs on the plannet, they make it look effortless and rarely do wrong, Lennons got eyebrows like the hulk and feet like speedy gonzalas but neither helped him do much today and for all his effort was a little disapointing.
We so desperatly need a left winger of quality and experience this Jan so that malbranque can play center in front of Hudd, for those who dont think we need 1 or width just look where our 1st goal came from today and the space there was when Steed played out left and stayed there.
We have got some quality and a good core to build on, its the mediocrity thats letting us down so stop buying it.

Sometimes you have to hold your hands up and say its not our day. Lee is obviously not exactly what we need in that position but things are improving all the time. Of course there is a big whole left in our defence when King. Simply buy Curtis Davies(As somebody who's Dad has a Luton season ticket (shame!) I used to watch him before he transfered to West Brom and he is the real deal. No doubt about that) This team played in periods yesterday like we all know they can. We have played a lot worse in the past and won games. I do not think that we can point the finger at any particular player for this result. What are the chances of Martins doing that again? and Defoe's shot hitting the post at the end? It could easily have gone the other way but at least we created....If we were not doing this there would be reason to worry. Steed is looking better every game after his hernea op. I really look forward to JJ's return. A couple of quality transfers and we will be there and then a few games with them all fit (fingers crossed) and we will all be loving it. We have a tough time ahead over the next few games in all competitions (still!!) but this squad has what it takes. I agree with StokeSpur that we must only sign the best from now on but it is hard to find the best without paying the most in a market where there are not many top players available. COYS!!!

Robinson needs to be dropped simple as that, no competition for him, he is useless, so is tanio,ghaly,davenport,lee

i felt our midfield was poor getting back for the butt goal, and as always someone scores a contender for goal of the season against robbo from distance, i wonder if people have discovered a chink in his armor?

StokeSpur - absolutely spot on................

Spot on fella, nice post

I agree with Topaz that Malbranque was excellent. If we have 7 or 8 million pounds to spare, it's clear to me we should not spend it on Ashley Young to play on the left. We let in 2 silly goals, and there must therefore be something needed in defence. Chelsea are doing badly ( in relative terms) this season because Terry is not there. When Rio Ferdinand was out Man U started losing. We are defending less well because Ledley King is not there. We need to buy 1 or 2 defenders. I don't know who they should be, and arguably some of the names mentioned are no better than those we already have , and overpriced, but if we can't find the right people now, we should be looking in the Summer.

Jol also made this comment in an article on the Sportinglife web site.

"We are not as strong as last year collectively, I can't recall conceding three goals."

We sold one player of note (Carrick) and brought in several. So why are we not as strong as last year and what is the root cause? Is it our injuries? Is it because we tinkered with the side too much early on? Is it because we are playing more games this season? Is it because we bought poorly?

I would be interested in what you all think.

too much tinkering, we should pick our best eleven and stick to it barring injuries and suspensions IMO

Good of you to bring this up, we do miss carrick a lot people who dont know much about footie say the hud is 10000% times better and back that up with "he has already sored 3 goals". The hud is a great talent and has the ability to go beyond Carrick but thats first a few seasons away.

And i do beleive we are not doing aswel due do King & Jenas not being able to start

I guess like all of us the disappointment of the result is only matched by the your wondering how in a game that we dominated we could come up second best.

I said last week that our forwards are becoming some kind of 'luxury' that we can afford. Basically, they are not giving us the return they should. Whilst i would not doubt that they all have talent to greater or lesser degrees to me our league position rests on their shoulders. In otherwords, if you don't take your chances you don't win games. Our forwards don't do this but seem to be safe in the knowledge that another chance will come along and maybe, maybe then 'I'll stick it away'. After 20 odd chances created yesterday just how many goals should have been scored. Or rather how many chances are needed by our forwards to score?

A comment by Andy Gray left me speachless yesterday when the stats of Defoe were shown. 8 shots, 4 on target, 1 goal. he said they 'were pretty good weren't they?'. I would suggest that no they weren't and they are symptomatic of our problems this season. When you talk about top strikers I think of the likes of Ian Rush as one of the very best in my time. Why? because he didn't need 8 shots to score. often 1 shot was 1 goal and the game was over. As a result, Liverpool could concentrate on keeping the opposition out and controlling possession. In contrast, we are playing a gung-ho type of match to create enough chances to win a game. Whilst this is pleasing to the neutrals it is leaves us exposed to the 'sucker punch' as I have read this morning. No one is saying that finishing is an easy business as many have failed but neither is being a goalkeeper or defender at the highest level. It is all to frequently the case that the criticisms and let's face it, the blame, falls at the feet of the defenders /keeper or to a lesser extent the midfield as three were conceded.

