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bomberH

Well-Known Member
Jun 4, 2005
28,454
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Absolute class from Durham, my respect for him just went up a huge notch.



Just listened to it - starts off well but aside from the first minute or two, I didn’t agree with much of the rest of it. He spent a lot of time saying you can’t call a black player lazy because of the connotations it may have. I genuinely don’t get that. Hoddle was called lazy. In fact some nicknamed him Glenda (can you imagine the fuss that would cause nowadays). People called Ginola lazy as he wouldn’t track back. He used one example in Aguero but there are plenty throughout the years and presently who are ‘lazy’ non-black players that have been called out. I wouldn’t say Lukaku is lazy anyway but I’m not sure how this can be perceived as racist. I’ve never come across that perception concerning a professional black man. I obviously get the ‘famous’ stereotypes like the criminal thing, not having a dad around or eating fried chicken etc... all wrong/lazy stereotypes.... and even positive stereotypes like having a large cock but I haven’t heard the lazy thing. Especially concerning a professional athlete. Calling a black man lazy because he’s black is 100% racist and ignorant but calling Lukaku lazy because it may be perceived that he’s not making the necessary runs needed, or he’s not tracking back or he’s too unfit due to all the muscle/fat he’s gained isn’t racist.

I wouldn’t really want Sterling to be England captain either. He’s far from captain material. Surely what he’s saying is positive discrimination. Wanting someone to be captain just because of his colour. I understand the part about coming through adversity and the admirable way he’s dealt with all the media shit, but that doesn’t mean he’s a captain on the football pitch. There have been many excellent black captains - King, Ince, Vieira etc but I haven’t seen anything on the pitch that makes him captain material yet. Maybe in a few years?

Also, you could argue that Durham has come across as a bit sexist by saying ‘think about your mum, think about your grandma’.... what about your dad? Or is he assuming your dad is the problem? That your dad is the one shouting vile shit towards players? If he’s (rightly) insistent on tackling racism then he should be all over sexism too. I know some may think this point is clutching at straws but this kind of stuff is currently all over social media. Whether we agree or not, what he’s said is inadvertently sexist.

And lastly, the ending is ironic. He talks about why is there so much hatred in football and doesn’t realise that presenters like him who ridicule football teams and football fans are stirring up the hatred every single day of the week, just so their bosses can make money. It doesn’t matter if it’s classed as ‘banter’, we all know lots of fans can’t take it. Obviously Durham and the likes of Cundy aren’t the sole cause of anger in football but fuck me they add to it and he can’t see the irony in his statement. How many times does our blood boil listening to his shit when he’s on a wind up? He slates players regularly, yesterday it was Noble (is he a West Ham legend or does he sum up everything about the club and is just a mediocre player for a mediocre team etc - yeah that’s funny for us but you see the point I’m making). As we all know, Carragher got so wound up he called in when Durham called him a coward/bottler for retiring from England. Wind up merchant causing anger.

So yeah, he starts off summarising it well and I agree 100% with what he says about racism in parts of the media but the rest of it? Nah. I didn’t think that was anywhere near as powerful as Sterling’s own statement about it.
 

'O Zio

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2014
7,405
13,785
Just listened to it - starts off well but aside from the first minute or two, I didn’t agree with much of the rest of it. He spent a lot of time saying you can’t call a black player lazy because of the connotations it may have. I genuinely don’t get that. Hoddle was called lazy. In fact some nicknamed him Glenda (can you imagine the fuss that would cause nowadays). People called Ginola lazy as he wouldn’t track back. He used one example in Aguero but there are plenty throughout the years and presently who are ‘lazy’ non-black players that have been called out. I wouldn’t say Lukaku is lazy anyway but I’m not sure how this can be perceived as racist. I’ve never come across that perception concerning a professional black man. I obviously get the ‘famous’ stereotypes like the criminal thing, not having a dad around or eating fried chicken etc... all wrong/lazy stereotypes.... and even positive stereotypes like having a large cock but I haven’t heard the lazy thing. Especially concerning a professional athlete. Calling a black man lazy because he’s black is 100% racist and ignorant but calling Lukaku lazy because it may be perceived that he’s not making the necessary runs needed, or he’s not tracking back or he’s too unfit due to all the muscle/fat he’s gained isn’t racist.

