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Let's All Laugh At... Lets all laugh at Man City

Everlasting Seconds

Well-Known Member
Jan 9, 2014
14,914
26,616
Apparently Pep has taken 906 points out of a possible 1,104 in the ten years he’s been a manager.

Even allowing for the teams he’s managed and the resources at his disposal, that is a ridiculous record.

No doubt he’s the best manager in the world right now.
We all exist in a parallel universe which allows him to reboot his copy of football manager, only it's really happening.
 

mpickard2087

Patient Zero
Jun 13, 2008
21,886
32,513
I'm reserving judgement until he's able to do something really special like win the CL with Kieran Trippier at right back ;)

Joking aside, I think he's probably the best manager in the world at managing an elite group of players. He's able to take a team of superstars and manage the egos and get them all to work their socks off and play to the best of their abilities, which is something even the best managers often struggle with. For me though, and I know this is an old cliche, he won't go down in history until he's shown another string to his bow i.e. the ability to turn an average team into an elite group of players. All the managers who are the sort of "legendary" icons of the game throughout history at some point in their careers turned a poor team into a good one. So far Pep hasn't ever done that.

I'd disagree with the first part of that. The good man managers who can just keep the superstars ticking over would be the likes of Zidane and Ancelotti.

I think Guardiola's main advantage is his understanding and intelligence of the game and it's mechanics, and he has total comprehension of his tactics/how he wants to play in all facets of the game and in all areas of the pitch. He basically views it as a game of chess and analyses things obsessively. Sometimes that backfires and he looks like he's overcomplicated it, but game after game they manage to overload and exploit different opposition in different areas. The interplay and reading of his plaeyrs to be in the right position and to 'know' what they have to do, with and without the ball, is also so well drilled into them and is how they can make the game look easy and be so dominant.

Of course working with the top teams and best players helps immensely. Maybe that will go against him in history, but I think there is enough within his career that show his talent and that he will go down as a legendary Coach - He got the Barca job because of the work he'd done with the B team, which had been so neglected, and he restructured the whole pathway and got a group of journeymen and kids playing better than the first team and a promotion. His Barca team had a fair few random youth players involved and contributing (eg. Jeffren, Cuenca, Tello), he plucked the likes of Pedro and Busquets from nowhere and made them. He's improved no end of players like Sterling or repositioned others like Delph/Zinchenko, and then tactically lots of what he does gets emulated. The whole tiki taka stuff at Barca, now with the fullbacks playing inside, and even composition of midfields - no one else would have come in and played Silva and De Bruyne in the same cm in the Premier League, and I do think on the back of this (and his Barca/Bayern midfields) teams have started to be a little more adventurous in who they place in the centre of the park when in the early years of this century it had very much become defensive and safety first and industry/robustness was what was valued.

Is winning the lot with teams like City a bit of a hollow achievement? Yes. But within his body of work he's done a hell of a lot more in pushing ideas and developing the game than the vast vast majority of managers in this recent era, to be fair to him.
 

King of Otters

Well-Known Member
Jun 11, 2012
10,751
36,093
I'd disagree with the first part of that. The good man managers who can just keep the superstars ticking over would be the likes of Zidane and Ancelotti.

I think Guardiola's main advantage is his understanding and intelligence of the game and it's mechanics, and he has total comprehension of his tactics/how he wants to play in all facets of the game and in all areas of the pitch. He basically views it as a game of chess and analyses things obsessively. Sometimes that backfires and he looks like he's overcomplicated it, but game after game they manage to overload and exploit different opposition in different areas. The interplay and reading of his plaeyrs to be in the right position and to 'know' what they have to do, with and without the ball, is also so well drilled into them and is how they can make the game look easy and be so dominant.

Of course working with the top teams and best players helps immensely. Maybe that will go against him in history, but I think there is enough within his career that show his talent and that he will go down as a legendary Coach - He got the Barca job because of the work he'd done with the B team, which had been so neglected, and he restructured the whole pathway and got a group of journeymen and kids playing better than the first team and a promotion. His Barca team had a fair few random youth players involved and contributing (eg. Jeffren, Cuenca, Tello), he plucked the likes of Pedro and Busquets from nowhere and made them. He's improved no end of players like Sterling or repositioned others like Delph/Zinchenko, and then tactically lots of what he does gets emulated. The whole tiki taka stuff at Barca, now with the fullbacks playing inside, and even composition of midfields - no one else would have come in and played Silva and De Bruyne in the same cm in the Premier League, and I do think on the back of this (and his Barca/Bayern midfields) teams have started to be a little more adventurous in who they place in the centre of the park when in the early years of this century it had very much become defensive and safety first and industry/robustness was what was valued.

Is winning the lot with teams like City a bit of a hollow achievement? Yes. But within his body of work he's done a hell of a lot more in pushing ideas and developing the game than the vast vast majority of managers in this recent era, to be fair to him.

