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Let's talk about the wage bill

nicdic

Official SC Padre
Admin
May 8, 2005
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In many ways and at many times we've been praised for keeping our wage budget under control, but increasingly there's pressure mounting on all sides about the size of our wage budget, and player salaries compared to those of our rivals.

I'm not sure it's an even split, but there's definitely very clearly two schools of thought on the subject across Spurs fans. Most, I think, are clear that the solution is we need to increase the wage bill, a lot, and quickly, like now. Others, though far less, seem relatively content that the wage bill is what it is, and that actually it's a sensible position to keep the wage bill inline with our turnover.

Generally I think I'd find myself in the latter camp, but there's most definitely a pinch coming. Walker clearly wanted to be paid the market value, and Rose's comments in the media overnight show another player who is unhappy with the renumeration he's getting at Spurs. At the same time, Dembele is quoted yesterday speaking about Kane as a player not motivated by money deals, but a feeling. I don't think all of our players are in that first camp, a good number will be with Kane, though maybe this is just wishful thinking.

Levy and Pochettino have spoken many times about how we can't compete in the same way as the 5 richer clubs than us in the league, and we have to find other ways to grow and compete. The plan generally has been to buy young, talented players with high potential and grow. This is a great model in principle, but we're seeing an issue with it now, where some of those players are now the best in their positions in the league, are being monitored by other clubs and could easily double, treble, quadruple their wages.

So what do we do? Where do we go from here? Even if we can up the wages, can we do it enough to remove the problem? I don't really know what the solution is. But might be useful to have a place to specifically address it.
 

nicdic

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May 8, 2005
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We either increase the wage bill or lose our best players and slide down the table. Current model is unsustainable.
If it was that simple, we'd just do it right?

All that's been said by Levy, Poch, etc. implies that there are real constraints to just paying everyone more.
 

WalkerboyUK

Well-Known Member
Jun 8, 2009
21,658
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Just hope no-one comes on and posts about "doing a Leeds/Blackburn" as we are so far removed from that scenario.

We have shown as a club that we can consistently qualify for European competition.
Granted, the Europa may not generate as much TV cash as CL, but it does bring in more revenue.

We already have a new stadium under construction, guaranteeing an extra 25,000 per match.

We must be absolutely raking in money right now, even with the stadium build. In my opinion we are capable of paying some of our players more cash. I would rather we spent the Walker money on wages for the likes of Kane, Hugo, Toby etc than bring in a player with no PL experience at RB.
 

Johnny J

Not the Kiwi you need but the one you deserve
Aug 18, 2012
18,117
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It's a balancing act. In the book "Why England Lose" the authors presented convincing statistics that showed that the final Premier League positions can be determined, since inception, overwhelmingly according to wage bill. They concluded that wages are, by far (like 80%+) the largest explanatory factor when it comes to where a club has finished.

I have no idea whether or not higher wages are sustainable for us. I suspect noone knows in the long term, as so much depends on whether or not the football TV bubble ever bursts.

What i don't think is in doubt, however, is that we have a limited window in which to win something with our current, exceptional first 11. It is certain that, if we do not pay wages commensurate with our league standing, and win something, our top players will move on, just as Modric and Bale did.

It's up to Levy and the powers that be to decide how badly we want to exploit this window of opportunity.

Worth pointing out, though, that even if we increase wages, we'll never pay what the mega-clubs do, so we are more reliant than those clubs on giving players other reasons to join/stay.
 
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Dougal

Staff
Jun 4, 2004
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We increase the wage bill and everyone is happy. Until next year where they want another increase. Fuck 'em. I'll be here whether we are challenging for the league or fighting off relegation and I will not have my club held to ransom. People might not Levy but they wouldn't like to have a club in financial trouble either. You don't have to wander far from the top table to find clubs who overstretched and fell flat on their faces. The big money at the richest clubs has warped the game. You cannot stretch your club out of shape to fit this. We are lucky to be supporting a club at this end of the spectrum but enough is enough.
 

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2012
38,247
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The reality is that no-one knows the answer, no-one has any idea what we can or can't afford, what we're paying our players, if the players' wages are heavily laced with bonuses or not, how much the stadium will end up costing etc therefore it's very hard have an opinion on a situation and scenario you don't know anything about. The proof will be in the pudding if/when our players start to get fed up and how we react as a club, we've heard players who have gone on record saying that he's not paid enough then again we've heard players saying that they are happy at Spurs and by all accounts they understand the situation.

Where do we go from here? Honestly have no fucking idea :D
 

TottenhamMattSpur

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
10,925
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It's like fat people.

Either you're fat and happy or fat and work hard to not be fat.
But don't moan about being fat, do fuck all about it and stay fat/get fatter.
 

Japhet

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2010
19,232
57,385
We either increase the wage bill or lose our best players and slide down the table. Current model is unsustainable.