I wouldn’t really want Sterling to be England captain either. He’s far from captain material. Surely what he’s saying is positive discrimination. Wanting someone to be captain just because of his colour. I understand the part about coming through adversity and the admirable way he’s dealt with all the media shit, but that doesn’t mean he’s a captain on the football pitch. There have been many excellent black captains - King, Ince, Vieira etc but I haven’t seen anything on the pitch that makes him captain material yet. Maybe in a few years?

Also, you could argue that Durham has come across as a bit sexist by saying ‘think about your mum, think about your grandma’.... what about your dad? Or is he assuming your dad is the problem? That your dad is the one shouting vile shit towards players? If he’s (rightly) insistent on tackling racism then he should be all over sexism too. I know some may think this point is clutching at straws but this kind of stuff is currently all over social media. Whether we agree or not, what he’s said is inadvertently sexist.

And lastly, the ending is ironic. He talks about why is there so much hatred in football and doesn’t realise that presenters like him who ridicule football teams and football fans are stirring up the hatred every single day of the week, just so their bosses can make money. It doesn’t matter if it’s classed as ‘banter’, we all know lots of fans can’t take it. Obviously Durham and the likes of Cundy aren’t the sole cause of anger in football but fuck me they add to it and he can’t see the irony in his statement. How many times does our blood boil listening to his shit when he’s on a wind up? He slates players regularly, yesterday it was Noble (is he a West Ham legend or does he sum up everything about the club and is just a mediocre player for a mediocre team etc - yeah that’s funny for us but you see the point I’m making). As we all know, Carragher got so wound up he called in when Durham called him a coward/bottler for retiring from England. Wind up merchant causing anger.

So yeah, he starts off summarising it well and I agree 100% with what he says about racism in parts of the media but the rest of it? Nah. I didn’t think that was anywhere near as powerful as Sterling’s own statement about it.

Yeah I kind of lost him when he was talking about Lukaku. I don't see how people calling Lukaku lazy is racist at all, I didn't really get what his point was with that to be honest, he ends up almost making out like you can't criticise black players otherwise you're inadvertently being racist which doesn't really make sense. I agree with him that sometimes people are racist without really meaning to be because they just don't think about it, but I think he kind of gets lost and goes off on a tangent that doesn't really make much sense.

He's bang on about the media needing to take a second and think about what they're doing more though.

And I agree completely with you about Sterling not being captain. Doesn't seem like a good fit at all and that's nothing to do with him being black.
 

mickdale

Well-Known Member
Apr 5, 2016
1,069
1,409
Bosnich being interviewed this morning saying spurs should tie Poch down to a long term 4 or 5 year contract. He’s just recently signed one

Fat Sam saying we should play at Wembley the rest of the season as we may not do as well in the new stadium....

Talkshite
 

allatsea

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
8,865
16,053
Bosnich being interviewed this morning saying spurs should tie Poch down to a long term 4 or 5 year contract. He’s just recently signed one

Fat Sam saying we should play at Wembley the rest of the season as we may not do as well in the new stadium....

Talkshite
They certainly are
 

Gb160

Well done boys. Good process
Jun 20, 2012
23,646
93,313
Bosnich being interviewed this morning saying spurs should tie Poch down to a long term 4 or 5 year contract. He’s just recently signed one

Fat Sam saying we should play at Wembley the rest of the season as we may not do as well in the new stadium....

Talkshite
They have Bosnich on there all the time, and I've never heard him say anything remotely insightful.
He just trots out the same old lazy, red top, narrative of the moment.
Wanker.
 

