Levy, ENIC and DC

[mattdefoe]

So much for the only place in London to watch champions league football this season . Thanks levy

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

I was talking about our league position progression so I don't think comparing to Wenger's cup wins is relevant. And of course nobody should stay indefinitely - that's an absurd argument to make.

Let's look at Wenger for a second though. He made Arsenal one of the greatest clubs in Europe and set that incredible unbeaten run which may never be matched. But they spent about 10 seasons in the top 2, then 10 seasons in the top 4, and most recently 2 seasons outside of the top 4 (or roughly those numbers). That's a decline in league performance which was not tolerated by their fans despite the recent FA cup victories.

And I think most importantly of all it wasn't a one season dip... it was a steady decline over the course of about 15 years. There will have been highs and lows in there, but the trend was most definitely downwards.

The reason I am focusing more on league position rather than silverware is that traditionally silverware is won by the clubs finishing high in the league. That league performance brings money and that translates to better playing/coaching staff and better facilities. The success feeds itself, even if it takes a while to come to fruition.

So I think that the idea of removing a man largely responsible for our upward trend over the past 15 years because you are worried about what he might do in the future is a touch naive. The doom mongers are out every season saying that Levy is holding us back, or that now is the time to spend loads of money, but time and again the club has progressed under Levy's stewardship.

The fact is that we don't know what the end of the season looks like yet. We might finish second and win the FA cup. We might finish 6th and lose every knockout game we play. With that in mind, I don't think it's a particularly logical point of view to want to remove the chairman who has overseen such an upward curve in the club's development over the past 15 years.

It seems to me that some people simply don't like the bloke and tend to over-inflate the negatives in order to justify wanting him removed. It's perhaps a bit like Steve Jobs being sacked by Apple - by all accounts he was a total pain in the arse to deal with and often described as not understanding the modern marketplace, but just look at the fortunes of the company with and without him.

Mate I always have a huge respect for your views, and this post is as well-considered as ever, but I can't help but feel a little saddened and disappointed when, - rather than a trophy-winning football team - supporters champion the new stadium as Levy's legacy. It seems that we've become so emasculated as a fan-base that we now value property over silverware; bricks and mortar over titles and cups. We're always hearing, "we may not have won any titles but look at our training facilities, look at our stadium!".
I'd just like for once to see Levy prioritise investment in the football team!
You're absolutely right that we should be thinking of the bigger picture and long-term security for the next 50 years, but selfishly as a fan I'm less interested in the future and more concerned with the here and now. Wasn't it Maynard-Keynes that said "in the long-term we're all dead"? I totally agree that "in the last 3 years we should've won a cup or 2"; this squad is so close, mate! And perhaps with a little less focus on cheese rooms and correspondingly more investment in those one or two game-changing players instead of multiple cheap low-risk grabs, I feel we would've won a pot or two. Ah mate, I know it's all "ifs and buts" but like I said we're so tantalisingly close, which again is why this window was such a resounding disappointment. My biggest fear is that our stadium build replicates Arsenal's model, and we find ourselves consistently hamstrung in the transfer market for years to come, or worse still, have to sell our best players to balance the books. Unfortunately, I don't think ENIC would hesitate for a second to do just that.

These 2 posts are amazing. 2 opposing views of Levy/ENIC, without unnecessary aggression or abuse, just absolute respect for eachothers differing opinion.

 

[Lilbaz]

So much for the only place in London to watch champions league football this season . Thanks levy

Don't think we'll get to the knockout stages then?

 

[[email protected]]

Yes and we know why. We are building a fuck off new stadium. Which along with the training ground we have spent over £500m on in the last ten years.

But mate, we've been assured that "building a fuck off new stadium" wouldn't impact our transfer budget. Remember? You've seen the statement. Or would you like me to post it again for you? So if, as you've unwittingly infered, the Club has lied to us, doesn't that prove conclusively that ENIC are far more interested in developing a valuable piece of real estate than building a title-winning football team?
Their end-goal is the stadium mate.
The investment in the football squad is subordinate to that. It's probably for that reason that no expense has been spared when it comes to the new WHL, but every expense is spared when it comes to the playing squad: wages that until recently were for the most part below market rate, last minute end-of-window opportunist grabs, cheap low-risk punts that Levy could then palm off on mid table clubs, a conspicuous absence of primary targets just cheaper consolidation choices, N'gie, Stambouli, Fazio, Yedlin etc., culminating in this summer's débâcle where we saw zero investment in the squad.
It certainly doesn't leave me brimming with optimism for future recruitiment. Are you even remotely confident we'll do business in January, even if the squad is struggling with fatigue? But hey, we're an elite professional sports team with excellent training facilities (if only that was ground-breakingly unique!), and we've got a Players' Lodge, and a micro-brewery! Wouldn't you rather have a trophy cabinet, with you know, trophies in it, mate?

