Juande Ramos - Tactical Genius?

[SpurSince57]

Sammy Lee and the new Bolton coach whose name scapes me?. I watched Bolton vs Bayern and Man United and it is very unlikely that Sammy would have obtained those results when they were leaking goals left and right against much worse opposition.
I am pretty sure that Juande Ramos, even with the same players Jol had would do a better job, cause he is a better coach IMO. Could Houllier win the CH L with the squad Benitez inherited? Could Rainieri beat the Premiership total number of points with Mourinho squad?.

I agree with you that the most significant factor is the players, no doubt about it, but coaches play an important part too. That's why some are considered better and train the best teams, although there are a few that could be doing a great job at bigger clubs and don't get the chance.

Lee had a dream of getting Bolton to play more attractive football. It didn't work (although in fairness Bolton began shipping goals at an alarming rate about halfway through last season, when Allardyce was in charge). Megson has simply gone back to what Bolton always did best, playing at a high tempo, closing down, and kicking people. Also, for reasons best known to himself Hitzfeld took Ribéry off, and suddenly Bayern looked nowhere near as effective. That was very much a second-string Bolton, too. To tell truth, I've watched a fair bit of Bundesliga this season and I've not been that impressed.

I'm not at all convinced by Benitez. In the EPL Liverpool still look no more realistic title challengers than they did under Houllier. Yes, they won the CL, but that was because Milan unaccountably imploded; replay that game a hundred times and there would only be one result. Chelsea came no closer to the CL final under Mourinho than they did under Ranieri, and who knows how well Ranieri might have done if he'd been handed £70m to spend? Chelsea would certainly have been a lot more attractive to watch.

 

[Juande_Ramos]

Liverpool will challenge this season, thing that Houllier never managed in 6 years. Winning a CH L medal with the likes of Traore or Biscan in the side is a sign of a special coach. Mourinho and Benitez have won more medals in 5 years than what Houllier and Rainieri will win in their whole career put together. Another issue is their style of play, rather boring to be honest.

 

[yanno]

I'm not at all convinced by Benitez. In the EPL Liverpool still look no more realistic title challengers than they did under Houllier. Yes, they won the CL, but that was because Milan unaccountably imploded; replay that game a hundred times and there would only be one result. Chelsea came no closer to the CL final under Mourinho than they did under Ranieri, and who knows how well Ranieri might have done if he'd been handed £70m to spend? Chelsea would certainly have been a lot more attractive to watch.

I agree. Benitez's buys from Spain have been a mixed bag: Reina, Torres and Xabi Alonso have worked, but were established players, known to most fans in Europe, and the crucial part was that, as a Spaniard, Rafa was able to entice them to England; Sissoko looks very good, but is massively underused for some reason, and was known to Benitez from his time at Valencia; but many of the others, eg Josemi, Nunez, Fabio Aurelio, Gonzalez, have not been successes.

Also, Benitez's tactical system is based on his Valencia team: two holding CMs with flair down the flanks. Unfortunately, this means he's failed to get the best out of Gerrard, as he doesn't like his CMs playing box-to-box and has therefore frequently stuck him wide right. Now, Gerrard has also been shite for England recently, but there's little doubt that Benitez has failed to integrate his best player, Gerrard, successfully into his club system.

PS it could be argued that the arrival of Torres means Stevie G is now Liverpool's second best player... :grin:

 

[sloth]

I agree. Benitez's buys from Spain have been a mixed bag: Reina, Torres and Xabi Alonso have worked, but were established players, known to most fans in Europe, and the crucial part was that, as a Spaniard, Rafa was able to entice them to England; Sissoko looks very good, but is massively underused for some reason, and was known to Benitez from his time at Valencia; but many of the others, eg Josemi, Nunez, Fabio Aurelio, Gonzalez, have not been successes.

Also, Benitez's tactical system is based on his Valencia team: two holding CMs with flair down the flanks. Unfortunately, this means he's failed to get the best out of Gerrard, as he doesn't like his CMs playing box-to-box and has therefore frequently stuck him wide right. Now, Gerrard has also been shite for England recently, but there's little doubt that Benitez has failed to integrate his best player, Gerrard, successfully into his club system.

PS it could be argued that the arrival of Torres means Stevie G is now Liverpool's second best player... :grin:

I also think Gerard has hampered Benitez. I agree with you that he doesn't fit into the coaches preferred model. His status however means he's the one player Rafa can't afford to fall out with or to ship out. I think he was happy when it looked like he was going to Chelsea. I think a Benitez Liverpool would be better without Gerard than it is with him.