Monkey boy

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2011
6,380
17,039
Just listened to it - starts off well but aside from the first minute or two, I didn’t agree with much of the rest of it. He spent a lot of time saying you can’t call a black player lazy because of the connotations it may have. I genuinely don’t get that. Hoddle was called lazy. In fact some nicknamed him Glenda (can you imagine the fuss that would cause nowadays). People called Ginola lazy as he wouldn’t track back. He used one example in Aguero but there are plenty throughout the years and presently who are ‘lazy’ non-black players that have been called out. I wouldn’t say Lukaku is lazy anyway but I’m not sure how this can be perceived as racist. I’ve never come across that perception concerning a professional black man. I obviously get the ‘famous’ stereotypes like the criminal thing, not having a dad around or eating fried chicken etc... all wrong/lazy stereotypes.... and even positive stereotypes like having a large cock but I haven’t heard the lazy thing. Especially concerning a professional athlete. Calling a black man lazy because he’s black is 100% racist and ignorant but calling Lukaku lazy because it may be perceived that he’s not making the necessary runs needed, or he’s not tracking back or he’s too unfit due to all the muscle/fat he’s gained isn’t racist.

I wouldn’t really want Sterling to be England captain either. He’s far from captain material. Surely what he’s saying is positive discrimination. Wanting someone to be captain just because of his colour. I understand the part about coming through adversity and the admirable way he’s dealt with all the media shit, but that doesn’t mean he’s a captain on the football pitch. There have been many excellent black captains - King, Ince, Vieira etc but I haven’t seen anything on the pitch that makes him captain material yet. Maybe in a few years?

Also, you could argue that Durham has come across as a bit sexist by saying ‘think about your mum, think about your grandma’.... what about your dad? Or is he assuming your dad is the problem? That your dad is the one shouting vile shit towards players? If he’s (rightly) insistent on tackling racism then he should be all over sexism too. I know some may think this point is clutching at straws but this kind of stuff is currently all over social media. Whether we agree or not, what he’s said is inadvertently sexist.

And lastly, the ending is ironic. He talks about why is there so much hatred in football and doesn’t realise that presenters like him who ridicule football teams and football fans are stirring up the hatred every single day of the week, just so their bosses can make money. It doesn’t matter if it’s classed as ‘banter’, we all know lots of fans can’t take it. Obviously Durham and the likes of Cundy aren’t the sole cause of anger in football but fuck me they add to it and he can’t see the irony in his statement. How many times does our blood boil listening to his shit when he’s on a wind up? He slates players regularly, yesterday it was Noble (is he a West Ham legend or does he sum up everything about the club and is just a mediocre player for a mediocre team etc - yeah that’s funny for us but you see the point I’m making). As we all know, Carragher got so wound up he called in when Durham called him a coward/bottler for retiring from England. Wind up merchant causing anger.

So yeah, he starts off summarising it well and I agree 100% with what he says about racism in parts of the media but the rest of it? Nah. I didn’t think that was anywhere near as powerful as Sterling’s own statement about it.

I’ve been meaning to write a reply along these lines for a few days now but couldn’t have put it any better than what you have.

I’m pretty sure that 99% of the anger in football nowadays is there because of the media and social media. Some of the things that he inparticular comes out with is so ridiculous that it really does make your blood boil, even more so when the morons who can’t distinguish between reality and “banter” carry on with these ideas throughout the season. He needs to take a long hard look at himself before he starts lobbing stones in other people’s directoon.

Oh and I’m pretty sure he calls Ozil lazy at least once a week or is that ok?
 

Gb160

Well done boys. Good process
Jun 20, 2012
23,646
93,313
Just listened to it - starts off well but aside from the first minute or two, I didn’t agree with much of the rest of it. He spent a lot of time saying you can’t call a black player lazy because of the connotations it may have. I genuinely don’t get that. Hoddle was called lazy. In fact some nicknamed him Glenda (can you imagine the fuss that would cause nowadays). People called Ginola lazy as he wouldn’t track back. He used one example in Aguero but there are plenty throughout the years and presently who are ‘lazy’ non-black players that have been called out. I wouldn’t say Lukaku is lazy anyway but I’m not sure how this can be perceived as racist. I’ve never come across that perception concerning a professional black man. I obviously get the ‘famous’ stereotypes like the criminal thing, not having a dad around or eating fried chicken etc... all wrong/lazy stereotypes.... and even positive stereotypes like having a large cock but I haven’t heard the lazy thing. Especially concerning a professional athlete. Calling a black man lazy because he’s black is 100% racist and ignorant but calling Lukaku lazy because it may be perceived that he’s not making the necessary runs needed, or he’s not tracking back or he’s too unfit due to all the muscle/fat he’s gained isn’t racist.

