Let's all wonder what's going on at United?

Discussion in 'General Football' started by E.L.Strict, Aug 31, 2015.

  1. E.L.Strict

    E.L.Strict Cerebral Houdini Staff

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    I think things are finely poised down at old Trafford? Do people think they will return to their spot as the most dominant club in the country? Or are they the next Liverpool?

    On the pitch problems:

    1. They have their worst squad in my memory
    2. They could be left weak at GK, and looking a bit stupid if De Gea leaves.
    3. 10-15 years worth of sub-par signings has left them with few players who look like improving much.
    4. Rooney is fat, overrated and hasn't performed in a while.
    5. Teams haven't feared them for some time now.

    Off the pitch problems:
    1. Rooney (worth a more detailed assessment later)
    2. No Fergie
    3. Almost inexplicable refusal of the top players to join them. (also worth a more detailed assessment)
    4. City and Chelsea muscling United out of the market for the top players in the Premiership.
    5. Chelsea and City probably doing everything they can behind the scenes to undermine them (eg. Kenyon to Chelsea)

    So what's going on?

    I think the biggest factor is Wayne Rooney. Don't forget that he has handed in two transfer requests, one in 2010 and then again at the end of the 12/13 season. The 2010 request played out as a much greater scandal, with Fergie ruthlessly hanging Rooney out to dry. Rooney's response pissed everyone off, most notably Evra and Vidic who spoke out against him in the media. Less than a week after the request Rooney signs a bumper new deal, and personally I think the after effects of this are still hurting United. The following few seasons Fergie and Rooney were obviously not on great terms. Fergie demonstrated a reluctance to play Rooney in the "star man" role, signing Van Persie, and relegating Rooney to the bench for important CL games. At the end of the '13 season Fergie confirms that rooney has requested to leave. New manager Moyes continues with Fergie's anti-Rooney narrative ("Rooney will be back up for RVP") until September when Fergie does a grovelling interview for MUTV in praise of Rooney. On the surface the issue has been resolved.

    The first thing I wonder is how have Rooney's insults and subsequent pay rises affected the culture at United? Evra and Vidic in particular were very vocal about basically saying "Fuck off, Rooney." I don't think it is a co-incidence that those two players both left United at a time when they were desperately needed.

    The second thing I suspect, is the possibility of a growing understanding among players that going to United will mean you are used as an accessory to make Rooney look better than he is.

    The third thing, and rank outsider in the probability stakes, is that the relationship between Fergie and Rooney was actually non-existant to the extent that Rooney was refusing to play for him. Nobody mentions that keeping Rooney at United could have been a factor in Fergie's retirement, but the way it all played out makes me see it as a possibility. Without Rooney, United lose that "sweethearts of the FA" position, which imo has helped them a lot over the last 15 years.


    The second massive question mark is over their transfer dealings.

    United are the biggest institution in the country, can pay huge fees and huge wages, and on top of this have got back into the Champions League. I simply cannot understand why they are having so much trouble signing top players. Depay, Schneiderlin, and Martial, if he joins, may be players that are too good for us, but they are in no way the level of signing I would expect from United. I think something is going on.

    Has the treatment of influential players like Evra and Vidic caused a belief that United is a bad place to go? Have Chelsea and City paid off agents to try and get players to prefer moves elsewhere? Have they pissed off super-agent Jorge Mendes?

    Something is the reason and I don't think it is the usual type of reason.

    Jorge Mendes is the agent who seems to own almost all of the players. Despite being involved in deals all over Europe, United is the only team who has it's own section on Mendes' wikipedia page. If you have a little look, you will see that he has been taking the piss out of them for quite some time now. Bringing Ronaldo to United 12 years ago was the last nice thing he did for them. Since them he has burdened them with Anderson and Nani in 2007, helped Real Madrid sign Ronaldo in 2009, and laughed his head off when flogging them Bebe for £7 million in 2010. He brought them De Gea in 2011 but now seems to have no interest in helping United keep him. Last season in my opinion showed a tremendous failure of United to "woo" Mendes after providing two of his players a lifeline in Di Maria and Falcao. United took a massive financial loss on Di Maria after just one year, and Mendes openly criticised their handling of Falcao, saying he should be starting more (clearly instead of Rooney.)


    Personally I think United are at this stage now instead of 5 years ago due to mostly to good fortune. Abramovic and Mourinho's relationship became frosty, and bargain basement signings like Ben Haim and Sidwell helped United stay on top of Chelsea just when it looked like they were about to become the dominant force.

    What United no longer have that they did have in the 90s is:
    - the best team
    - the most money
    - the choice of any Premiership player that they wanted
    - the status of being "the" premiership destination for top foreign players
    - A legendary manager
    - the fear that opposition teams always had when playing them
    - the favour of the FA due to their core of important English players

    That is a long, and imo very significant list of factors. I honestly see no signs that United will do anything more than make up the numbers for the foreseeable future.

    Thoughts? It looks a mess over there to me.
     
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  2. class of 62

    class of 62 Well-Known Member

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    and rooneys hair transplant hasn't worked either.:LOL::LOL:
     
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  3. TheChosenOne

    TheChosenOne The only way is up

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    World's second most indebted club in the world. £342 mill.