Great post. To return to the point about history, and whether Pep has earned his place, any book about football tactics in the 21st century, and there will be plenty written, will devote at least one chapter to Pep and the style he pioneered from Barca through to City. It’s no exaggeration to say he’s revolutionised the game in that period.
 

wrd

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
13,603
58,005
I'd disagree with the first part of that. The good man managers who can just keep the superstars ticking over would be the likes of Zidane and Ancelotti.

I think Guardiola's main advantage is his understanding and intelligence of the game and it's mechanics, and he has total comprehension of his tactics/how he wants to play in all facets of the game and in all areas of the pitch. He basically views it as a game of chess and analyses things obsessively. Sometimes that backfires and he looks like he's overcomplicated it, but game after game they manage to overload and exploit different opposition in different areas. The interplay and reading of his plaeyrs to be in the right position and to 'know' what they have to do, with and without the ball, is also so well drilled into them and is how they can make the game look easy and be so dominant.

Of course working with the top teams and best players helps immensely. Maybe that will go against him in history, but I think there is enough within his career that show his talent and that he will go down as a legendary Coach - He got the Barca job because of the work he'd done with the B team, which had been so neglected, and he restructured the whole pathway and got a group of journeymen and kids playing better than the first team and a promotion. His Barca team had a fair few random youth players involved and contributing (eg. Jeffren, Cuenca, Tello), he plucked the likes of Pedro and Busquets from nowhere and made them. He's improved no end of players like Sterling or repositioned others like Delph/Zinchenko, and then tactically lots of what he does gets emulated. The whole tiki taka stuff at Barca, now with the fullbacks playing inside, and even composition of midfields - no one else would have come in and played Silva and De Bruyne in the same cm in the Premier League, and I do think on the back of this (and his Barca/Bayern midfields) teams have started to be a little more adventurous in who they place in the centre of the park when in the early years of this century it had very much become defensive and safety first and industry/robustness was what was valued.

Is winning the lot with teams like City a bit of a hollow achievement? Yes. But within his body of work he's done a hell of a lot more in pushing ideas and developing the game than the vast vast majority of managers in this recent era, to be fair to him.

I agree with this, is he probably the best manager in the world at the moment because of how he has revolutionised football on a tactical level? yes, is a large reason he has had the ability to revolutionise football largely down to the fact he has had ridiculous resources to be able to do so? In my opinion, also yes.
 

mpickard2087

Patient Zero
Jun 13, 2008
21,886
32,513
I agree with this, is he probably the best manager in the world at the moment because of how he has revolutionised football on a tactical level? yes, is a large reason he has had the ability to revolutionise football largely down to the fact he has had ridiculous resources to be able to do so? In my opinion, also yes.

I wouldn't disagree with that and of course it makes a massive difference to have such resources/players to work with. I do think some people though underplay being able to take established world class players to another level of performance (not just with the ball, without it too eg. the pressing game) and specifically consistency, that's a bit of a task in itself even with the ultra talented players. That doesn't happen unless you seriously know your stuff and garner a level of respect that will see them give everything as you try to push the limits.
 

wrd

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
13,603
58,005
I wouldn't disagree with that. I do think some people though underplay being able to take established world class players to another level of performance (not just with the ball, without it too eg. the pressing game) and specifically consistency, that's a bit of a task in itself even with the ultra talented players. That doesn't happen unless you seriously know your stuff and garner a level of respect that will see them give everything as you try to push the limits.

Yeah absolutely, Pep for me is one of the resources which city have garnered because they have such financial strength. It's foolish to say that he has only achieved what he has because of the clubs he's managed because you only need to look at the performances of Bayern and Barca this season to see they're a million miles away from the levels they were when he was at the helm. I think he's been able to get to somewhere tactically because of the resources and opportunities he has had and the freedom that allows. For me it's like Disney putting money into these Marvel films, of course they're going to be able to hit previously unseen movie ensembles and tell a story over 20 or so films like no studio before when they have the resource they do but it doesn't mean that those artists aren't some of the best in the world.

I won't lie though I don't appreciate what City are doing with English football, it concerns me the money they're putting in and the resources they have, if teams can't compete over the next 10 years and they win treble/quadruples every season then I'm concerned on a competitive level what it does for the league. At the moment it feels inevitable and that's not a good thing in my opinion. They have a fan screaming at the media in the press box for not saying what an incredible feat it is, it's because it doesn't feel like one, it feels expected.
 

Tucker

Shitehawk
Jul 15, 2013
31,134
146,035
I won't lie though I don't appreciate what City are doing with English football, it concerns me the money they're putting in and the resources they have, if teams can't compete over the next 10 years and they win treble/quadruples every season then I'm concerned on a competitive level what it does for the league. At the moment it feels inevitable and that's not a good thing in my opinion. They have a fan screaming at the media in the press box for not saying what an incredible feat it is, it's because it doesn't feel like one, it feels expected.