I wouldn’t really want Sterling to be England captain either. He’s far from captain material. Surely what he’s saying is positive discrimination. Wanting someone to be captain just because of his colour. I understand the part about coming through adversity and the admirable way he’s dealt with all the media shit, but that doesn’t mean he’s a captain on the football pitch. There have been many excellent black captains - King, Ince, Vieira etc but I haven’t seen anything on the pitch that makes him captain material yet. Maybe in a few years?

Also, you could argue that Durham has come across as a bit sexist by saying ‘think about your mum, think about your grandma’.... what about your dad? Or is he assuming your dad is the problem? That your dad is the one shouting vile shit towards players? If he’s (rightly) insistent on tackling racism then he should be all over sexism too. I know some may think this point is clutching at straws but this kind of stuff is currently all over social media. Whether we agree or not, what he’s said is inadvertently sexist.

And lastly, the ending is ironic. He talks about why is there so much hatred in football and doesn’t realise that presenters like him who ridicule football teams and football fans are stirring up the hatred every single day of the week, just so their bosses can make money. It doesn’t matter if it’s classed as ‘banter’, we all know lots of fans can’t take it. Obviously Durham and the likes of Cundy aren’t the sole cause of anger in football but fuck me they add to it and he can’t see the irony in his statement. How many times does our blood boil listening to his shit when he’s on a wind up? He slates players regularly, yesterday it was Noble (is he a West Ham legend or does he sum up everything about the club and is just a mediocre player for a mediocre team etc - yeah that’s funny for us but you see the point I’m making). As we all know, Carragher got so wound up he called in when Durham called him a coward/bottler for retiring from England. Wind up merchant causing anger.

So yeah, he starts off summarising it well and I agree 100% with what he says about racism in parts of the media but the rest of it? Nah. I didn’t think that was anywhere near as powerful as Sterling’s own statement about it.
Yeah I kind of lost him when he was talking about Lukaku. I don't see how people calling Lukaku lazy is racist at all, I didn't really get what his point was with that to be honest, he ends up almost making out like you can't criticise black players otherwise you're inadvertently being racist which doesn't really make sense. I agree with him that sometimes people are racist without really meaning to be because they just don't think about it, but I think he kind of gets lost and goes off on a tangent that doesn't really make much sense.

He's bang on about the media needing to take a second and think about what they're doing more though.

And I agree completely with you about Sterling not being captain. Doesn't seem like a good fit at all and that's nothing to do with him being black.
I’ve been meaning to write a reply along these lines for a few days now but couldn’t have put it any better than what you have.

I’m pretty sure that 99% of the anger in football nowadays is there because of the media and social media. Some of the things that he inparticular comes out with is so ridiculous that it really does make your blood boil, even more so when the morons who can’t distinguish between reality and “banter” carry on with these ideas throughout the season. He needs to take a long hard look at himself before he starts lobbing stones in other people’s directoon.

Oh and I’m pretty sure he calls Ozil lazy at least once a week or is that ok?

Its pretty simple really, black people in general, and especially black players in the 70s, were stereotyped as being lazy...so it comes down to sensitivity.

In another example, if a black fella actually was the spitting image of a monkey...would you think it was right to describe him as one, or call him that?
Im guessing you wouldn't for the same reason, sensitivity...even if it was factually accurate.

Martin Keown is the most monkey like human being that's ever walked the earth....but its fine for us to call him that because there's no history of white people being called 'monkey', it's merely an observation of his appearance.
 

'O Zio

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2014
7,405
13,785
Its pretty simple really, black people in general, and especially black players in the 70s, were stereotyped as being lazy...so it comes down to sensitivity.