 

[yankspurs]

But mate, we've been assured that "building a fuck off new stadium" wouldn't impact our transfer budget. Remember? You've seen the statement. Or would you like me to post it again for you? So if, as you've unwittingly infered, the Club has lied to us, doesn't that prove conclusively that ENIC are far more interested in developing a valuable piece of real estate than building a title-winning football team?
Their end-goal is the stadium mate.
The investment in the football squad is subordinate to that. It's probably for that reason that no expense has been spared when it comes to the new WHL, but every expense is spared when it comes to the playing squad: wages that until recently were for the most part below market rate, last minute end-of-window opportunist grabs, cheap low-risk punts that Levy could then palm off on mid table clubs, a conspicuous absence of primary targets just cheaper consolidation choices, N'gie, Stambouli, Fazio, Yedlin etc., culminating in this summer's débâcle where we saw zero investment in the squad.
It certainly doesn't leave me brimming with optimism for future recruitiment. Are you even remotely confident we'll do business in January, even if the squad is struggling with fatigue? But hey, we're an elite professional sports team with excellent training facilities (if only that was ground-breakingly unique!), and we've got a Players' Lodge, and a micro-brewery! Wouldn't you rather have a trophy cabinet, with you know, trophies in it, mate?

Once the stadium is finished, they will sell up.

 

[Lilbaz]

But mate, we've been assured that "building a fuck off new stadium" wouldn't impact our transfer budget. Remember? You've seen the statement. Or would you like me to post it again for you? So if, as you've unwittingly infered, the Club has lied to us, doesn't that prove conclusively that ENIC are far more interested in developing a valuable piece of real estate than building a title-winning football team?
Their end-goal is the stadium mate.
The investment in the football squad is subordinate to that. It's probably for that reason that no expense has been spared when it comes to the new WHL, but every expense is spared when it comes to the playing squad: wages that until recently were for the most part below market rate, last minute end-of-window opportunist grabs, cheap low-risk punts that Levy could then palm off on mid table clubs, a conspicuous absence of primary targets just cheaper consolidation choices, N'gie, Stambouli, Fazio, Yedlin etc., culminating in this summer's débâcle where we saw zero investment in the squad.
It certainly doesn't leave me brimming with optimism for future recruitiment. Are you even remotely confident we'll do business in January, even if the squad is struggling with fatigue? But hey, we're an elite professional sports team with excellent training facilities (if only that was ground-breakingly unique!), and we've got a Players' Lodge, and a micro-brewery! Wouldn't you rather have a trophy cabinet, with you know, trophies in it, mate?

The transfer budget has been zero for the last 8 years. It will probably be zero for the next few years, it is why i would like new owners or investment to pay for the stadium so that the money we make can be invested in the team.

 

[Saoirse]

Once the stadium is finished, they will sell up.

Very much inclined to agree. They haven't been this bad to fans at any previous stage.

 

[am_yisrael_chai]

Once the stadium is finished, they will sell up.

100%, they are in fact already touting the club for sale. The stadium was their end game not the start of making Spurs a force. Just amazing how few of our fan base can see this and still seem to want to cling to the belief that once the stadium is on stream all of a sudden money will start to flow into the team.

 

[[email protected]]

These 2 posts are amazing. 2 opposing views of Levy/ENIC, without unnecessary aggression or abuse, just absolute respect for eachothers differing opinion.

Ah it makes a welcome change, Coops, after all the antagonism we witnessed from both "sides" during the transfer window. Hope you're really well, mate! Your wit and humour were much missed my friend.

 

[Hercules]

100%, they are in fact already touting the club for sale. The stadium was their end game not the start of making Spurs a force. Just amazing how few of our fan base can see this and still seem to want to cling to the belief that once the stadium is on stream all of a sudden money will start to flow into the team.

