Juande Ramos - Yay or Nay?

[SouthLondonSpur]

I'm glad i waited to write after voting.

When I voted for Ramos to stay it was 31 for and about 38 against, another two pages and the vote is more realistic. We cannot sack him now, it would be a joke. I know we are a joke already, but that would be worse.

Someone posted earlier about the next four games being critical, absolutely. But they're no sure things in the prem.

God help us we need evrything he can offer (I'm not religous, just desperate). But dont sack JR just yet......

 

[monkeytastic]

We cannot sack him now, it would be a joke. I know we are a joke already, but that would be worse.

Someone posted earlier about the next four games being critical, absolutely. But they're no sure things in the prem.

God help us we need evrything he can offer (I'm not religous, just desperate). But dont sack JR just yet......

couldn't agree more. We need the continuity or it will be the death knell for the whole DOF structure. If Ramos can achieve something by xmas then he should be given the full season, if not, then someone else has to be brought in

 

[jimtheyid]

He should'nt be sacked now. But If things do not improve drastically, then it needs to be thought about. Because things can not get much worse.

 

[shelfmonkey]

Indeed... on paper, this group of players are the 5-7th best in the Premiership...

Maybe so, but a paper team is worthless, on grass they're nothing but manure!! How mant times does it have to be pointed out that it's obvious that the manager, be Jol, Ramos or the next unfortunate incumbent, does not have control over the comings and goings of players and the reason we've not progressed from the heady heights of The Godfather's two fifth place finishes IS BECAUSE THE DM AND CB DEFICIENCES HAVE NOT BEEN ADDRESSED, can anyone not see that the reason Jol went was because he didn't have control and had to make do with what he was given, and what he was given did not solve the problems that were clear to him and are still glaringly obvious now, if things don't change Ramos will head the same way and the next manager and the next and so on!!!!!

 

[mabolsa_ritchey]

We could have a new manager every week, they will still make the same mistakes that the previous ones were making.

We will turn this around, give him time.

 

[Chris12345]

Maybe so, but a paper team is worthless, on grass they're nothing but manure!! How mant times does it have to be pointed out that it's obvious that the manager, be Jol, Ramos or the next unfortunate incumbent, does not have control over the comings and goings of players and the reason we've not progressed from the heady heights of The Godfather's two fifth place finishes IS BECAUSE THE DM AND CB DEFICIENCES HAVE NOT BEEN ADDRESSED, can anyone not see that the reason Jol went was because he didn't have control and had to make do with what he was given, and what he was given did not solve the problems that were clear to him and are still glaringly obvious now, if things don't change Ramos will head the same way and the next manager and the next and so on!!!!!

So you're saying Ramos should be given time because he can't make a group of world class players into a decent team, and that Comolli should be fired for signing world class players?

Your argument is absolutely crazy!?

 

[Bonjour]

Thursday has certainly become make or break for Ramos.

I can't really see him staying if we're knocked out in Krakow.

 

[Krafty]

I still have faith in Ramos, although I am getting a little concerned about his player selection this season. Its almost like he is making big changes in the hope that one of them pays off, when I think he would be better off with some consistent team selections

 

[Lanh]

I never had faith in Ramos to start with. I knew very little about him.

However, I sat and was slated when I defended BMJ and said we shouldn't let him go, I was faced with a torrent of choice statements such as "BMJ isn't good enough to lace Ramos' shoes" and other similar pearls of wisdom.

I thought, "He must be really special with all the support he has from other fans who watch way more football than I do, so I'll give him a go".

10/11 months in I am appalled that we booted Martin, appalled by the lunacy of Ramos selections and apparent nonsensical instructions where the players don't appear to know what he wants them to do, appalled by the sheer strength of support and number of excuses pouring out to defend the guy who gave us our worst end to a season in many, many years and who has led us to our worst start for 53 years.

He's done nothing and it's getting worse and more bizarre by the minute.

I never feared relegation under Jol, not one single solitary time, but now I think it's a very real possibility because I just don't see how he is going to turn this around, the man looks completely devoid of ideas.

 

[PLTuck]

Ramos has 4 league games to turn it around for me. I'm holding on by my fingertips of confidence in him, and I think giving him 4 games is being generous. Only 5 wins since March? Not. fucking. good. enough. Losing 4-0 at home to fucking Birmingham?

Fuck the UEFA. Play the fucking reserves, I don't care, but we MUST win against at least 2 of Hull, Stoke and Bolton.

The most worrying thing is that we are creating so few clear chances. If we were raining chances on goal but they weren't coming off, then there is something to build on. We look totally clueless.

I'm all for stability, but not with this fool unless he gets a grip of this league and quickly. Never really wanted him in the first place. I have absolutely no idea who would want to come though. Would take Jol back in a heartbeat (never wanted him gone in the first place.) but it ain't gonna happen. Hiddink maybe? Advocaat? Billic? Keane?

Please Juande, make me eat my words.


PS : Fans were brilliant today! Well done to whoever went. :clap:

 

[wojch]

Hard choice. I went for the first option just because I want to believe. But I want to believe not because I'm a fool, but because I can actually see some potential... Now, I don't see it so it makes me a fool.

