Lamela tries to kick-start his Spurs career with summer fitness programme in Argentina

slartibartfast

Grunge baby forever
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Oct 21, 2012
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#41
Sorry but Lamela has no pace..no close control in tight area's or faceed with beating players one on one. No presence on the pitch and to be honest is a very average player. Bulking up a kid that didn"t even want to come to the prem in the first place will not suddenly make him R7.. If someone can tell me what they have seen to warrant us paying 27 mil for him is beyond me. Gio Do Santos has done more in a Spurs shirt. And he was terrible
Have to agree with most of your post.
Fact is he has not got pace.
He has not shown much in the way of ball control and repeatedly kept knocking it too far in front of him.
He is/was far too weak for PL football.
He was not worth anywhere near what we paid for him.
However I cant believe we paid that much for someone who hasnt got something special in his locker (Bloody hope not anyway),
If he strengthens we may get to see it but I dont think anyone can put hand on heart and say we've seen anything at all yet in a Spurs shirt.
Heres to hoping it works out.
 

@Bobby__Lucky

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#42
That's not entirely correct. I read that Messi was given an exemption from rules that normally would have applied to footballers, as well as other sportspeople, because his club and trainers were able to demonstrate that the HGH was to correct a genuine metabolic defect, i.e., a medical problem, as opposed to enhancing the stature and strength of someone with a normal body chemistry.

I mean, FFS, he was on human growth hormone for years and he achieved the towering height of 5'-4". Which rather suggests there was something amiss.

Thre's a fine difference between correcting a disadvantage and obtaining an advantage.
You proved me correct by saying he was given an exemption.

It is widely noted that the drugs give him abnormal acceleration and strength, so to use your terminology FFS, why is he allowed to compete?
It does not correct an abnormality it gives him an abnormal platform from which to perform. Dwarfs aren't abnormal they are just born within the spectrum of different traits, so no I don't agree with your statement, but that's fine, we can remain different on this subject.
 

Locotoro

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#43
I'm afraid that isn't how athletes train for strength at all. Ask any qualified strength coach, including myself, how to prep athletes and bands, resistance machines and prioritising upper body never really come into it. You also never really train for endurance, that's 80's sport science thinking really.
Finally, someone who knows something about strength and conditioning.

If anyone think Ronaldo got the way he is now by using bands and machines they are mistaken. I can guarantee that his training regime involves lots of heavy compound and Olympic style lifts, probably some flexibility and agility work and lots of football
 

Gaz_Gammon

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#44
Sorry but Lamela has no pace..no close control in tight area's or faceed with beating players one on one. No presence on the pitch and to be honest is a very average player. Bulking up a kid that didn"t even want to come to the prem in the first place will not suddenly make him R7.. If someone can tell me what they have seen to warrant us paying 27 mil for him is beyond me. Gio Do Santos has done more in a Spurs shirt. And he was terrible

I strongly disagree with you summing up........

When fit and playing in Poch's system he will deliver.


 

davidmatzdorf

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#45
If anyone think Ronaldo got the way he is now by using bands and machines they are mistaken. I can guarantee that his training regime involves lots of heavy compound and Olympic style lifts, probably some flexibility and agility work and lots of football
Indeed. But if anyone thinks Lamela is going to turn into a better footballer by following Ronaldo's example, I think they they are mistaken. For one thing, he hasn't got the pace for it.

One of the beauties of football is that, unlike (say) basketball, players with widely, indeed wildly different body types can excel in different roles. If Lamela is going to achieve his potential, he's going to have to retain suppleness and balance, as well as developing core strength - as opposed to bulky, powerful limbs and enormous pecs. I know (from experience) that a regimen such as Pilates is ideal for building torso strength and especially balance, as well as improving flexibility and increasing resistance to muscle injuries. What it doesn't do is to get you ripped, like Ronaldo.

After 18 years of weekly Pilates, I can lift heavy objects with more ease than I could when I was 20 years younger, but that's not because I have lifted heavy objects thousands of times using my arm and leg muscles. It's because I have strengthened the scores of muscles in my back, abdomen and the rest of my torso, which keep me balanced and enable me to lift without hunching, humping, yanking and straining.