This. It’s very worrying for the game. I fully expect City to dominate for the next decade at least. This year has been exceptional in that two teams ran each other close. But I can’t see Liverpool being able to keep up this pace. Maybe someone else will run them close next year, maybe it will be us. But in the end City are far better resourced than any other team in world football. When they can keep the likes of De Bruyne and Aguero on the bench for big games you know that football is broken.
 

SteveH

BSoDL candidate for SW London
Jul 21, 2003
8,642
9,313
City are only doing what Liverpool did in the 70's&80's and United '90s and don't let us forget Chelsea.
Yes, It is going to be difficult to wrestle the title away from them but people were saying that once about Arsenal.
These things go in cycles.

Pep says he will not be managing forever and he will want to have a bash at Barca again before he goes and plays his golf.
 

Tucker

Shitehawk
Jul 15, 2013
31,134
146,035
City are only doing what Liverpool did in the 70's&80's and United '90s and don't let us forget Chelsea.
Yes, It is going to be difficult to wrestle the title away from them but people were saying that once about Arsenal.
These things go in cycles.

Pep says he will not be managing forever and he will want to have a bash at Barca again before he goes and plays his golf.

Liverpool and United didn’t have the financial clout of a sovereign nation behind them. Not even Chelsea had that.

And no, Pep won’t be there forever, but he’s not the god many people make him out to be. I bet Neil Warnock, or Sam Allardyce could win the league with City’s squad.
 

$hoguN

Well-Known Member
Jul 25, 2005
26,626
34,700
Strange decision to let a leader like him leave when money is not an issue for them. He may not play regularly but he is a difference maker to them in big matches
 

Marty

Audere est farce
Mar 10, 2005
39,885
62,564
Kompany leaving them.
He was a proper bargain - £6 million
Bought before all the dodgy money came in as well.
One player you absolutely can call a legend of his club and of the game. Signed for relative pittance by Mark Hughes and became one of the best defenders in the world.

Him leaving makes it easier to dislike City a bit more.
 

CoopsieDeadpool

Well-Known Member
Jun 8, 2012
18,257
70,419
Strange decision to let a leader like him leave when money is not an issue for them. He may not play regularly but he is a difference maker to them in big matches


He's just fantastic in every respect. A leader, a winner, humble & one heck of a fucking good player.

Someone somewhere is going to be very lucky to have him im their squad/team.
 

SteveH

BSoDL candidate for SW London
Jul 21, 2003
8,642
9,313
Liverpool and United didn’t have the financial clout of a sovereign nation behind them. Not even Chelsea had that.

And no, Pep won’t be there forever, but he’s not the god many people make him out to be. I bet Neil Warnock, or Sam Allardyce could win the league with City’s squad.

Pep has proved that he can take the money and win titles with it, but for all their money not in Europe. Look at Real, Dortmund and Atletico huge clubs but not everybody can be top dog.
Warnock and Allardyce are good managers but they would not get a chance to manage an elite team because the 'elite' player would not buy into it. The City squad has no Pogba's no egos on legs like Neymar and for this, I like what Pep has done. Made great player out of good players like De Bruyne, Bernardo Silva (my favourite) and even, yes Sterling.

The Club though sadly is just a shell for the marketing of an unpalatable product/country. Man U though are now just the same marketing wise.
I feel sorry for the true old school City fans.
 

Marty

Audere est farce
Mar 10, 2005
39,885
62,564
He's just fantastic in every respect. A leader, a winner, humble & one heck of a fucking good player.

Someone somewhere is going to be very lucky to have him im their squad/team.
Injuries permitting, he could play a couple more seasons for any team outside the current top four. Arse should be all over him, he'll obviously never go to United.

But more likely he'll find a cushy gig to semi-retire in instead. And good on him if so.
 

Tucker

Shitehawk
Jul 15, 2013
31,134
146,035
Strange decision to let a leader like him leave when money is not an issue for them. He may not play regularly but he is a difference maker to them in big matches

I’d imagine he wants to go out on a high. He can’t play many games, and he’s only going to deteriorate.
 

aliyid

Well-Known Member
Dec 28, 2004
6,944
19,929
Just seen the goals on MOTD what an incredible hat-trick from Sterling combined distance of less than 6yards :wideyed:

1st 1mm
2nd 5 yards
3rd 0.5 yards
 

Marty

Audere est farce
Mar 10, 2005
39,885
62,564
Just seen the goals on MOTD what an incredible hat-trick from Sterling combined distance of less than 6yards :wideyed:

1st 1mm
2nd 5 yards
3rd 0.5 yards
City have mastered the tactics of work it wide/low cross/tap-in to perfection. Done quickly enough it's almost unstoppable.
 
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