You are so right...

 

[Saoirse]

100%, they are in fact already touting the club for sale. The stadium was their end game not the start of making Spurs a force. Just amazing how few of our fan base can see this and still seem to want to cling to the belief that once the stadium is on stream all of a sudden money will start to flow into the team.

That's not a foolish belief. It will substantially increase our revenues near permanently. I expect that will lead to more spending on the squad even if it's not under Levy.

 

[[email protected]]

The transfer budget has been zero for the last 8 years. It will probably be zero for the next few years, it is why i would like new owners or investment to pay for the stadium so that the money we make can be invested in the team.

Couldn't agree more with you, Lilbaz!

 

[am_yisrael_chai]

You are so right...

I know mate, on this facet of the club as I’m as ITK as you

 

[Lilbaz]

100%, they are in fact already touting the club for sale. The stadium was their end game not the start of making Spurs a force. Just amazing how few of our fan base can see this and still seem to want to cling to the belief that once the stadium is on stream all of a sudden money will start to flow into the team.

The club has been for sale since day one. Levy said it was always for sale.

 

[am_yisrael_chai]

That's not a foolish belief. It will substantially increase our revenues near permanently. I expect that will lead to more spending on the squad even if it's not under Levy.

Not when you factor in the price ENIC have put on the club and then work out what the new purchaser will need to do earn a return / finance the investment. Put another way they’ve used the fan base to give them the cash flow to build capital assets and then intend to monetise those assets solely for their benefit. Perversely the only good scenario is ENIC staying as owners and allowing the free cash flow to be invested in the team, don’t see that as likely though. As I said a few pages ago they are playing us all for mugs.

 

[am_yisrael_chai]

The club has been for sale since day one. Levy said it was always for sale.

They’ve always quoted an above market price to deter purchasers so they could reap the windfall from the stadium.

 

[Lilbaz]

Not when you factor in the price ENIC have put on the club and then work out what the new purchaser will need to do earn a return / finance the investment. Put another way they’ve used the fan base to give them the cash flow to build capital assets and then intend to monetise those assets solely for their benefit. Perversely the only good scenario is ENIC staying as owners and allowing the free cash flow to be invested in the team, don’t see that as likely though. As I said a few pages ago they are playing us all for mugs.

They are an investment company, that's what investment companies do.

 

[Saoirse]

Not when you factor in the price ENIC have put on the club and then work out what the new purchaser will need to do earn a return / finance the investment. Put another way they’ve used the fan base to give them the cash flow to build capital assets and then intend to monetise those assets solely for their benefit. Perversely the only good scenario is ENIC staying as owners and allowing the free cash flow to be invested in the team, don’t see that as likely though. As I said a few pages ago they are playing us all for mugs.

That's assuming the new owner intends to recoup their investment through profit/dividends. That's somewhere between highly risky and impossible in football - you're much more likely to damage the teams success and lose value. More likely the aim would be to not have to dip into their own pocket but reinvest the clubs income, turn us into a truly top side, reap the corporate/commercial/UEFA revenue, and then sell on at an increased value.

 

[am_yisrael_chai]

They are an investment company, that's what investment companies do.

No problem with that I’m a shareholder but I think if they were honest about that - they clearly aren’t if you read the latest PR from Donna - the fans would feel very differently towards our owners.

 

[ToDarrenIsToDo]

100%, they are in fact already touting the club for sale. The stadium was their end game not the start of making Spurs a force. Just amazing how few of our fan base can see this and still seem to want to cling to the belief that once the stadium is on stream all of a sudden money will start to flow into the team.

Regardless of it being their end game or not, to get the build dome whilst gaining top 3 for three seasons in a row is a great achievement. I'm bitterly disappointed by things that have happened over the past couple of weeks with the stadium delay after reeling fans into spending their money genuinely acting as the biggest red flag so far but like it or not, ENIC building this home &a investing in the training ground whilst staying as a top 3 club is a huge achievement where others would have struggled.

I've also just seen that the club tried getting fans to buy their cup games with an email stating they get to secure their cup tickets for the first season back at our new home 5 days ago. That is a shocking piece of news coming out seeing a single the club surely were aware this news was in the pipeline when they released such marketing to its fans. Very alarming but they've still balanced all they have to this moment extremely well