Back to Lamela. He needs to develop upper body strength, but he doesn't want to become a bull. He needs that strength to resist physical harassment on the pitch, so he can keep doing what he wanted to do. To do that, he wants to be strong like a bamboo cane, not like a tree trunk.

At the moment, he is neither and the result is that he cannot execute what he wants to do and is an ineffective footballer.
 

davidmatzdorf

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#46
You proved me correct by saying he was given an exemption.

It is widely noted that the drugs give him abnormal acceleration and strength, so to use your terminology FFS, why is he allowed to compete?
It does not correct an abnormality it gives him an abnormal platform from which to perform. Dwarfs aren't abnormal they are just born within the spectrum of different traits, so no I don't agree with your statement, but that's fine, we can remain different on this subject.
I'm not seeing much of a major disagreement here. My main point of difference was with your suggestion that Messi 'gets away' with this in football in a way that would not be tolerated in other sports.

And his supposedly exceptional speed is largely speed of thought, which I don't think is much affected by HGH. He's way ahead of the game in his head. Had he not already been exceptionally gifted before the HGH period, then no major football club would have invested in such unusual attention and treatment for a tiny young man with metabolic problems.

I don't want to get into a debate on the definitions of 'abnormal' or 'disablity', but Messi had a deficiency of HGH, not just a 'spectrum of different traits'. I don't see how his treatment differs from treatment for hypothyroidism, another hormonal deficiency. They both have symptoms that many people find undesirable and they are both treatable.
 
Joined
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#47
I refer you to the 4,000 positive ratings and the 100 negative ratings.

Unless we have a different definition of the word 'people'.

And that should be 'you're the reason...'.

And I'm not your 'mate'.

And you weren't 'sorry'.
I gave this a thumbs up. Partly because I'm so obviously a dm sycophant and partly because he's right about "you're".
Oh, and because I enjoy reading thoughtful prose.
 

GeneralBurk

Active Member
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#48
Such a typical British thing to say. Fuck talent, skill, poise or awareness, just get bigger & faster and knock 'em off the ball then run away from them.

Yet look at Spain, Barca, German youth team and you'll see its skill & discipline that are most important.

This point of view of physicality can beat skill is why England are so crap & why so many youth in this country are overlooked cos they not built like brick shithouses, and until this changes I believe England will continue to be also rans in every major tourney.
Skill and physicality are not mutually exclusive though.

Bale and Ronaldo have both benefitted from becoming more athletic and physically stronger.

I do agree with your overall view of having footballers over athletes.

It's a bit like Usain Bolt being the theoretical sprinter who can take the least amount of steps to complete the 100m given his huge athletic frame. This only works if he can combine it with his technique.
 

vigospur

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#50
After 18 years of weekly Pilates, I can lift heavy objects with more ease than I could when I was 20 years younger, but that's not because I have lifted heavy objects thousands of times using my arm and leg muscles. It's because I have strengthened the scores of muscles in my back, abdomen and the rest of my torso, which keep me balanced and enable me to lift without hunching, humping, yanking and straining.
Now I know where I went wrong.
 

Greenspur

Very old member
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#53
They aren't comparable body-types and they don't play the same style of football, so it's an invidious and misleading comparison.

Modric is wiry and very strong and, like Messi, has a low centre of gravity. He doesn't need 'bulk' to be tough. He also rarely embarks on a lengthy dribble - he typically takes a few steps into space as he receives the ball to evade bigger, more powerful tacklers, before releasing the ball - elusive, as others have written, but also very strong for his size.

Messi is actually quite 'bulky' for his size - he has a short, chunky build, unlike Modric, with powerful legs. And I recall reading that he was indeed indeed put on a special diet and given HGH (with permission), as a young player, because his coaches were concerned about a genetic height-restriction issue (the details were left vague).

Lamela is tall and willowy and, unlike Modric and like Messi, his game does involve trying to dribble past multiple opponents. At present, he can't do it, at least not in the Premiership. I watched the same thing happen more than once in every single one of his appearances last season. He'd receive the ball, beat one or two men and then the third one would bully him right off the ball, thus wasting the good work he did in beating the first man or two.