 

[joey55]

Sammy Lee and the new Bolton coach whose name scapes me?. I watched Bolton vs Bayern and Man United and it is very unlikely that Sammy would have obtained those results when they were leaking goals left and right against much worse opposition.
I am pretty sure that Juande Ramos, even with the same players Jol had would do a better job, cause he is a better coach IMO. Could Houllier win the CH L with the squad Benitez inherited? Could Rainieri beat the Premiership total number of points with Mourinho squad?.

I agree with you that the most significant factor is the players, no doubt about it, but coaches play an important part too. That's why some are considered better and train the best teams, although there are a few that could be doing a great job at bigger clubs and don't get the chance.

Could Mourinho have had the same points total withoout bringing in Ferrer, Carvalho, Drogba, Robben, Cech and Tiago? Benitez did win the CL with a largelly Houllier squad, but he also took Liverpool to a lower points total than Houllier ever achieved. With Sammy Lee it's difficult to tell, as he hasn't been given another job to prove his incompetence. As for the suggestion Ramos will do a better job than Jol, i think it is being very unfair on Ramos. I think it is highly unlikley he'll be able to match Jol, but it isn't Ramos he should come into the firing line for this. For Ramos to achieve over 65 pts next season will be a hell of a feet and to match Jols results when he had Ledley King fit, will take an incredible effort. I don't think we should be judging Ramos in that way. If we judge him alongsdie Jol then it's just asking for trouble, as if he doesn't deliver (which I doubt he will) then people will be calling for his head and we'll be back to square one. People should forget the comparisons with Jol. Personnally i'd be happy with Ramos if he got 60 pts next season (unless we make some fantastci purchases, which I can't see happening).

 

[Juande_Ramos]

I also think Gerard has hampered Benitez. I agree with you that he doesn't fit into the coaches preferred model. His status however means he's the one player Rafa can't afford to fall out with or to ship out. I think he was happy when it looked like he was going to Chelsea. I think a Benitez Liverpool would be better without Gerard than it is with him.

True

 

[THFCSPURS19]

God knows how I've found this.

Talk about an unearthed gem

 

[TaoistMonkey]

Duuuuude

 

[TaoistMonkey]

Actually, I'll re-open this but move it to general football. He still maybe a tactical genius!?

 

[Kendall]

Personally, I think anyone who bumps a thread from before they were even a member should be banned.

 

[Lilbaz]

Personally, I think anyone who bumps a thread from before they were even a member should be banned.

Why they didn't get a chance to reply when it was active?

 

[THFCSPURS19]

Personally, I think anyone who bumps a thread from before they were even a member should be banned.

No need to be a dick....

 

[LukaMotion]

No need to be a dick....

Haven't you met Kendall?

 

[Montasura]

Jesus. Kendall has been getting a hard time on here the last day or two!!!!

And top thread resurrecting. Its funny reading back on people excitement for Ramos at the time. Despite the now infamous start to his second season surely it was still better than the tedious bilge served up by AVB.

 

[sunnydelight786]

Jesus. Kendall has been getting a hard time on here the last day or two!!!!

And top thread resurrecting. Its funny trading back on people excitement for Ramos at the time. Despite the now infamous start to his second season surely it was still better than the tedious bilge served up by AVB.

The same kind of excitement that they have for Poch now....? Ramos at that time had a far bigger rep than Poch has now yet he still failed. Poch is no guarantee of success either regardless of what he done at Saints for a season and a half.....

 

[Montasura]

The same kind of excitement that they have for Poch now....? Ramos at that time had a far bigger rep than Poch has now yet he still failed. Poch is no guarantee of success either regardless of what he done at Saints for a season and a half.....

You may well be right. I'll support Poch, just as I will any Spurs manager (until a point anyway), and I think the early signs have been better than AVB. But it is noteworthy that we've had Ramos, AVB, and Poch (all foreign managers with high stock) yet Harry had the team playing better than the three of them (and I'm not a massive Harry fan either). Still early days with Poch though and he has started fairly well without the like of Bale, Modric, or VDV.

 

[Kendall]

No need to be a dick....

It was a joke, mate. Lighten up. I don't really think you should be banned.

 

[Kendall]

Jesus. Kendall has been getting a hard time on here the last day or two!!!!

And top thread resurrecting. Its funny reading back on people excitement for Ramos at the time. Despite the now infamous start to his second season surely it was still better than the tedious bilge served up by AVB.

They will never break me down!

 

[riggi]

#prayforkendall

 

[Kendall]

#prayforkendall

Shalom, my friend.