Let's do some FAQ...

Q: Is our league position caused by the fact that the players are not used to play with one another?

A: Yes, it is.

Q: If the above is true - why haven't Ramos played same team twice this season? Why do we always start with players out of their normal / natural position; with different formation etc?

A: ...

Q: 4-5-1? Now really, what are we gonna achieve playing this formation against teams like Pompey, Boro, Sunderland etc...?

A: 2 points?


I want to believe. Am I a dreamer or is it really gonna happen soon? Fingers crossed and let's hope for the best. After all - the only way is up!

 

[theaman]

Next three games are the test.

Hull-Stoke-Bolton.

Failure to win any of those and he might not be facing Arse***....

 

[spurs]

I want to believe but...it's becoming much harder.

3 league wins since the CC final is awful, as someone else pointed out he clearly failed to motivate his players at the end of last season.

To some extent, sending Gus out to do his interviews has probably maintained his good grace period with the fans. It makes him seem a bit more mysterious, he is never seen looking confused and clueless in interviews and also Gus is such a genuine and likeable man that he and indirectly Juande are forgiven to some extent. BUT I want JR to start doing his own interviews now.

Having a DoF system also lets Ramos off the hook to some extent as nobody knows if it was him, DC or DL who signed/didn't sign/sell the players. Did JR's plan revolve around finding a player to partner Modric in CM? We'll probably never know.

Its interesting/telling at this very early stage in the season, that Jol's Hamburg are top and Sevilla are 4th. Sevilla finished 5th last year (3 points behind Barca in 3rd). Which would suggest that the loss of Ramos did not hit them too hard.

Its scary that we have no cover at CB, any combination of our CM looks weak and our strikers are a mess.

I want to believe in JR for the sake of stability and becasue we have reshaped our squad to suit his 'style' of play. I hope he canturn it round but i'm having difficulty convincing myself.

 

[ginol@14]

im just concerned that lately ramos has been picking strange sides with LB playing LW and with only 1 striker up front which is not the tottenham way
also how jenas is captain is beyond me , the guy aint fit enough to wear a spurs shirt , if only he displayed a quarter of the grit and determination o'hara does i could like him but he consistantly goes missing when we need him most - our main problems are and always have been our centre midfield - the engine room
why buy modric then play him out of position to accomadate this bloody carthorse .
as long as he is picked cm we will never win a game
im so scared we are going down , this is the worst football i have seen since i got my season ticket back in the 90s!
no morale - no urgency - no class
its just a shame our fans are so good , still singing in the last min whilst the team gave up long before the 90th min

 

[rez9000]

Hard choice. I went for the first option just because I want to believe. But I want to believe not because I'm a fool, but because I can actually see some potential... Now, I don't see it so it makes me a fool.

Let's do some FAQ...

Q: Is our league position caused by the fact that the players are not used to play with one another?

A: Yes, it is.

Unfortunately, it's not as clear cut as that. They are professional football players, not a group of amateurs. Even if they aren't gelling, it still does not explain the limp performances we have been putting in. The only game where we have shown any real fight was against Chelsea. The other 7 games we have played this season have been poor. Way below the standard that a group of talented players can produce even if they don't know each other from Adam.

It's folly to suggest that Bentley can't cross because he and Bent aren't swapping snogging stories, or that Dawson's football intelligence has been eroded because he doesn't know Corluka well enough to cry on his shoulder about Fluffy, the tabby kitten he lost when he was 8.

On-pitch understanding is an important aspect of a team's strength, but it is only one of a number of factors that contribute to the effectiveness of that team

We are in a very, very difficult position as a club. We have a situation, which I commented on a few days previously in that we have a chairman whose hands appear tied by his past exploits and filibustering. Levy is really stuck between a rock and a hard place.

He has a very simple choice ahead of him now and, although I have no proof, I don't doubt that the following dilemma is running through his mind. His choise is either stick with Ramos or fire him. That's it. There is no other significant choice. However, he can do neither without incurring the bile that the press and a section of the fanbase will level at him.

Firing Ramos would invite unmitigated fury from the fans who will feel that we have once more made a costly error under Levy's watch ie the massive compensation package we would have to give Ramos (and along with him, our 'illustrious' Sporting Director). Something in the order of £20-25 million is a sum that could have very happily be spent on some sorely-needed additions to the squad. It would be half the transfer funds we received for the sales of Robbie and Bastardov. And the press would flay him alive over the manner in which the club went about removing Martin Jol, with a certain London newspaper drooling at the opportunity to grab their pound of flesh in retaliation for his (in my opinion) heavy-handed treatment of them.

However, sticking with Ramos while the club continued to underperform would also incur the wrath of the fans who will continue to feel angry at the prospect of the club being involved in a relegation fight. And who could blame them? At the end of the 06/07 season, if you had asked a Spurs fan if he/she could envisage being at the foot of the table, 18 months hence, they would have laughed. And the press' daggers would still be out, with a slight change of tune. No doubt they would question his decision-making over his coaching appointments and a certain London paper would still be hanging around to extract their pound of flesh, but will also have a most dangerous weapon: an element of vindication in their opinions.

