Lamela Surgery

[arunspurs]

Lamela's had 4 seasons with us.

True...helps stress my point even more

 

[THFCSPURS19]

True...helps stress my point even more

If you're saying in 15/16, he was still a 'long way off', then that's nonsense.

 

[arunspurs]

If you're saying in 15/16, he was still a 'long way off', then that's nonsense.

He played well but never did enough to win games singlehandedly.

A very simple & to the point comparison between Lamela & Son

Son in PL

Lamela in PL

The only real change is Son is in XI for Lamela. Given Kane only missed handful over 3 seasons, lets say these 2 more or less would have played behind Kane. Agree Son did play few games as striker, but still this stat is crystal clear.

We win more points per game with Son, score more goals, disciplinary is better than when we play Lamela.

I understand the sentiment around Lamela. He is a team player, but so is Son. He runs as much like a dog as Lamela. But Son does his dog work in the right part of the pitch to do what he is supposed to do - create, assist, score goals

 

[Shadydan]

I was talking about 2016/17

He started 6 out of 9 games.
First 3 games, he merited it after a good preseason + Dembele was unavailable
Last 3 games, he started after Kane was injured.

Agree, he did start 28 times in 2015/16, when Son was injured & not up to scratch.

A player not playing up to scratch normally means they're not first choice...if Lamela was playing ahead of Son it means he was a guaranteed starter. Also he wasn't playing because Kane got injured as when Kane was fit he was playing as well. Also Dembele and Lamela play in different positions.

 

[arunspurs]

A player not playing up to scratch normally means they're not first choice...if Lamela was playing ahead of Son it means he was a guaranteed starter. Also he wasn't playing because Kane got injured as when Kane was fit he was playing as well. Also Dembele and Lamela play in different positions.

Lamela was playing ahead of Son because Son like Lamela got injured at a critical time. He had a bright start with a match winner against Palace, but got injured. Son had to bide his time. But when he got his second chance he took it. How many chances Lamela has had ? You would have thought he would kick on in 2016/17. He was a disappointment. After goal against Everton in 1st game, deteriorated & and by 4th PL game lost his starting place.

I have quoted the stats above. Sometimes stats don't tell the story. But in this case, its very very clear.
Lamela though had a reasonably good season (compared to his own standards previous years) is failing to hit the heights.

When Lamela is back & fit in October, he will not walk into XI. If Poch goes & out buys likes of Barkley or Lemar, he will be behind those two as well.

 

[Shadydan]

Lamela was playing ahead of Son because Son like Lamela got injured at a critical time. He had a bright start with a match winner against Palace, but got injured. Son had to bide his time. But when he got his second chance he took it. How many chances Lamela has had ? You would have thought he would kick on in 2016/17. He was a disappointment. After goal against Everton in 1st game, deteriorated & and by 4th PL game lost his starting place.

I have quoted the stats above. Sometimes stats don't tell the story. But in this case, its very very clear.
Lamela though had a reasonably good season (compared to his own standards previous years) is failing to hit the heights.

When Lamela is back & fit in October, he will not walk into XI. If Poch goes & out buys likes of Barkley or Lemar, he will be behind those two as well.

Son was injured at the start of the season yet he was still behind Lamela anyway, why don't you quote the stats which tells you what games Lamela started ahead of Son before he got injured and Son hit form, what will tell you who was a guaranteed starter and who wasn't.

No idea why have you typed out all this filler, you're skirting round the argument, Son being ahead of Lamela at the moment is not what's being debated here because that answer is obvious, what I'm debating is your insistence that Lamela wasn't a guaranteed starter in our team because he was and you know he was.

 

[arunspurs]

Son was injured at the start of the season yet he was still behind Lamela anyway, why don't you quote the stats which tells you what games Lamela started ahead of Son before he got injured and Son hit form, what will tell you who was a guaranteed starter and who wasn't.

No idea why have you typed out all this filler, you're skirting round the argument, Son being ahead of Lamela at the moment is not what's being debated here because that answer is obvious, what I'm debating is your insistence that Lamela wasn't a guaranteed starter in our team because he was and you know he was.

hahaha...ok..here you go

Son wasnt available for first game.
Son started the next 3, Lamela started 2.
Son got injured. Unfortunately that was a foot injury which could be cured only by proper rest & it came back over the season. Even Poch said he was never really fit.
Then towards the end of the season, his recovery was complete. He started to start games.
Guess what, he scored 2 in 3.

