Kanoute Keen on Spurs move

[DC_Boy]

And DC, I'm sure they were evn less fans when the player Jol convinced them was surplus turned out to score 30+ goals last year and help knock us out of europe with a couple of goals.

Hi BC - the thing is I'm not sure the board needed persuading by Jol, I think he upset a lot of the Spus heirarachy past and present -

there's no doubt he has done brilliantly at Seville but as Joey says (though in a more in depth way) Spain ain't England.

He was part of the all star cast that took West Ham down (big plus mark to him for that :wink and we never really threatened the top 6 or winning trophies while he was with us (from memory) - of course neither scenario was 'his fault' - but I can tell you I know a few West Ham fans and none of them think Fredi was that great - and he wasn't that great with us either

And if he did burn his bridges with Jol, well it's as well we sold him because what good would having a disaffected FK on the bench have been?

The team did better without Fredi, whether we would have done even better had we kept him - who knows?

 

[tony0379]

well i yake iot berbatov is off after this move

 

[SpurSince57]

well i yake iot berbatov is off after this move

What move?

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I don't see why there is any contoversey concerning Kanoute. People seem to have developed selective memories where he is concerned. I really don't think he was under rated. I remember pretty much everyone being a Kanoute fan (like with all players there were the odd exceptions). And it wasn't just not just Spurs fans, but the media as well. His talents were there for everyone to see and I really don't ever rememeber people doubting that. But i also rememeber nearly every Spurs fan and all the media being very frustrated that despite his talents he didn't seem to impose himself on games physically. Hence it wasn't just at Spurs, or not just under Jol he never fullfilled his potential. He had 6 coaches and played for 2 clubs and never had the impact he should of. He was big, strong, quick and skillful so should have been a cross between Berbatov and Drogba. He should have physicaly dominated and stretched defenders for 90 mins every games, but never really did (though he was great at winning balls played up to him and superb at controlling the ball with his chest).

Why has that changed in Spain? Watch him play there and it's obvious. In Spain he is imposing. I've watched him 3 times recently and he is a physcially dominating presence in and around the box. And the reasons for this are pretty damn obvious as well. Just work you're way down the La Liga and Prem tables and compare CBs. Looking at the top 3 of the Prem is he really any quicker than the likes of Toure, Gallas, Ferdinand or Richards. Is he better in the air than any of the first choice CBs at those clubs? Yet compare him to the CBs at the top 3 clubs in Spain. He is much quicker than Cannavarro, Ramos, Marquez, Puyol, Cygan and Fuentes. He is also probably stronger in the air than all of them. It's a significant difference between the leagues in general. Check out his current teams CB pairings compared to ours. In La Liga he is able to impose himself on games in the way he should have done in the Prem. Hence he is much more successful.

There are numerous examples of strikers who are more suited to one league than another. Anelka and McCarthy are currently top Prem strikers who struggled in Spain, whilst Morientes and Forlan both flopped in the Prem and are now doing very well in Spain.

I disagree. Kanoute was not generally loved or respected on here - just look through this thread. You may not have under rated him and many of us didn't but many thougt he was a lazy stroller. Many thought Mido was a better player.

Kanoute wasn't always appreciated because people looked no further than his goal tally. His first season in Spain I don't think it was exceptional either but Ramos didn't give a shit, he could see that Kanoute influenced games and played for the team. He did the same for us but unfortunately he was playing in a vastly inferior side that wasn't always on his wavelength and his own goal tally suffered because he would move out wide or drop deep to hold up and create for others.

And the old chestnut that history is littered with players that do shit in one league but brilliant in another is cack. what history is littered with is quality players who have good seasons and great seasons. History is littered with players who fate conspires for and against (right team right season or otherwise for the negative). Kanoute did well in spain because he is a very good player who has strength, skill, vision - not because the defenders are worse than the EPL (in fact it's fucking laughable, just about all the spanish league CB's you list there are as fast and better defenders than Englands captain). And Toure was only just appearing regularly for arsenal and Richards was youth team right back for City when Kanoute was here. If he'd swapped the EPL for Greek League fair enough but to say defenders are weaker in Spain than here is wrong.

And he managed to score more times past our "superior defenders" than Berbatov did against Sevilla's.

