Levy plans to stay long term but must consider takeover bids

[vegassd]

Is there an for straw icon.
For a club of club of Tottenham size. One trophy is 18 years is failure and your comparing Tottenham with Portsmouth, Birmingham, Wigan.

This is exactly my point - it's the people who say that a lack of trophies is a failure are the ones who are comparing us to those teams. If your only metric for measuring success is trophies then you are saying that Tottenham are equally as successful as Portsmouth over the past 20 years.

In order to win a trophy you need a certain amount of luck. That's not to say that skill and bottle aren't part of it - but I think it would be hard to make a case that in their years Portsmouth and Wigan were the best teams in the country. They needed some luck to win those trophies, and despite winning those trophies they have gone on to be relegated from the top tier. So using the trophy count as your measure of success feels wrong to me.

Incidentally, if 1 trophy in 18 years is failure for a club "our size", what number of trophies would represent success?
Does it matter if they are all league cups?
Would it matter who the opponents were that we played in the knockout competitions we won?
Would it be better to have trophies than PL football?
Would it be better to have trophies than European football?
Would it be better to have trophies than a new stadium?

I would love to be winning stuff year in, year out, but I much prefer watching us playing CL opponents throughout the year and feeling that we are good enough to win against them.

 

[Lilbaz]

Is there an for straw icon.
For a club of club of Tottenham size. One trophy is 18 years is failure and your comparing Tottenham with Portsmouth, Birmingham, Wigan.

I'm not comparing us with anyone. Everyone of us would prefer more trophies.

 

[Mattspur]

We lost to Portsmouth one year.
We also lost to Chelsea and United in the last two years despite IMO, being the better team.

Once or twice losers is bad luck.
11 times is a bloody hex.

League table says differently.

 

[mkkid]

This is exactly my point - it's the people who say that a lack of trophies is a failure are the ones who are comparing us to those teams. If your only metric for measuring success is trophies then you are saying that Tottenham are equally as successful as Portsmouth over the past 20 years.

In order to win a trophy you need a certain amount of luck. That's not to say that skill and bottle aren't part of it - but I think it would be hard to make a case that in their years Portsmouth and Wigan were the best teams in the country. They needed some luck to win those trophies, and despite winning those trophies they have gone on to be relegated from the top tier. So using the trophy count as your measure of success feels wrong to me.

Incidentally, if 1 trophy in 18 years is failure for a club "our size", what number of trophies would represent success?
Does it matter if they are all league cups?
Would it matter who the opponents were that we played in the knockout competitions we won?
Would it be better to have trophies than PL football?
Would it be better to have trophies than European football?
Would it be better to have trophies than a new stadium?

I would love to be winning stuff year in, year out, but I much prefer watching us playing CL opponents throughout the year and feeling that we are good enough to win against them.

we should be winning a trophy every five years.
Spurs have won a trophy every decade since the 50s
I don't care if its Norwich or Chelsea
I don't care about the CL, because we are never going to win it and there isn't a spurs beat Real Madrid trophy.
Trophies or premier league football, it would depend what the trophy, Personally Tottenham are one of the biggest club in the country and based in the capital, we shouldn`t worry about relegation.
Id prefer a league cup over champions league football, we been in 3 years and it hasn't made a difference to ENIC spending.
I will take trophies over a training ground and a shiny new stadium.

 

[vegassd]

we should be winning a trophy every five years.
Spurs have won a trophy every decade since the 50s
I don't care if its Norwich or Chelsea
I don't care about the CL, because we are never going to win it and there isn't a spurs beat Real Madrid trophy.
Trophies or premier league football, it would depend what the trophy, Personally Tottenham are one of the biggest club in the country and based in the capital, we shouldn`t worry about relegation.
Id prefer a league cup over champions league football, we been in 3 years and it hasn't made a difference to ENIC spending.
I will take trophies over a training ground and a shiny new stadium.

That certainly shines a light on the motivation behind some of your posts. I guess we are from different generations and just have an opposite outlook on football... which is totally fine.