 

[arunspurs]

I know Lamela is a fan favourite & he did give me some great moments. I don't hate him. I just don't think he is good enough to be a top PL player.
I will just say this....I find it shocking that even after 4 years some people think he is still a potential. People asking more time for him to grow. Go around PL & see the teams. Players do come from other leagues & they do hit the ground running. There may be few like Suarez, who dont have great first season but eventually play stunning football.

When he wears the shirt next time , I will support him like the last time he wore Spurs shirt. But from what I have seen & what his career stats at Spurs been, I don't think he will be that great player in coming years. He will be a good squad player but I don't expect him to be anything more than that. And unfortunately, this hip injury complicates things even further.

 

[Shadydan]

hahaha...ok..here you go

View attachment 30789

Son wasnt available for first game.
Son started the next 3, Lamela started 2.
Son got injured. Unfortunately that was a leg injury which could be cured only by proper rest & it came back over the season. Even Poch said he was never really fit.
Then towards the end of the season, his recovery was complete. He started to start games.
Guess what, he scored 2 in 3.

View attachment 30790

Are you actually following the debate? You posted stats on his sub appearances from last season, you do realise that you're just solidifying my point, all of those last few matches of 2015/16 he came on as a sub and Lamela was ahead of him

You're doing it again, desperately trying to turn this into a Son vs Lamela debate, I don't care about the goals he scored when he came back and neither should you it's not relevant to the argument at hand.

If you want to use your small sample period of 3 matches from last season to say that Lamela wasn't a guaranteed starter then go ahead but if your argument hinges on Son being the guaranteed starter over the same period then your argument is weak.

 

[arunspurs]

Are you actually following the debate? You posted stats on his sub appearances from last season, you do realise that you're just solidifying my point, all of those last few matches of 2015/16 he came on as a sub and Lamela was ahead of him

You're doing it again, desperately trying to turn this into a Son vs Lamela debate, I don't care about the goals he scored when he came back and neither should you it's not relevant to the argument at hand.

If you want to use your small sample period of 3 matches from last season to say that Lamela wasn't a guaranteed starter then go ahead but if your argument hinges on Son being the guaranteed starter over the same period then your argument is weak.

You asked what was Son stat before injury, I showed it.

What part of 'Son did not recover from his foot injury' you did not understand ?' Son was playing games with pain - which ofcourse meant Lamela always had the better of him. Lamela did have a decent season. But Son's injury helped a long way in reducing competition

Son in his own words how injury affected him...And Poch confirmed it.

“This season I think [I’ve been] a little bit unlucky. I started well, got injured and then getting fit took a long time. I’m still getting [back to] 100 per cent. But I’m very happy because I enjoyed this year in Tottenham.”

 

[smallsnc]

Son raised his game to a standard over the 2nd half of 2016/2017 that neither he nor Lamela had done up to that point. It does not matter who was the starter early in the season or the previous season. As of now, Lamela will have to raise his game above where it was previously to get back in the starting lineup IMO and I think it will take until at least January for him to realistically reach his best form given the amount of time he has been out. IMO, it is not being realistic if anyone is thinking Lamela will start on a regular basis before then if at all.

 

[Shadydan]

You asked what was Son stat before injury, I showed it.

What part of 'Son did not recover from his foot injury' you did not understand ?' Son was playing games with pain - which ofcourse meant Lamela always had the better of him. Lamela did have a decent season. But Son's injury helped a long way in reducing competition

Son in his own words how injury affected him...And Poch confirmed it.

“This season I think [I’ve been] a little bit unlucky. I started well, got injured and then getting fit took a long time. I’m still getting [back to] 100 per cent. But I’m very happy because I enjoyed this year in Tottenham.”

When I asked for the stats it's pretty obvious that you had to look at the stats from last season, it is your argument after all although you've still posted stats from last season which contradicts your own argument which is quite funny.

