Let's All Laugh At... Let's all wonder what's going on at United?

[Shadydan]

He's a nutcase but his trophy cabinet is full. I don't think they'll win it this year but i wouldn't underestimate him.

Not if he's going to prioritise possession play

 

[tooey]

This is what I meant earlier about romanticising the past. People tend to hold the achievements of people from previous generations in higher regard than that of current players.

Plenty of people argue that Messi isn't as good as Maradona. It wasn't until the real Ronaldo has retired that people started to think he might be one of the greats.

There's no romanticising going in here. Zidane was a once in a generation player. Top 10 in his position of all time. C'mon man.

 

[Lilbaz]

There's no romanticising going in here. Zidane was a once in a generation player. Top 10 in his position of all time. C'mon man.

Don't know about once in a generation player. Brazilian ronaldo played at the same time as him.

 

[beats1]

Not sure I read that right, ZZ and Ronaldo not UberLegends? Serous?

They aren't talked about the same class as Ronaldo, Messi, Pele and Maradona are they?

 

[Spurger King]

They aren't talked about the same class as Ronaldo, Messi, Pele and Maradona are they?

I think you have a point with real Ronaldo. I loved him as a player, and thought he was one of the greatest strikers, but the four you mentioned were/are on another level in terms of all round consistency (though real Ronaldo obviously did the business in the World Cups).

With Zidane it's a bit different. His game wasn't about goals so he's not going to feature highly on any 'record breaker' lists - nor would he be expected to. It's like Beckenbauer, Cruyff, Paulo Maldini, or even Iniesta. Absolutely top-tier players (whatever that means) that were just incredible at what they did. Zidane is certainly in that category as one of the greats - it's just that when people talk about the greatest footballer of all time they tend to look at goal scorers.

 

[beats1]

The one where he was top goalscorer with 8 goals? Watch the highlights of his goals and listen to the commentators wank themselves stupid over him.

Prior to that world cup he was labelled a bit of a joke, I think that world cup cemented his status as one of the greats

The reason he was labelled a joke was because of that night in paris before the match and the conflicting stories that came out

I think after 2002 he was pretty much considered a legend and one of the best strikers to have played

This is what I meant earlier about romanticising the past. People tend to hold the achievements of people from previous generations in higher regard than that of current players.

Plenty of people argue that Messi isn't as good as Maradona. It wasn't until the real Ronaldo has retired that people started to think he might be one of the greats.

I think he went through a period where he had a black mark against which was the world cup after that crazy night and he was pretty much blamed for losing the world cup

Then he restored his glory in 2002 and was considered a great before becoming a joke again with him having his weight problems and stories from off the pitch that it wasn't a while after his retirement he was considered a legend again

I think the same happened with Zidane, that one moment of madness overshadowed an ending to what was a great career which should have ended in his world cup

 

[Gbspurs]

There's no romanticising going in here. Zidane was a once in a generation player. Top 10 in his position of all time. C'mon man.

I wasn't even talking about Zidane!

 

[Lilbaz]

They aren't talked about the same class as Ronaldo, Messi, Pele and Maradona are they?

In 20 years time brazilian ronaldo will probably be rated the same level as messi or ronaldo. Unless one of them wins a world cup.

 

[Lilbaz]

Prior to that world cup he was labelled a bit of a joke, I think that world cup cemented his status as one of the greats

The reason he was labelled a joke was because of that night in paris before the match and the conflicting stories that came out

I think after 2002 he was pretty much considered a legend and one of the best strikers to have played

I think he went through a period where he had a black mark against which was the world cup after that crazy night and he was pretty much blamed for losing the world cup

Then he restored his glory in 2002 and was considered a great before becoming a joke again with him having his weight problems and stories from off the pitch that it wasn't a while after his retirement he was considered a legend again

I think the same happened with Zidane, that one moment of madness overshadowed an ending to what was a great career which should have ended in his world cup

He wasn't a joke at all. He had a really bad injury that meant he missed over a year of football from 2000-2001. But still managed to score 49 goals in 68 games for inter.

 

[beats1]

He wasn't a joke at all. He had a really bad injury that meant he missed over a year of football from 2000-2001. But still managed to score 49 goals in 68 games for inter.

He wasn't a joke on the pitch still but he was made out to be a joke in Brazil which even had its own congress investigation in to what happened in that night and the conspiracy stories afterwards

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2002/jun/29/worldcupfootball2002.sport3

 

[Blake Griffin]

This Utd side will not win the title, not under LVG anyway.

thought this was interesting

 

[beats1]

I think you have a point with real Ronaldo. I loved him as a player, and thought he was one of the greatest strikers, but the four you mentioned were/are on another level in terms of all round consistency (though real Ronaldo obviously did the business in the World Cups).