 

[joey55]

I disagree. Kanoute was not generally loved or respected on here - just look through this thread. You may not have under rated him and many of us didn't but many thougt he was a lazy stroller. Many thought Mido was a better player.

Kanoute wasn't always appreciated because people looked no further than his goal tally. His first season in Spain I don't think it was exceptional either but Ramos didn't give a shit, he could see that Kanoute influenced games and played for the team. He did the same for us but unfortunately he was playing in a vastly inferior side that wasn't always on his wavelength and his own goal tally suffered because he would move out wide or drop deep to hold up and create for others.

And the old chestnut that history is littered with players that do shit in one league but brilliant in another is cack. what history is littered with is quality players who have good seasons and great seasons. History is littered with players who fate conspires for and against (right team right season or otherwise for the negative). Kanoute did well in spain because he is a very good player who has strength, skill, vision - not because the defenders are worse than the EPL (in fact it's fucking laughable, just about all the spanish league CB's you list there are as fast and better defenders than Englands captain). And Toure was only just appearing regularly for arsenal and Richards was youth team right back for City when Kanoute was here. If he'd swapped the EPL for Greek League fair enough but to say defenders are weaker in Spain than here is wrong.

And he managed to score more times past our "superior defenders" than Berbatov did against Sevilla's.

I never suggested in even anyway that the defenders in the Prem are superior. Why do you consistently distort what people say? I've pulled you up on it so many times, yet you continue to do it. It's just infuriating. I pointed out that physical attributes are more prominent in Prem defenders than their La Liga counterparts. Also I didn't say Kanoute was "loved" or "respected", but that most people recognised his obvious talents. It was rare to see anyone criticising his ability, but fans would often be critical of his failure to make the most of that ability. As for your comments about Toure and Richards, i was making a comparison of the physical attributes of the current top 3 sides CBs, in La Liga and the Prem. Toure and Richards both play for clubs currently in the top 3 of the Prem. But if you want, just swap them for Distin and Campbell who were playing at Arsenal and City when Kanoute was here. The point is still the same, we play a more physical brand of football.

 

[nickchrissi]

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=22767

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I never suggested in even anyway that the defenders in the Prem are superior. Why do you consistently distort what people say? I've pulled you up on it so many times, yet you continue to do it. It's just infuriating. I pointed out that physical attributes are more prominent in Prem defenders than their La Liga counterparts. Also I didn't say Kanoute was "loved" or "respected", but that most people recognised his obvious talents. It was rare to see anyone criticising his ability, but fans would often be critical of his failure to make the most of that ability. As for your comments about Toure and Richards, i was making a comparison of the physical attributes of the current top 3 sides CBs, in La Liga and the Prem. Toure and Richards both play for clubs currently in the top 3 of the Prem. But if you want, just swap them for Distin and Campbell who were playing at Arsenal and City when Kanoute was here. The point is still the same, we play a more physical brand of football.

Joey's dictionary:

Distort - Disagree. Point out the inacuracy.

I just think that if you are suggesting Kanoute thrived in Spain because the defenders were less imposing it is wrong. Kanoute is not kevin Davies or James Beattie, his game is not just about physicality - it is just one facit that makes him quite unique and why he was unusual - it is about the skillset he has combined with the strength. Very rare. And I thought he thrived here too and was massively undervalued. The fact that he was sold for 4mil or so would support this wouldn't it. I am sure Kanoute had seasons where he scored more league goals in the EPL than Berbatov did last season for us (11). Add that to the slightly superior skillset/attitude/consistancy Kanoute brought. Berbatov was raved about as a 28m player, and picked for the team of the season. Was Kanoute given even half the praise.

 

[The Apprentice]

Fuck Kanoute, get Steffen Iversen back.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Fuck Kanoute, get Steffen Iversen back.

It seems to have been a week for spurs old boys doesn't it. Luke fucking Young, Simon davies, Pamarot and then Iverson last night.

I was a bit miffed we let Pamarot go as I thought he was decent enough rb but would have made an excellent CB. Certainly good cover for both.

 

[SpurSince57]

You may be sure, but you'd be wrong. He scored 11 goals for the Spammers in 2001-2002 and 2002-2003. Berbatov scored 12 for us last season. It should have been a good deal more.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

1 goal hardly warrants the 24mil value difference though does it. And Berbatov was playing in a slightly better side as well. I think you get my point ? Do you think that as players there is 20+ mil difference between Berbatov and kanoute ? or even 10 mil.