My formative Spurs years were during the 90s when relegation was a genuine concern each year! You would hope for a cup run or to beat Arsenal at some point during the season but that was basically it. I would imagine that Villa and Newcastle thought they were too big to be relegated.

I can't agree with the idea of a trophy every five years though, particularly in relation to everything else you said. One every five years is unrealistic for everybody apart from the top few clubs, and if we want to be one of those top few clubs then things like a big stadium and CL football are essential I would say. We could rely on luck each year but I don't think that would achieve one in five.

It's a shame you don't think we will ever win the CL, and more of a shame that you don't care about it. I think those games are incredible to watch - so much hype and the tension of being a 2-leg knockout format is gripping in my opinion. Far better than watching us play lower league opposition in domestic cups. Just different opinions I suppose.

Out of interest, how would you rate West Ham's chances of a trophy this season? Do they stand a chance at all?

I would liken West Ham now to the scenario Spurs were in during the 90-00s, just with a bigger stadium! A club with potential, a very demanding fan base, but seemingly not able to mix it with the big boys. They are probably safe from relegation but it's not nailed on. Their only chance of a trophy is one of the domestic cups, but when you look at the squad strength of the big teams even that seems like a stretch. Beyond relying on luck, how would they go about achieving the one in five ratio?

 

[Lighty64]

Was expecting the negs from others. I've enjoyed reading your posts in this thread.

I 100% agree that Leicester have won more than us this century - that cannot be disputed. But so have Portsmouth, Wigan (lol), Birmingham (lol more!), Swansea, Middlesborough and even Blackburn.

I had to look Boro up, and that sort of demonstrates where I'm coming from with the success stuff. It's written in the history books that Middlesborough won the league cup in 2004, but do many people (outside of Middlesborough) remember that game? Do people sit down in pubs and say that Boro are better than Spurs because they have more recent silverware? I doubt they do. Would Boro fans exchange that league cup victory for a 60k stadium and CL football? My guess would be that many would.

It's actually fairly depressing to look at the recent cup/league winners in this country and see them dominated by the "big 4" then joined by City in more recent years. City are the only team who have made a consistent dent in the big 4 dominance and we've seen the insane amount of money they have had to spend to do it. A depressing state of the game really.

So all the other clubs are basically scrabbling around trying to find a way to win something. Of the 54 trophies on offer since 2000 (three per year) only 8 have been won by the non-powerhouse clubs. 5 of those 8 victories were in the league cup. It's incredibly hard to win stuff in this country so I think it's important to judge success on a range of factors. Otherwise we may as well all pack up and go home!

When you look at the general football landscape it seems a bloody miracle we have done as well as we have done. We haven't troubled the history books of late, but if we do in the next few years it wouldn't feel like a fluke. Here's hoping.

i'd of given you Portsmouth and Wigan with it being the FA Cup, but those teams only managed to win the League Cup once, the same as us, shame we have lost so many semi's and League Cup finals since

 

[Lighty64]

We lost to Portsmouth one year.
We also lost to Chelsea and United in the last two years despite IMO, being the better team.

Once or twice losers is bad luck.
8 times is a bloody hex.

FYP

yep it hurts, but since our in 91, money took hold of the game and being in the wrong spot at the wrong time when all the money started, and then Chelsea and Man C, money make it even harder to compete.

 

[Metalhead]

FYP

yep it hurts, but since our in 91, money took hold of the game and being in the wrong spot at the wrong time when all the money started, and then Chelsea and Man C, money make it even harder to compete.

The irony was that Sugar was at the centre of the whole football revolution in conjunction with Sky.

 

[Lighty64]

That game is about winning, to be an elite manager he needs to stop being the bridesmaid and winning big games. Should of beat Utd, chelsea x2 and Juventus. Three of those games, spurs were leading.