With Zidane it's a bit different. His game wasn't about goals so he's not going to feature highly on any 'record breaker' lists - nor would he be expected to. It's like Beckenbauer, Cruyff, Paulo Maldini, or even Iniesta. Absolutely top-tier players (whatever that means) that were just incredible at what they did. Zidane is certainly in that category as one of the greats - it's just that when people talk about the greatest footballer of all time they tend to look at goal scorers.

I get what you are saying but the likes of Best, Zidane, Cruyff and etc aren't talked about the same as the others even though some players had more of an effect on the game of football like Cruyff

It seems the one of the slights held against the likes of Platini, Best and Cruyff and etc. was that they didn't win a world cup or even represent their country in one in best's case

Whilst Zidane imo had he won that second world cup, would have been talked as one of the true greats of all time but whether he would have after the emergence of messi and ronaldo is another thing

Even now some people hold the world cup against Messi, that said it is an absolute joke that Argentina hasn't won any competition since 1993 especially given the talent that they have

 

[Lilbaz]

He wasn't a joke on the pitch still but he was made out to be a joke in Brazil which even had its own congress investigation in to what happened in that night and the conspiracy stories afterwards

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2002/jun/29/worldcupfootball2002.sport3

I remember it well. But that doesn't really have any bearing on how he is remembered as a footballer. Which is one of the greats.

 

[Spurger King]

I get what you are saying but the likes of Best, Zidane, Cruyff and etc aren't talked about the same as the others even though some players had more of an effect on the game of football like Cruyff

It seems the one of the slights held against the likes of Platini, Best and Cruyff and etc. was that they didn't win a world cup or even represent their country in one in best's case

Whilst Zidane imo had he won that second world cup, would have been talked as one of the true greats of all time but whether he would have after the emergence of messi and ronaldo is another thing

Even now some people hold the world cup against Messi, that said it is an absolute joke that Argentina hasn't won any competition since 1993 especially given the talent that they have

As I said, the 'greatest footballer' debate is generally centred on goal scorers.

The whole 'but has he ever won a World Cup' debate is redundant now, in my opinion. The highest quality tournament in the world is the CL these days, and Messi has won that plenty of times.

Obviously it's all subjective but I'd happily call Zidane one of the greats of the game. He'll just never be in the 'greatest ever' debates because he can't compete with the goals scored by the big four.

Imagine if you were discussing the greatest Spurs player of all time. Greaves would be up there immediately as a remarkable goal scorer (possibly followed by Lineker), but you also have the likes of Mackay, Hoddle, Gazza, Dozzell, and King - not goal scorers but still incredibly valuable and talented.

 

[Lilbaz]

As I said, the 'greatest footballer' debate is generally centred on goal scorers.

The whole 'but has he ever won a World Cup' debate is redundant now, in my opinion. The highest quality tournament in the world is the CL these days, and Messi has won that plenty of times.

Obviously it's all subjective but I'd happily call Zidane one of the greats of the game. He'll just never be in the 'greatest ever' debates because he can't compete with the goals scored by the big four.

Imagine if you were discussing the greatest Spurs player of all time. Greaves would be up there immediately as a remarkable goal scorer (possibly followed by Lineker), but you also have the likes of Mackay, Hoddle, Gazza, Dozzell, and King - not goal scorers but still incredibly valuable and talented.

You forgot jennings

 

[Gbspurs]

You forgot jennings

And Nethercott........guys..........guys?

 

[Misfit]

Fuck me. Goal scorers will be the all-time greats. And I can't say that's wrong tbh. Goal are the ultimate objective of this game after all. Zidane, however, is in the highest echelon of players in terms of technique and success with different clubs and national team etc . Up there with the Cruyffs et al. No doubt about it. Zero arguments puhlease.

When it gets to the top 3 or 4 all time though, the very best goal scorers, regardless of grace, style or anything else, will always push themselves to the front of the convo. And I think that's right. You could have a player with all the style and elegance of a rohypnoled-up Godzilla out there but if he banged in 30 goals year in and year out for the best part of 20 seasons, his name would be in the hat. Over a Baldini or Beckenbauer etc.

And I see what you did there @Spurger King but fuck off having Gazza in that list over the rolls Royce of a full back that was Justin Edinburgh. They had to name him after an entire city FFS. That's how good he was! And not Croydon either. A full tilt capital city.

 

[nailsy]

The transfer policy at United is just bazaar. Why did they pay more for Fellaini than his buy out clause? Why did they pull out of buying a proven player in Pedro and then buy Martial? The DDG saga is strange as well. Why say that they'll only sell him if they get Ramos and then backtrack on the final day? They've really made themselves look small time over the last three or four windows, even if they have added some good players during that time.

 

[TheBlueRooster]

De Gea signs new four year contract.

 

[nailsy]

De Gea signs new four year contract.

WTF is that all about?