 

[DC_Boy]

Another thing to compare is Berb's assists last season - was it 12? Also of course Berbs scored a fair few in Cups.

I certainly agree Kanoute at £4m was a bargain for Seville - if Berbs was worth £28m he's not 7 times the player, but as we know prices are so much dependent on buyer/seller needs.

We got Berbs for roughly 2.5 times the price of FK, he's not 2.5 times the player, but hey we can sell him for more than we paid for, and if I remember correctly we even turned a small profit on FK

 

[SpurSince57]

1 goal hardly warrants the 24mil value difference though does it. And Berbatov was playing in a slightly better side as well. I think you get my point ? Do you think that as players there is 20+ mil difference between Berbatov and kanoute ? or even 10 mil.

I find Berbatov about as frustrating as I did Kanoute (and Mido, for that matter).

But all this is academic. Kanoute signed a contract extension until 2010 in August, and in the wildly improbable event of del Nido selling him to anyone, us in particular, the asking price will be closer to £20m.

 

[joey55]

Joey's dictionary:

Distort - Disagree. Point out the inacuracy.

I just think that if you are suggesting Kanoute thrived in Spain because the defenders were less imposing it is wrong. Kanoute is not kevin Davies or James Beattie, his game is not just about physicality - it is just one facit that makes him quite unique and why he was unusual - it is about the skillset he has combined with the strength. Very rare. And I thought he thrived here too and was massively undervalued. The fact that he was sold for 4mil or so would support this wouldn't it. I am sure Kanoute had seasons where he scored more league goals in the EPL than Berbatov did last season for us (11). Add that to the slightly superior skillset/attitude/consistancy Kanoute brought. Berbatov was raved about as a 28m player, and picked for the team of the season. Was Kanoute given even half the praise.

No, when I say distort, I mean that you misrepresent what people say. For example, in this thread you've decided that I said that defenders in Spain are worse than in the Prem. That is blatantly distorting what i said. You've then suggested i said that Kanoute was "loved" or "respected", which again isn't what I said. In your latest post you've suggested that i said Kanoute's games is just about physicallity, which again isn't what i said. So basically, you do distort what has been posted and you do it frequently. I just don't see why. It's like you are desperate to find any angle from which to argue, to the point that you'll interpret what has been posted however you like.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

No, when I say distort, I mean that you misrepresent what people say. For example, in this thread you've decided that I said that defenders in Spain are worse than in the Prem. That is blatantly distorting what i said. You've then suggested i said that Kanoute was "loved" or "respected", which again isn't what I said. In your latest post you've suggested that i said Kanoute's games is just about physicallity, which again isn't what i said. So basically, you do distort what has been posted and you do it frequently. I just don't see why. It's like you are desperate to find any angle from which to argue, to the point that you'll interpret what has been posted however you like.

No, as always Joey, I was just disagreeing with you. Distorting is what you often do. Like in the thread where we were discussing the effect making 30 mil profit and you suggested that I was saying that would give us 30 mil more to spend this year when what I actually said was that making 30 mil profit would almost certainly have an influence on future investment and budgetary planning and not have no influence whatsoever as you had claimed.

You do it alot joey, that and try "you don't understand" condescending bullshit.

I understand that you were saying that the spanish league suited Kanoute more than the english league because defenders were "different" - it didn't and that wasn't the reason. he is just a fucking good player who had a manager that appreciated this and made him the fulcrum of a very good team, which maximised his potential. If he had played for us last season I think he would have had a blinder too, but that is just my opinion - I am not stating it as fact.

 

[joey55]

No, as always Joey, I was just disagreeing with you. Distorting is what you often do. Like in the thread where we were discussing the effect making 30 mil profit and you suggested that I was saying that would give us 30 mil more to spend this year when what I actually said was that making 30 mil profit would almost certainly have an influence on future investment and budgetary planning and not have no influence whatsoever as you had claimed.

You do it alot joey, that and try "you don't understand" condescending bullshit.

