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Levy, ENIC and DC

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dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
33,988
81,938
I am not convinced the stadium is the reason we didn’t buy.

We have a high quality squad and improving it involves buying players the elite clubs want.

There is a reason many of our purchases of players in their prime don’t work out, it is because they have less quality than those our rivals are buying.

So the plan of buying younger players and developing makes a lot of sense.

We currently have competition for every position except up front. Son has played well there when called upon.

So I am not worried about no signings. We have the highest quality squad in my lifetime.

This is an opportunity for players to step up knowing we are not going to simply replace them at the first opportunity.
 

LeParisien

Wrong about everything
Mar 5, 2018
3,212
8,169
I'm not upset that we didn't sign anybody for signing somebody sake. I'm annoyed because it is abundantly clear that Poch wanted backing in the market and that hasn't happened. Of course he is going to toe the company line and make out he's happy, but without doubt he is going to be justifiably disappointed.
What evidence would you need to change your mind that this is the case ?

It seems to me to be that no evidence would. You have decided how you feel about this and are projecting this onto Poch.
 

LeParisien

Wrong about everything
Mar 5, 2018
3,212
8,169
Based on our finances, we don't belong where we are.
The reason we are? Poch and Kane.

Take those two away and it's like pulling the wrong bricks out i a game of Jenga.

The problem is, if we lose them, Levy is too much of a pussy to put it right.
Chelsea lose their A list keeper and don't even flinch at £70m to replace him.
When they need a new manager, they pay whatever it takes to get the one they want, not the ones with the cheapest release clauses or free agents.
United finish outside the top 4 they get a new manager, spend £200m on players and get back up there.

If we lose Poch and any 2 or 3 of our main 11, we're fucked. Even if we get a shit ton of money, we're fucked.

And I now fully expect United to take Poch by next season.
Would that be Chelsea whose revenue is over £50m higher than ours every season?

Would that be Man Utd whose revenue is over £250m higher than ours every season?

Easy to wave your dick about when you earn so much ..
 

Metalhead

But that's a debate for another thread.....
Nov 24, 2013
25,358
38,299
In an ideal world, if Poch could get an experienced player in the right position then he would, I'm sure, be interested in signing him. The problem is obviously that we are now in the market for the elite players but taking into account transfer fees, wages and the inevitable agents fees then we aren't yet in a position to do it. If the opportunity arose to get in a special player at a cost that wouldn't be too prohibitive then one would hope that Levy would be prepared to take that step, especially as there are presumably ways of recouping some of the outlay through shirt sales and other merchandise.

I am happy that the club is so encouraging of youth players and that we have a 'project' in place unlike other clubs that just seem to adopt a scattergun approach to recruiting players or managers. I sometimes feel though that you can't beat having an experienced player with a history of winning trophies (perhaps like an Edgar Davids) to guide the younger ones and feel like maybe that has been something that we have been missing (don't know if anyone agrees).
 

LeParisien

Wrong about everything
Mar 5, 2018
3,212
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I don't totally disagree with many of the points you have made, but I have to say I do not buy the stadium excuse whatsoever. It may be true that the end cost wound up being something like 250% of what had been planned for initially, but it's also true that a huge amount of that cost is going toward the ancillary developments and not strictly the stadium itself. Those projects should be seen as investments completely separate from the rest of the club's budget. The notion that we've deprived ourselves of a desperately needed central midfielder so that the club can finance a massive profit-seeking venture into selling flats and hotel rooms is an absolute slap in the face to the supporters.

Beyond just that issue is the fact that while the stadium project has overrun its budget, so too have the club's revenues absolutely exploded beyond anyone's wildest imagination. There's no fucking way that ENIC planned for the astounding increase in TV revenue that the entire Premier League has enjoyed over the past four years or so when they started planning out the stadium all those years ago. Our revenue roughly doubled between 2016 and 2017 alone! Given that the club has been absolutely insistent all along that the stadium would not impact transfer spending, the cost overruns for the stadium cannot be considered sufficient justification for this window when you consider that we've had an attendant unexpected explosion in the club's turnover.

I also don't buy this utterly ridiculous notion (which I realize has not been advanced by you but has been by many others) that there wasn't a single central midfielder on the face of the planet that was available within our budget that would have improved us. I'd have happily taken Seri or Torreira, both of whom went to London clubs on manageable wages for fees around 25m. I'd have also happily taken Fabian Ruiz who went to Napoli as their Jorginho replacement for a totally reasonable release clause. All of those players, and I'm sure many others, would have given us some desperately needed depth for an ageing, injury prone, and rapidly declining Dembele and Winks (who I rate but whose own fitness we must admit is unreliable). The deals were there to be done, we just fucked it up.

The one positive I take away from the window is that, as you noted, we seem to finally have reached a point where we are willing to withstand the urge to make panic signings or resort to Plan D options when our first choice targets fall through. Bringing in dross that the manager doesn't want and that wind up rotting on the bench and becoming unsalable assets has been a massive drag on the club, and we're far better off giving the likes of Onomah, CCV, Skipp, and (touch wood) Edwards a shot instead. The next six months are a massive opportunity for those players, and we'll be laughing if one or two of them manage to break through the way Winks looked set to before his injury travails.
You make a lot of points. I will address some below.

- The stadiums costs have not been anything like 250% of initial costs.

- Afaik only the stadium, associated infrastructure projects such as transport, and other necessary projects for the community have begun. The hotel and flats have not begun so your concerns about their costs are ill founded.

They will eventually generate a huge amount of money for the club. 579 flats selling at a modest average of £300 000 is a revenue of £179m. Less the construction costs and you have money to buy a very good player.