I don't think it's inevitable that we would 'slide down the table', just as I don't think it's inevitable that spending like water makes you successful. Chelsea have proved that forking out hand over fist can create huge problems the season before last. Culture within the club is essential and that is what Poch has instilled. Man City have been an absolute catstrophe when viewed in relation to their spending - a total joke club in fact. Unfortunately the players live in a bubble so far removed from our lives that they act as if they can't afford beans on their toast if they don't bag 100k per week. I'm so proud of what we've achieved in an organic and sustainable way that I would be gutted if we started buckling to the will of prima donnas who see greener grass everywhere, even though they are living in clover.
 

ostrov

Well-Known Member
Jan 8, 2006
1,447
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Rose has been out injured for 6-7 month. Can there be an issue with personal performance related bonuses not being paid during that time? I heard Levy pays good bonuses and it makes salaries closer to other clubs.
 

thebenjamin

Well-Known Member
Jul 1, 2008
12,164
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If it was that simple, we'd just do it right?

All that's been said by Levy, Poch, etc. implies that there are real constraints to just paying everyone more.

Well it is that simple. Either do it or don't. Build on what we have or lose it.

Liverpool's turnover isn't that much more than ours but their wage bill is £120m per season higher than ours. We have the lowest wages to turnover in the league, so there's clearly plenty of room for manoeuvre.

I suspect DL will be putting the club on the market as soon as the stadium's built so I don't think he really cares that much about anything else.
 

joelstinton14

Well-Known Member
Aug 23, 2011
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Just hope no-one comes on and posts about "doing a Leeds/Blackburn" as we are so far removed from that scenario.

t RB.

It may not apply to us at the moment (it may well do though), but aren't clubs below us effectively doing what Leeds and Blackburn did? They're spending money (TV) which may not always be a guarantee. They're taking the bet that they spend it now and they will get an instant return.

Personally, i wouldn't trust TV money being a guarantee source of income. In Five years time the situation may be different (may not be either) in that more and more are leaving Sky or BT and streaming games. What happens when Sky decides it is not worth it or HAS to offer what they offer at significantly reduced prices? Which means less TV money. At the same time each team as suddenly got 11 players earning over 100-150 k which they can't quite afford. Clubs are relying on an external factor that is effectively out of their control.

Levy has publicly said that these clubs cannot afford what they are doing. He may be bluffing, or trying to strengthen his own position and his own ways of doing things, but no one really came out and disagreed with what he was saying a couple of weeks back in America. The Neymar Transfer may have glossed over the finer points of Levy's argument but it certainly supported it.

Saying that Levy may have to compromise to keep players, fans, and most importantly our gaffer happy, but he shouldn't go overboard.
 

Gassin's finest

C'est diabolique
May 12, 2010
37,341
87,796
We increase the wage bill and everyone is happy. Until next year where they want another increase. Fuck 'em. I'll be here whether we are challenging for the league or fighting off relegation and I will not have my club held to ransom. People might not Levy but they wouldn't like to have a club in financial trouble either. You don't have to wander far from the top table to find clubs who overstretched and fell flat on their faces. The big money at the richest clubs has warped the game. You cannot stretch your club out of shape to fit this. We are lucky to be supporting a club at this end of the spectrum but enough is enough.
I don't care if this was intentional or not, but from now on I'm using "Levy" in this manner.

e.g. dude, do you even Levy?
 

Tel Boy

Active Member
Jan 2, 2007
135
181
Everything is out of control with English football and the Premier League, as someone mentioned on the Danny Rose thread I do not believe we are far away from where Italian football was in the early 90's. With streaming availability and a saturation of televised games meaning the subscriptions being shared between providers will the TV companies be so keen to keep pumping billions in for rights?

Clubs like Man City & Chelsea are not sustainable business models based on what they spend / generate. The fact is they have distorted the market for both transfers and wages, it means other teams have to try and compete. Clubs like Man Utd and Liverpool (and ourselves, Arsenal and Everton to a certain extent) are potentially large enough with current TV money / sponsorship to try and compete. However when the TV money and sponsorship starts to dry up what happens to the large contracts then?

It is a difficult decision regarding wages, do you go all out and pay the money to try and win something knowing its not sustainable or try and safeguard the future of the club. I think I am in the second camp.

Sooner or later (especially after thr Neymar deal) someone needs to get on top of these so called Financial Fair Play rules.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
33,985
81,902
People keep saying we should put money into our existing players wages. How exactly are we to do this?

If we gave our 10 best performers a £10k a week pay rise we'd be paying out an extra £5.2m on wages a year.

Considering the likes of Utd, City and Chelsea are paying players well over double our current players this wouldn't be enough to keep players should money be their determining motivator anyway.

I don't think there is a short-term option. If we pay the same wages as our rivals then we will be operating well over budget.

I think we just carry on as we are. We are doing well and competing where it matters, on the pitch.

Continue to do that and in time our finances will improve further and we'll competing in other areas too.
 
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dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
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You know what, when the bubble does burst who's in the strongest position then?

That is interesting. I wonder if there truly is a bubble.

The TV deals are reportedly on the way down after competition between BT and Sky. If the TV bubble bursts then we'll be in a very strong position.
 
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