Without wishing to diverge from my main point which is our finishing I would quickly like to mention the back 8 so to speak. Starting with the keeper, Robbo should and I believe would have done better for the first and thrid goals. To me, both are good examples of something that goes unnoticed my many but is essential to goalkeeping and that is footwork. This season Robbo seems to have lost it a bit and therefore is not reaching or reacting well enough to shots. Solution is more work in training.

Apart from Chimbonda sticking his nose in (and gloves) where he shouldn't both full backs did well and any criticism of lee for example is not justifiable based on yesterday as he frequenlty made good choices and did his job effectively which is to defend.

The two centre-halves must share blame for goals 1 and 2 at least. Dawson loves to stick his head in where it hurts but on occasions he doesn't get tight enough. This was why martins scored. A top-defender easily blocks a shot like that. I repeat the words top and easily. Dawson has potential but without ledley his lacks that internal voice that tells him to go there or when to make the tackle etc. Most defensive partnerships work like that whereone is more commanding or directs more than the other. Davenport was not awake for the first but should Robbo have been beaten from there? I say no.

The midfield were fairly good and lets face it they had a major part in the goals and the other 20 or so chances so could they do more? Well yes, and that is maintain possession still more. Doing this pull teams apart when movement is used (like the first 20 mins) and even stubborn teams will leave space to exploit when we do this. The best example of this (sadly for us) are the Goons who do it week after week.

So once, again with 20 or so chances is two goals a satisfactory return? I say no. Was 20 chances a reflection of our domination? Probably it was. To finish top 4-6, win a European trophy or a domestic one should a striker in the EPL expect 8 chances to score once or in otherwords should the strike force (and other attacking players) expect 20 chances to see off a team? Of course not. When you score a goal first the opposition is faced with the choice of changing tactics and often leaves themselves open to be caught again. We did this a number of times last year even when not playing well. This season because of a below standard return from our forwards we can't do this and we therefore aren't getting the results we hope for.

Come forwards it's time you sorted this out and then we wil progress again.

We have done that, i beleive the "tinkering" you are talking about has all been down to injuries. Davenport for King, Tanio in and out all the time, Ghaly for Lennon. The only real tactical adjustment has been Lee in for BAE.

chances on stats can be deceptive, as it tells you nothing about the quality of the chance.

They had 3 half-chances and scored from all of them. We had 20+ chances, but most of those were half chances too. When you look at the quality of the chances available, you are forced to conceed an element of luck in the finishing.

That said, I was unhappy at how they fashioned the 3 half chances. First chance was a cheap free kick given away that we didn't defend well from. Second one was the midfield getting caught high up the pitch leaving Dawson exposed, and final one was actually good play from Newcastle, but again you have to question our midfield a bit, it was played through them too easily.

All were excellent finishes though, really clinical stuff, but on another day how many of those come off? Not all 3 I'll bet you!

We played well above our wieght last season and got good results in poor performances. This season we dont seem to have the same luck and we are even losing games we are playing well in. We cant score or win away and we dont seem to be taking our chances. Also I think it really shows that the depth outside our first 11 is crap. Tinkering has nothing to do with it, Rafa seems to tinker all the time yet they still did the double on us and are still going to qualify for Champs League and are 11 points clear of us. I think we need to stop finding excuses and admit that some of our players are just not upto it. Jol is great, Robbo, Daws, Chimbo, King, Jenas, Hudd, Lennon, Defoe, Keane, Berbatov are all great we just need to bring in better quality players to work with these guns.

It's taken me a while to get over the disappointment and think about what went wrong objectively.

For the most part, we were simply unlucky. For all Given's brilliance, he was beaten four or five times by shots that agonisingly crept an inch the wrong side of the post. Defoe was unlucky twice there, most notably when he hit the post, but Berbatov and Huddlestone were unlucky too. Also, Solano got very lucky with a late block.

Second, blaming the defence for Newcastle's goals is harsh. Especially the Martins goal, which is as good a strike of a ball as I've ever seen in the flesh. Although Defoe's shot which came back off the post was nearly as good.

Is there a problem? Well, yes - central midfield. Huddlestone did his job, with some lovely balls to start off attacks (especially the ball to Malbranque for Defoe's goal.) But his lack of pace was cruelly exposed for the two second half Newcastle goals. At that moment, you need a strong, fast physical defensive midfielder. Huddlestone is not that man and neither is Tainio.

Like Carrick before him, Huddlestone needs protection. Carrick performed best with Davids alongside him until the very end of last season, where he started to forge an effective partnership with Jenas. So, Jenas might be the right partner for Huddlestone - or perhaps Zokora will be the man.

What was clear yesterday is that Tainio couldn't quite do what was asked of him, either defensively or in supporting the strikers. His passing was predictable and he declined to shoot in promising positions.

It's a shame, because I've been a fan of his, but this season we are trying to step up our game, and Tainio doesn't seem able to make that step.

And on the plus side, the front four of Malbranque, Lennon, Berbatov and Defoe were wonderful.