I don't think he needs to 'bulk up', in the sense of lifting heavy weights to build bulky muscle mass. The last thing he needs is to emulate Christian Benteke. What he does need, desperately, is more upper body strength - he's visibly slight and slender above the waist and the result shows on the pitch, as I just described. Pilates will address that, as will high-reps gym work with medium weights or working against springs. When a bigger player barges him, he has to be able to stand his ground, barge back and keep going with the ball under control. He's visibly unable to do that with his current level and type of fitness.
Wow. I wrote six or seven words. You wrote a complete chapter of some kind. I know very little about body types. Clearly, you do.

But to say that it is an "invidious and misleading comparison" means that either you don't understand the meaning of the word "invidious", you don't understand what I was trying to say, or you yourself are invidious.

Do you get some kind of pleasure from being unpleasant?
 

michaelden

Knight of the Fat Fanny
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Aug 13, 2004
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#54
That's not entirely correct. I read that Messi was given an exemption from rules that normally would have applied to footballers, as well as other sportspeople, because his club and trainers were able to demonstrate that the HGH was to correct a genuine metabolic defect, i.e., a medical problem, as opposed to enhancing the stature and strength of someone with a normal body chemistry.

I mean, FFS, he was on human growth hormone for years and he achieved the towering height of 5'-4". Which rather suggests there was something amiss.

Thre's a fine difference between correcting a disadvantage and obtaining an advantage.
I agree. I read a few very good articles on it ages ago, but I do wonder, in an age where 2 win results can mean the difference between £15M and £40M, would a team be as ethical and not slightly over-medicate to help boost injury recovery etc...
 

whitechina

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Dec 27, 2012
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1,473
#57
I don't think him being away from the UK is a good thing. last season we kept hearing he wasn't settling in the UK and now he's "gone home" to build up his fitness. Why not do this in the UK with the club who pay his wages, where he should try to settle. This cries in the face of a spoilt little sh1t to me. I want him to do well. Get to London, work hard, play well, settle and become a professional!
 

Shadydan

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Jul 7, 2012
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20,590
#58
I don't think him being away from the UK is a good thing. last season we kept hearing he wasn't settling in the UK and now he's "gone home" to build up his fitness. Why not do this in the UK with the club who pay his wages, where he should try to settle. This cries in the face of a spoilt little sh1t to me. I want him to do well. Get to London, work hard, play well, settle and become a professional!
Or maybe his rehab is better served in his own country?

Certainly not the 1st player to go gone for rehab, definitely won't be the last.
 

JoeT

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Jun 7, 2005
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3,813
#60
I'm afraid that isn't how athletes train for strength at all. Ask any qualified strength coach, including myself, how to prep athletes and bands, resistance machines and prioritising upper body never really come into it. You also never really train for endurance, that's 80's sport science thinking really.
Thanks for your comment peter, however you didn't say how you would improve my ideas, which, due to my concern about posting too much detail on here, I never did expand on.
My background is/was in cross-country ski racing where both specific strength and endurance are paramount. The endurance phase of training would take place in the summer with 30-40 kilometer roller-ski and skating sessions (on in-line roller blades c/w. poles) would be done 2-3 times weekly outdoors. These would be combined with indoor sessions using elastic tubing in a specific way: either attached to the ankle as a resistance to the 'kicking' ski motion or to the hands as resistance to a 'double-poling' motion.
Also outdoor sessions of 'plyometric' workouts would be done on foot; either 'bounding' up hills or - more advanced, one legged hopping sessions - probably up a steep hill x 10-20 times. Weight machines would also be used 1 -2 times a week concentrating on resistance to total body movements similar to those when cross-country skiing i.e. back and triceps development. The total monthly hours spent training in this way - for the top skiers - often exceeds 100 hours.
If Erik Lamela completed such a period of training - with the specifics adjusted to football obviously and maybe with a little less hours spent - would he not greatly benefit?
Your response would be appreciated.
 
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