- I’ve covered TV revenue and general finances before. See here:

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/index.php?threads/anthony-martial.132636/page-141#post-5987632

And on the effect of tv money on spending:

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/index.php?threads/anthony-martial.132636/page-141#post-5987632

- I agree we probably should have spend on a CM but actual paid professionals who most of us trust, have decided not to buy. Let’s see how he season develops before losing our minds...
 

coys200

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2017
8,436
17,403
The other issue with no signings this window is the cumulative effect. Most would accepted we needed 2 minimum and possibly a grealish type which I’d have seen as a bonus young signing. Problem is now next summer instead of being maybe 3 it will be 5 or 6 unless winks, Foyth, KWP,Ccv, Onomah step up. By next summer we will have to replace possibly both alderweireld and vertonghen also rose, dembele, Llorente. Those will be minimal replacements that’s 5. That’s before you start looking at anyone that might underperform this season which possibly includes Aurier, wanyama, sissoko,Lamela, moura.
 

Spurrific

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2011
13,501
57,356
What evidence would you need to change your mind that this is the case ?

It seems to me to be that no evidence would. You have decided how you feel about this and are projecting this onto Poch.

There are loads of articles around that show Poch eager to do business early, but I really cba to trawl through and find them. I’m not bothered anymore, I’m just looking forward to today.
 

LeParisien

Wrong about everything
Mar 5, 2018
3,212
8,169
There are loads of articles around that show Poch eager to do business early, but I really cba to trawl through and find them. I’m not bothered anymore, I’m just looking forward to today.
Avoided the question. You told me what evidence there might be FOR your point of view. I asked for what evidence would make you change your mind.

Anyway - you’re right COYS
 

Spurrific

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2011
13,501
57,356
Avoided the question. You told me what evidence there might be FOR your point of view. I asked for what evidence would make you change your mind.

Anyway - you’re right COYS

No evidence would contradict Poch’s actual words from the start of the window. He said he was hoping we’d be proactive in the market - sell unwanted players quickly and then bring players in that would help the squad. None of that happened.

I believe him when he says he is happy with the squad - but blaming Brexit is obviously bollocks. Levy is his boss and pays him handsomely, he’s not going to come out and slag him off as a fan would.
 

cliff jones

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
4,059
6,516
there's no evidence to suggest whether Levy would or wouldn't spend the money even after the stadium has been paid off- those suggesting he will are clutching just as much as those like me who think he won't
 

Sandwich Technician

Now...Who's for lasagne?
Aug 12, 2013
151
271
As dissapointed as we mostly were with our inaction during the transfer window, hearing Crystal Palace's Chairman Steve Parish talk of his admiration of what DL has done in his tenure and absolute envy when shown round the new stadium brings some perspective of how good a job Levy is doing on an uneven playing field.


 

shelfboy68

Well-Known Member
Jun 14, 2008
14,566
19,651
As dissapointed as we mostly were with our inaction during the transfer window, hearing Crystal Palace's Chairman Steve Parish talk of his admiration of what DL has done in his tenure and absolute envy when shown round the new stadium brings some perspective of how good a job Levy is doing on an uneven playing field.



Thank you that was good viewing Daniel.
 

malin

Well-Known Member
May 25, 2005
163
572
I get your gist but it was disgraceful the ground had been left in such a state for so many years once money started to come back into the game

I'd much rather we'd have redeveloped WHL and have an amazing team on the pitch rather that an amazing stadium and a decent team potentially in a couple of years

We've got lucky with Poch and even luckier with Kane, they needed backing

It seems unreasonable to hold Levy / Enic accountable for any perceived negatives yet give them no credit for the positives, instead attributing them to ‘luck’.
 

thfc1973

Active Member
Apr 29, 2015
565
1,192
I've lost all faith in the judgements of Levy and Poch the moment they decided it would be "brave" to have the exact same team this season again as the last - that was something like 20+points behind Man City...? Even though they still went and spent again this summer to strengthen.... Smh. Where's the logic in that? Oh sure, of course we're going to keep up with them and compete having not spent a single penny and were miles behind them last season..

Honestly, I really don't care about either of them after they consciously made that decision. I'm done with them. Whatever happens we'll deserve it as far as I'm concerned. And so will they.
 

philip

Well-Known Member
Jan 4, 2009
1,347
2,490
I've lost all faith in the judgements of Levy and Poch the moment they decided it would be "brave" to have the exact same team this season again as the last - that was something like 20+points behind Man City...? Even though they still went and spent again this summer to strengthen.... Smh. Where's the logic in that? Oh sure, of course we're going to keep up with them and compete having not spent a single penny and were miles behind them last season..

Honestly, I really don't care about either of them after they consciously made that decision. I'm done with them. Whatever happens we'll deserve it as far as I'm concerned. And so will they.
Do you honestly believe we can challenge Man City for the title?

There's no one in the league who can. Liverpool have spent massively to try but we're in a 4 way fight for positions 2,3 & 4.

Do we have enough for top 4? Probably. Could we do with another 2-3 players. Probably.
Is it a disaster that we haven't signed anyone? No
 

coys200

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2017
8,436
17,403
I’m surprised Poch has become such a “yes” man. In the interview with bianca Westwood he said “be brave” meant keep your best players and build the stadium. We all know that’s not what he meant. Which makes the contract signing and his calmness now slightly odd. Maybe he’s happy to pocket the £8.5m and have no major pressure on him. If we did come 6th would be get sacked, of course not. The whole summer narrative is very very odd and doesn’t add up. Still convinced he’s been told a buy out will happen in next 2 years which is why he appears so calm.
 

thefierycamel

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2014
2,015
5,128
The biggest issue after this is next summer. A poor season due to a multitude of issues and Jan, Toby, Dembele, Eriksen, etc. all heading towards or at the end of their contracts. Poch unhappy due to not being backed. We'll be in deep shit.
 
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