In another example, if a black fella actually was the spitting image of a monkey...would you think it was right to describe him as one, or call him that?
Im guessing you wouldn't for the same reason, sensitivity...even if it was factually accurate.

Martin Keown is the most monkey like human being that's ever walked the earth....but its fine for us to call him that because there's no history of white people being called 'monkey', it's merely an observation of his appearance.

In a utopian world I think you should be able to describe anyone as anything if it's true. I understand what you're saying and the answer is no I would never describe a black person as looking like a monkey because of the obvious outcry that would ensue, but I think that's wrong. I think we should all be treated equally regardless of skin colour so IMO you should be able to take the mickey out of someone even if they're black. The fact that someone is BAME shouldn't automatically mean they're completely off-limits for any sort of negative comment, that's just ridiculous.

I'm not saying that should stretch as far as racist abuse obviously, but if someone looks like a monkey cos they have big ears or whatever then if it's fine to say that to a white person it should be fine to say it to a black person. If you're saying it purely because they're black then that's obviously a different issue, but if you're saying it because they have big ears then I don't think that should be racist because, as you say, we'd happily say that about e.g. Martin Keown.

Regarding Lukaku, I just don't see how it's racist at all to call him lazy. OK so there was a stereotype in the 70s that black players were lazy, but to be honest that stereotype doesn't exist any more. Plenty of players get called lazy all the time, and his putting on weight and lack of running show that he has been lazy so it's just a true statement. Maybe there's one or two people out there who only call him lazy because he's black, but the overwhelming majority of people who call him lazy are doing so because they think he's lazy, it has bugger all to do with him being black.
 

Gb160

Well done boys. Good process
Jun 20, 2012
23,646
93,313
In a utopian world I think you should be able to describe anyone as anything if it's true. I understand what you're saying and the answer is no I would never describe a black person as looking like a monkey because of the obvious outcry that would ensue, but I think that's wrong. I think we should all be treated equally regardless of skin colour so IMO you should be able to take the mickey out of someone even if they're black. The fact that someone is BAME shouldn't automatically mean they're completely off-limits for any sort of negative comment, that's just ridiculous.

I'm not saying that should stretch as far as racist abuse obviously, but if someone looks like a monkey cos they have big ears or whatever then if it's fine to say that to a white person it should be fine to say it to a black person. If you're saying it purely because they're black then that's obviously a different issue, but if you're saying it because they have big ears then I don't think that should be racist because, as you say, we'd happily say that about e.g. Martin Keown.

Regarding Lukaku, I just don't see how it's racist at all to call him lazy. OK so there was a stereotype in the 70s that black players were lazy, but to be honest that stereotype doesn't exist any more. Plenty of players get called lazy all the time, and his putting on weight and lack of running show that he has been lazy so it's just a true statement. Maybe there's one or two people out there who only call him lazy because he's black, but the overwhelming majority of people who call him lazy are doing so because they think he's lazy, it has bugger all to do with him being black.
I completely agree with you, it's just daft that we have to tread on eggshells, but because of the actions of some stupid, racist people that are probably now dead...that's where we are unfortunately.

I think Durham brought it up, not to necessarily aim it at us fans, but towards the media in general...to call a black player lazy fuels a racist narrative, and when read or heard by a racist...just reinforces their stupid racist opinions.
 
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'O Zio

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2014
7,405
13,785
I completely agree with you, it's just daft that we have to tread on eggshells, but because of the actions of some stupid, racist people that are probably now dead...that's where we are unfortunately.

I think Durham brought it not to necessarily aim it at us fans, but towards the media in general...to call a black player lazy fuels a racist narrative, and when read or heard by a racist...just reinforces their stupid racist opinions.

In that sense then I do agree with him, but only in the sense of what he was saying about the editors needing to take a second to think about the impact of these things before they go ahead and publish. I don't, however, think that every time an article says something negative about a black player that it should automatically be called racist, which is where he kind of seemed to go off on a tangent about.
 

allatsea

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
8,865
16,053
So true the recent posts but what does it say about an education system and home parenting that people are unable to distinguish between fact and banter ?
 

bomberH

Well-Known Member
Jun 4, 2005
28,454
168,207
Its pretty simple really, black people in general, and especially black players in the 70s, were stereotyped as being lazy...so it comes down to sensitivity.