    Behind Chelsea who just under a billion ..to Roman
     
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  4. Geyzer Soze

    Geyzer Soze Fearlessly the idiot faced the crowd

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    God I hope that Roman either loses interest & bails or that he goes down & his assets liquidized by the Russian state!

    Either could so easily happen
     
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  5. Japhet

    Japhet Well-Known Member

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    Must have seen the ads for Quick Quid and Wonga and not read the small print.
     
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  6. Azazello

    Azazello The Boney King of Nowhere

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    It all just shows what a piss poor job they did with the post Ferguson succession planning, which doesn't seem to have extended much beyond "the chosen one will sort ot out, he's Scottish too".

    They're reaping what they've sowed, or, rather, what they haven't.
     
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  7. DCSPUR

    DCSPUR Well-Known Member

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    shame is that the leveraged play the glazers made is sort of working - big money coming in from overseas - shirt deal is ridiculous.
    Thankfully LVG is wasting money hand over fist - a good manager there the last couple of years and they would be in incredible shape. There is little sign of planning with LVG and co
     
  8. VegasII

    VegasII Well-Known Member

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    Money for old rope?
     
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  9. Spurger King

    Spurger King can't smile without glue

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    I think the problems started under Fergie. It seemed to me that in his last couple of seasons he lost interest in building for the future - something he'd always done seamlessly. Despite winning the title in his last season, the side itself looked pretty average in places, with defenders and midfielders that could do a job but weren't likely to sustain any level of form for too long.

    By the end Fergie was championing some real dross like Cleverley, so I think he'd either lost the will to plan for the club's post-Fergie days, or just lost the ability to identify good players.
     
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  10. TheChosenOne

    TheChosenOne The only way is up

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  11. Geyzer Soze

    Geyzer Soze Fearlessly the idiot faced the crowd

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    That would be the 'kind' analysis

    The unkind one would be to suggest that a failing Utd after he left would burnish his rep & ego & put an even brighter shine on his years there
     
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  12. Spurger King

    Spurger King can't smile without glue

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    Hmm, maybe. I think Moyes was a very reasonable choice at the time, and was personally recommended by Fergie. A lot of people thought he'd do well for United but their owners and fans didn't have the patience to let him settle.
     
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  13. Geyzer Soze

    Geyzer Soze Fearlessly the idiot faced the crowd

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    You have more respect for Moyes than I do clearly! :D

    I've always thought him a fekkin idiot

    (& I think van Gaal's one too)
     
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  14. Lilbaz

    Lilbaz Just call me Baz

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    At the end of the season utd will be in the top 3. They have a good chance of winning it. A season is not 4 games long and they have added quite a few players.
     
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  15. aliyid

    aliyid Well-Known Member

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    Get the feeling you don't like Rooney... :whistle:

    Seriously though worst Utd squad in your memory o_O you must get suicidal looking at ours

    If they had a decent manager they'd be challengers but LVG doesn't appear to know how to get them working as a coherent unit.

    They'll struggle for top four but will prob get there due to Liverpool being just as bad and us not putting teams away when we have the chance.
     
  16. AW?

    AW? Formerly known as *******Who?

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    I think the last season they won the league they had their worst squad for as long as I can remember. As ridiculous as that sounds, the rest just weren't up to it that year.
     
  17. Ribble

    Ribble Well-Known Member

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    I think they not only lost Fergie but a good negotiator in David Gill, who actually went out and got transfers done whilst not seeming like a bumbling moron.
     
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  18. arunspurs

    arunspurs Well-Known Member

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    Whats happening at United is laughable. One of their famous fan chant is 'attack attack attack' - where their players break with pace & take teams apart under Fergie.
    Now, there is absolutely no pace & no legs in their team.

    Blind, Rojo - no pace.
    Bastian, Schneiderlin, Fellaini - no pace
    Rooney, Mata - no pace
    Smalling, Shaw & Darmain, Young - they have pace but in the wrong end of the attack
    Welbeck sold, Januzaj loaned, Hernandez sold, Di Maria sold -lost pace again
    Depay is unconvincing in the first 4 games, while Martial will now have the weight of 36m in his shoulders.

    What we are going to see from United in next 2 years is boring predictable football. If teams have pace & can get their tactics correct like Swansea did, United are dead meat.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2015
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  19. DCSPUR

    DCSPUR Well-Known Member

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    thing is Uweenited will probably finish in the top 4 because liverpool and us are not ready to step in but the amount of money wasted keeps them closer to the chasing pack. With the money the bumbling dutch man has spent they should be challenging Citeh all the way and be a force in the CL.

    Above us - sadly yes this season.

    Much better than us (or Liverpool) - nope - thank you agent LVG
     
  20. Syn_13

    Syn_13 Fly On, Little Wing

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    I can't help but feel that the shenanigans with De Gea yesterday were completely staged by United. They could've easily done a deal last week, or even last month. It's strange that they suddenly turned round to Madrid, on their last day of being able to sign players, and said they were happy to sell. It would've also left them in the shit really, as Romero and Keylor Navas, as decent as they are, are not the replacement United fans would want. I reckon they were just trolling Madrid and pretending to the player that they were willing to let him go so he doesn't flat out refuse to play in the weeks to come.
     
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