I understand that you were saying that the spanish league suited Kanoute more than the english league because defenders were "different" - it didn't and that wasn't the reason. he is just a fucking good player who had a manager that appreciated this and made him the fulcrum of a very good team, which maximised his potential. If he had played for us last season I think he would have had a blinder too, but that is just my opinion - I am not stating it as fact.

:roll: Sounds like it.

You may have been disagreeing with me, but I'm simply asking you to disagree with me over things that i've said, rather than things you claim I've said. I didn't say La Liga defenders are worse than those in the Prem, yet you are arguing as if I did. So you have distorted what i said and then disagreed with it. You disagreed that Kanoute was "generally loved and respected," yet i never said he was. So again you've distorted what i've said in order to disgree with it. I don't mind you diagreeing with me, it's when you try to support your arguments by suggesting ive said things I haven't that i find annoying.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

:roll: Sounds like it.

You may have been disagreeing with me, but I'm simply asking you to disagree with me over things that i've said, rather than things you claim I've said. I didn't say La Liga defenders are worse than those in the Prem, yet you are arguing as if I did. So you have distorted what i said and then disagreed with it. You disagreed that Kanoute was "generally loved and respected," yet i never said he was. So again you've distorted what i've said in order to disgree with it. I don't mind you diagreeing with me, it's when you try to support your arguments by suggesting ive said things I haven't that i find annoying.

But Joey you said this a few posts ago:

"I remember pretty much everyone being a Kanoute fan."

I think I could be forgiven as construing that as you suggesting he was generally loved and respected.

I think sometimes you state stuff and then when it gets queeried you are incapable of saying "yeah ok maybe that wasn't quite right" and arguing on and on unecessarily. Part of your standard banter is that it is others that argue for the sake of it when it is often you that refues to accept another point of view in any shape or form. Your posts are often very well constructed and I always enjoy reading them but often you have a tendancy to state opinion as fact.

I am pretty sure that everyone wasn't a fan of Kanoute. Or even appreciated what a good player he was. Certainly I have argued through whole threads with various people in here on the subject of Kanoute (I think even SS will remember some of them). Admittedly some of them were the egyptian chat room cosa nostra that followed him around
but there were plenty of others and several muppets around me at the lane would constantly moan about the "lazy ****."

 

[Bus-Conductor]

And Joey
It's probably time to get a new avitar ?

 

[joey55]

But Joey you said this a few posts ago:

"I remember pretty much everyone being a Kanoute fan."

I think I could be forgiven as construing that as you suggesting he was generally loved and respected.

I think sometimes you state stuff and then when it gets queeried you are incapable of saying "yeah ok maybe that wasn't quite right" and arguing on and on unecessarily. Part of your standard banter is that it is others that argue for the sake of it when it is often you that refues to accept another point of view in any shape or form. Your posts are often very well constructed and I always enjoy reading them but often you have a tendancy to state opinion as fact.

I am pretty sure that everyone wasn't a fan of Kanoute. Or even appreciated what a good player he was. Certainly I have argued through whole threads with various people in here on the subject of Kanoute (I think even SS will remember some of them). Admittedly some of them were the egyptian chat room cosa nostra that followed him around
but there were plenty of others and several muppets around me at the lane would constantly moan about the "lazy ****."

You are just unbelievale, you desperatley look for anything to cling onto to maintain an argument. In the very next sentance I balanced that by saying people were also frustrated that he didn't impose himself on games.

" His talents were there for everyone to see and I really don't ever rememeber people doubting that. But i also rememeber nearly every Spurs fan and all the media being very frustrated that despite his talents he didn't seem to impose himself on games"

There is a difference between loving and respecting a player and being fans but frustrated by him.

But regardless that wasn't the only distortion was it?. I didn't say Spannish defenders were worse than those in the Prem. You have just accussed me of being incapable of saying "yeah ok maybe that wasn't quite right." Yet why have we been arguing this evening? Simply because of your refusal to do just that. At no point today have I tried to debate the issue's of the thread (ie Kanoute). All I've done is point out that you have distorted what i've said. But, rather than acknowledge this and say "yeah ok maybe that wasn't quite right," you've desperately tried to argue on. Hence, I say you argue for the sake of it. Surely you can see your own hypocracy. You are doing exaclty what you've just accussed me of doing.

 

[$hoguN]

if Berbatov goes, as its starting to look like he will... Can anyone seriously say Kanoute coming back would be a bad idea?