In another example, if a black fella actually was the spitting image of a monkey...would you think it was right to describe him as one, or call him that?
Im guessing you wouldn't for the same reason, sensitivity...even if it was factually accurate.

Martin Keown is the most monkey like human being that's ever walked the earth....but its fine for us to call him that because there's no history of white people being called 'monkey', it's merely an observation of his appearance.

I get what you’re saying but if you’re in a professional sport that pretty much relies on absolute fitness of the highest level, both mentally and physically then players, black and white, have to accept being called lazy if that’s what they’re being perceived as. If Lukaku literally didn’t make a run all game or someone passed it to him but it was just a few yards too long and he didn’t bother attempting to run for it, what else do you call that? In a sport that relies on fitness, lazy is one of the criticisms that come with the territory. If it was aimed at a black person in a non sporting profession then that’s different, although obviously you’d have to consider each circumstance individually.

Racism in these circumstances being talked about would be if a black player and a white player who play in the same position did exactly the same amount of running etc but all the criticism was aimed towards the black player.
 

Gb160

Well done boys. Good process
Jun 20, 2012
23,646
93,313
Racism in these circumstances being talked about would be if a black player and a white player who play in the same position did exactly the same amount of running etc but all the criticism was aimed towards the black player.
This is pretty much his point though.
When compared to Aguero, who before Pep came, used to just stand around waiting for the ball to come to him...not once was he ever labelled lazy.
Lukaku on the other hand...
 

Rocksuperstar

Isn't this fun? Isn't fun the best thing to have?
Jun 6, 2005
53,288
66,756
Because racism is currently in the spotlight, any criticism of anyone other than a white player will be immediate, subconsciously, scanned for racist intent. It's a symptom of today - we want to be more sensitive to other cultures so we try to police ourselves, which is the right thing to do, but while white people are under the spotlight to make reasonable adjustments to the things we say and do and respect the way other cultures go about their day, I sometimes feel that the same doesn't happen the other way around.

The word lazy has a meaning and is used daily. I do not associate "lazy" with "black", never have, but as a kid I do recall many words that were used to stereotype other communities much more prominently. To decide that a commonly used adjective is offensive to you personally is fine, argue it, but to declare it offensive to an entire community seems a bit excessive. It feels a lot like there are many instances where it's not the colour of someone's skin that can lead to offence being taken, it's how thick it is.

We need perspective. To focus on African, and to a large extent Asian, slavery - yes, it was an absolute disgraceful period of history for our species and it's right that we need to acknowledge that regularly to stop future generations from having the same attitudes of those ignorant ancestors, and that in our quest to the middle of this social-see-saw we will push back and forth for a bit, but "overcorrecting" society is something we're risking right now. There has to be some middle ground found and as I sit here listening to Wu-Tang at 10.30 in the morning (yeah, I don't know, I just need to hear Gravel Pit and it's carried on playing) I hear them use words that are only acceptable because half of those who would (and maybe should) be offended don't understand what they mean. That's cheating.
 

Rocksuperstar

Isn't this fun? Isn't fun the best thing to have?
Jun 6, 2005
53,288
66,756
This is pretty much his point though.
When compared to Aguero, who before Pep came, used to just stand around waiting for the ball to come to him...not once was he ever labelled lazy.
Lukaku on the other hand...

That's a different problem though, this is a media bias problem, not racism from the general population.

Aguero moves around, he's smart with where he places himself to split up defenders, he wanders slowly out of position and drags people with him, he makes dangerous areas on the pitch by seeing gaps opening up and making moves toward them. He's doing a lot of work keeping the midfield and defenders on their toes knowing he could break on them any minute. Lukaku doesn't do any of that. He hangs around with his marker and creates no threat until someone delivers him the ball. He hasn't got the pace to suddenly run on to a long ball or skin his man and he doesn't appear to adapt his game for it.