Any person in that kind of dillemma would be running over them in his/her head continuously, and could very well become immobilised because of it.

There are two likely alternatives. One, the team start to perform. We start to climb the League and our blood pressures woud start to drop as a resurgence begins. This is Levy's win-win scenario. He would have shown faith in his manager, something he would be lauded for. And he would gain a measure of vindication for his decisions.

Two: Ramos himself decides to resign. However, few are the men who would willingly give up £20-25 million.

A third alternative is this: That Levy and Ramos negotiate Ramos resignation, with the proviso that Ramos receives his compensation package, but with the decision to part ways with Spurs being attributed to Ramos. This would save face for Daniel Levy, a very important consideration. Although this is pure conjecture, of course, is it outside the realms of possibility? I don't believe so. There is a very small part of me that believes that Ramos will not be at the club much longer, and that if he leaves in the next few weeks, it will be announced as a resignation, rather than a sacking.

 

[Spurs_Q8]

I've decided to not decide .. it's clear that it's not good to change the managers quickly, we could be ended with a few better results if new one comes, but later he would change the whole squad to sign his own players, then we would back again to the same situation .. as always.

although i like every player at Spurs and don't like to offend one of them as player, but i'm really surprised a manager with that profile rate a player like Ekotto and using Gilberto instead of Modric, Lennon, Campbell Giovani & Bent and them make crazy subs as always. After every defeat i was angry for a few hours and then i came in next day to see 'oh, for sure he will watch the game again and will learn' .. but nothing changed after 8 games of season, 2 pts after six game which it's the worst start for a club for more than 50 years.

I'm still very unhappy and i can't make a day as usual. we have no option other than back him, we should keep faith on him but he shouldn't keep his faith on some of his players, and he also should start to field his best XI in next league game to avoid more pressure on the players by leaving us in very poor position in christmas.

 

[piedpiper]

I was faced with a torrent of choice statements such as "BMJ isn't good enough to lace Ramos' shoes" and other similar pearls of wisdom.

I thought, "He must be really special with all the support he has from other fans who watch way more football than I do, so I'll give him a go".

10/11 months in I am appalled that we booted Martin, appalled by the lunacy of Ramos selections and apparent nonsensical instructions where the players don't appear to know what he wants them to do, appalled by the sheer strength of support and number of excuses pouring out to defend the guy who gave us our worst end to a season in many, many years and who has led us to our worst start for 53 years.

He's done nothing and it's getting worse and more bizarre by the minute.

I never feared relegation under Jol, not one single solitary time, but now I think it's a very real possibility because I just don't see how he is going to turn this around, the man looks completely devoid of ideas.[/quote]

Agree, i remember reading that exact quote on other sites as we defended jol. i conceded to greater wisdom as well. well where was the wisdom in that, we are where we are becuase we deserve it. The board cocked up.

 

[fac63]

The thing that needs to change is that we need to have some consistency and nothing changing (on the management front) so that we can become a decent team again. We are just a couple of players, and a mountain of confidence, away from it.

Yet how are we to find this consistency without running out a consistent starting XI? I'm in the US so I generally DVR the gams as they're on too early for me cuz I work nights as a chef. So I willfully avoid the internet and my soccer (again I'm here in the US) buddies' phone calls/texts until I get to squeeze watching the game into my schedule. And today when I sat down to the game and Gilberto (GILBERTO?) was at LM I just logged on to find out the inevitable result instead of agonizing through the details. I know we want to compete on all fronts, etc., but we've not got the squad of Chelsea or ManU. We've got training for evaluation, but come Saturday (or in this case Sunday), we've got to put out our best eleven and if it's not good enough after an hour, then take some chances with the bench. Continental tactical nous is all fine and good if you've got a deep squad of relatively equal players quality-wise OR if you've got league points in the pocket to play with, but as we've got neither, I think it's scandalous for JR to send out yet another speculative XI in the hopes of something magically clicking. IMO we've played one game out of six well this year--at Stamford Bridge-- so why not run those guys out there again and again to build off that performance until they prove it was a fluke.

And yes I realize that the squad is slightly different than that last Sunday in August by way of a couple of notable additions (Corluka & Pav) as well as injuries (King, Bale?), but instead of overhauling the whole formation/philosophy due to some minor changes, why not try to make the new variables fit into the only semblance of a functioning team that we've run out all year? I mean if the only healthy natural right back we've got (Gunter) is good enough to start at Stamford Bridge and produce a result, then how could he not have gotten a sniff since then? Yet today we push Corluka out there despite the fact that he's only looked comfortable at CB in order to accomadate who? Michael Dawson? Brilliant.

 

[Defsta]

Normally I would have voted The Goat, but this time I still believe in JR and he will make us better, maybe not until we get that bloody DM and Left midfielxder and maybe new striker, bu7t he will get us playing properly :think:

 

[mitch8the8spur]

obviously scolari will get sacked from chelsea and come to us in the next month