Son being not 100% fit doesn't equate to him being a guaranteed starter, it's just utter nonsense. it's based on your utter fantasy that Son has always been ahead of Lamela and nothing else, you can not prove that a player wasn't a guaranteed starter on the basis that another player was injured, it's a total non starter of a theory, by the way the quotes aren't needed either, why are you still posting filler for? It's not needed.

Well done wasn't long until you reached for the patronising angle...maybe learn to take opposing opinions on board if you're going to engage in a debate.

 

[arunspurs]

When I asked for the stats it's pretty obvious that you had to look at the stats from last season, it is your argument after all although you've still posted stats from last season which contradicts your own argument which is quite funny.

Son being not 100% fit doesn't equate to him being a guaranteed starter, it's just utter nonsense. it's based on your utter fantasy that Son has always been ahead of Lamela and nothing else, you can not prove that a player wasn't a guaranteed starter on the basis that another player was injured, it's a total non starter of a theory, by the way the quotes aren't needed either, why are you still posting filler for? It's not needed.

Well done wasn't long until you reached for the patronising angle...maybe learn to take opposing opinions on board if you're going to engage in a debate.

You keep asking stats.When I give them, you dont digest it with context. Context here is back drop of Son's injury which affected his whole season.
Yes , I can't prove a player wasnt a guarenteed starter coz of his ongoing injury.

What I did prove was same player playing in same position as Lamela , without injury actually played almost twice as better than him.

I did not dislike your opinion nor spam it nor disagree. Why ? Because, I understand everyone has a view here & respect it. And especially with Lamela, it can get hot in here. I agree to disagree but sorry mate, if you thought I can't take others opinion, you could not be more wrong.

 

[Shadydan]

You keep asking stats.When I give them, you dont digest it with context. Context here is back drop of Son's injury which affected his whole season.
Yes , I can't prove a player wasnt a guarenteed starter coz of his ongoing injury.

What I did prove was same player playing in same position as Lamela , without injury actually played almost twice as better than him.

I did not dislike your opinion nor spam it nor disagree. Why ? Because, I understand everyone has a view here & respect it. And especially with Lamela, it can get hot in here. I agree to disagree but sorry mate, if you thought I can't take others opinion, you could not be more wrong.

Because your stats aren't making sense in the context of the argument but yeah this is boring me now let's just leave it

 

[arunspurs]

Because your stats aren't making sense in the context of the argument but yeah this is boring me now let's just leave it

Becuase you only looked at 2nd photo missing the 1st photo in post #107. Not my problem...
Lets leave it here...

 

[thebenjamin]

The worry re Lamela is that it's a really awkward injury.id almost be more confident if he'd broken his leg.Hip is very much like a back injury when it comes to injuries.If he has a weakness there it could well flare up again.But far too early to say he is finished .

Yeah, he's had an operation on both hips as well. Will be a very long and hard road back. Even when he's fit to train with the lads again I imagine it'll be a few months on top of that until he's ready to compete.

 

[aliyid]

I know they're never reliable but SSN are saying he could be out till winter... Has there been an update that I've missed on here???

 

[Neon_Knight_]

Lamela was playing ahead of Son because Son like Lamela got injured at a critical time. He had a bright start with a match winner against Palace, but got injured. Son had to bide his time. But when he got his second chance he took it. How many chances Lamela has had ? You would have thought he would kick on in 2016/17. He was a disappointment. After goal against Everton in 1st game, deteriorated & and by 4th PL game lost his starting place.

I have quoted the stats above. Sometimes stats don't tell the story. But in this case, its very very clear.
Lamela though had a reasonably good season (compared to his own standards previous years) is failing to hit the heights.

When Lamela is back & fit in October, he will not walk into XI. If Poch goes & out buys likes of Barkley or Lemar, he will be behind those two as well.

Do the stats tell us how Lamela is significantly better at pressing the opposition? (arguably our best attacking player in this respect)

 

[fortworthspur]

I for one am glad Lamela will be coming back and view it almost like a new transfer of a proven contributor. We will only be better with a healthy Lamela as an option.

 

[WalkerboyUK]

I know they're never reliable but SSN are saying he could be out till winter... Has there been an update that I've missed on here???

I just read that he has now been ruled out for a further 12 weeks, taking it to October at the earliest...