This has nothing to do with his colour - Linekar was a bit of a lazy player too, he was a proper goal hanger for a long time. Berbatov was a lazy player - its nothing to do with their heritage or skin colour, but the media have been pulled up for this a few times and there is plenty of evidence to prove that they do have a bias in the way they report on footballers. It's that needs addressing, not fans who call a sp... ah, fuck it... erm, a rose by any other name?

phew, that was close... was nearly my grandad for a second! ;)
 

buckley

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2012
2,595
6,073
On the point of Ginola not tracking back I must be one of a small minority that would have had Andy Sinton over Ginola always I feel Ginola was one of the most overrated players to play for us even tho for us he had god like status .Not only not tracking back but leaving the full back exposed all the time and the throwing his arms in the air when he lost the ball like a spoiled child was so so frustrating.
I expect abuse but give me 100% player who plays full on every week over the once in a while genius and there is a reason that the likes of Fergie said he was "not interested at all in Ginola"
 

Gb160

Well done boys. Good process
Jun 20, 2012
23,646
93,313
That's a different problem though, this is a media bias problem, not racism from the general population.
That's what Durham was referring to though...when hacks do this it feeds the narrative that racist readers/listeners follow.
 

Rocksuperstar

Isn't this fun? Isn't fun the best thing to have?
Jun 6, 2005
53,288
66,756
That's what Durham was referring to though...when hacks do this it feeds the narrative that racist readers/listeners follow.

I don't think it increases racism though, it's not quite enough to "convert" people into racists, it simply stokes the boilers of those who already have that attitude.

The recent kerfuffle over the two young players who bought houses, the white lad "for his mum, great investment, what a darling", the black lad, "splashing the cash, not even played a first team game, what a dick" is just embarrasing, and possibly the clearest example in recent memory, but since the day Sterling made his statement the press has moved on and aren't interested in protests - that's old news, so they don't care anymore.

Media being 24/7 has turned it into a freight train and even if they do make some token gesture, like fire the guy who wrote the article, the editor is still there, the headline writers are still there, and the owners are still in charge and they all want paying so sensationalism is just fine with them. Hey, they fired the guy! Come on! There's only two ways it stops - either a giant controversy, like the NotW, or people stop buying their shit and it becomes financially not worth it to the owner.
 

Monkey boy

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2011
6,380
17,039
On the point of Ginola not tracking back I must be one of a small minority that would have had Andy Sinton over Ginola always I feel Ginola was one of the most overrated players to play for us even tho for us he had god like status .Not only not tracking back but leaving the full back exposed all the time and the throwing his arms in the air when he lost the ball like a spoiled child was so so frustrating.
I expect abuse but give me 100% player who plays full on every week over the once in a while genius and there is a reason that the likes of Fergie said he was "not interested at all in Ginola"

You’re dead to me
 

bomberH

Well-Known Member
Jun 4, 2005
28,454
168,207
This is pretty much his point though.
When compared to Aguero, who before Pep came, used to just stand around waiting for the ball to come to him...not once was he ever labelled lazy.
Lukaku on the other hand...

I think there are many factors surrounding this though. Lukaku had never played for a big club and the price tag meant every game would be scrutinised. Aguero had played for a big club and proved himself for years. I would think that even if some City fans used to think he was quite lazy, they didn’t care because he was always scoring goals whereas Lukaku isn’t. So basically if you do fuck all but score 30 a season it’s cool. If you do fuck all and score 10 for instance, with a £90M price tag on top of that.... at the biggest club in the world...

As has been said, Ginola was lazy as fuck but gave us some of our most entertaining football in a horrid period in our history so fans (apart from buckley above ?) didn’t care and loved him for what he was. If he didn’t produce the goods or got tackled every time he tried a dribble etc then he would’ve been called out for other things like his laziness. So even though Aguero didn’t run around as much as he does now, he always produced the goods which is why he generally escaped criticism. Berbatov is another great example. He was ‘lazy’ here and at Utd and was called that by fans and media. But it didn’t matter because he was amazing for us and scored a hatrick against Liverpool for them.
 
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