Chelsea x2? if your talking about the League Cup final which we lost 2-0 and the Semi we lost 4-2 (1-0 down, 2-1 down), and how was it Poch's fault that Dembele gave the ball away in a tight spot? or Vorm failed to save, or Juve caught us with 2 quick goals. it's the players that make the errors on the pitch that cost us, and then hope the players he sends on to try and change it work. the only thing I can blame Poch out of all of those was playing Son as a wing back

twice when leading by the way

 

[vegassd]

i'd of given you Portsmouth and Wigan with it being the FA Cup, but those teams only managed to win the League Cup once, the same as us, shame we have lost so many semi's and League Cup finals since

Yep, was just saying that Leicester had won more than us, and the others had also won trophies since that point.

Totally agree with you about the money factor. I don't think there is any such thing as a "cup team" anymore - at least not one that can actually go on and win a cup regularly. The money teams have been so dominant over the past 20 years it's upsetting!

 

[Saoirse]

League table says differently.

Over the two seasons in question we did get the same number of points as Chelsea and 13 more than Man United. We certainly aren't inferior sides to them.

 

[Mattspur]

Over the two seasons in question we did get the same number of points as Chelsea and 13 more than Man United. We certainly aren't inferior sides to them.

When we played Chelsea, they won the league. We came second. When we played United, they were second, and we were 4th.

 

[Saoirse]

When we played Chelsea, they won the league. We came second. When we played United, they were second, and we were 4th.

Over ~30 games though there's a fair portion of luck involved - the better team isn't always higher. Over 76 games there's substantially less. But even if you say that at the time we played both games we were slight underdogs, 60-40 or so, you'd still expect us to have won one of the two.

 

[Led's Zeppelin]

Over ~30 games though there's a fair portion of luck involved - the better team isn't always higher. Over 76 games there's substantially less. But even if you say that at the time we played both games we were slight underdogs, 60-40 or so, you'd still expect us to have won one of the two.

Why?

If we were slight underdogs in both games, you'd expect us to lose both games.

Unless you don't believe we were underdogs, which changes the premise.

 

[Saoirse]

Why?

If we were slight underdogs in both games, you'd expect us to lose both games.

Unless you don't believe we were underdogs, which changes the premise.

Not really. If we played four matches in a row we were slight underdogs in you'd say beforehand that maybe we'd only expect 4-6 points out of those games. If we lost all of them you'd still say that was below expectations, even disastrous. The same applies with cup games - if you play two you're slight underdogs in, the most likely result is to win one and lose won. If you accept we have a 40% chance in each game for instance, that would mean we had a 64% chance of winning at least one of them statistically.

 

[mkkid]

Chelsea x2? if your talking about the League Cup final which we lost 2-0 and the Semi we lost 4-2 (1-0 down, 2-1 down), and how was it Poch's fault that Dembele gave the ball away in a tight spot? or Vorm failed to save, or Juve caught us with 2 quick goals. it's the players that make the errors on the pitch that cost us, and then hope the players he sends on to try and change it work. the only thing I can blame Poch out of all of those was playing Son as a wing back

twice when leading by the way

Elite manager win big games, Poch doesn't yet, How many cup games have we lost at home ( Arsenal, palace, Leverkusen, Dortmund, West ham, Juve, man utd, even the draw against Ghent) or something doesn't go our way.

 

[Saoirse]

Elite manager win big games, Poch doesn't yet, How many cup games have we lost at home ( Arsenal, palace, Leverkusen, Dortmund, West ham, Juve, man utd, even the draw against Ghent) or something doesn't go our way.

I think it's more that he doesn't much care for the domestic cups. Which makes sense - no club these days is going to prioritise them over the top 4, and he is much more secure in his job if we come third than if we come 5th but win a League Cup. It's sad but it's the way things are.

 

[punkisback]

That certainly shines a light on the motivation behind some of your posts. I guess we are from different generations and just have an opposite outlook on football... which is totally fine.

My formative Spurs years were during the 90s when relegation was a genuine concern each year! You would hope for a cup run or to beat Arsenal at some point during the season but that was basically it. I would imagine that Villa and Newcastle thought they were too big to be relegated.

I can't agree with the idea of a trophy every five years though, particularly in relation to everything else you said. One every five years is unrealistic for everybody apart from the top few clubs, and if we want to be one of those top few clubs then things like a big stadium and CL football are essential I would say. We could rely on luck each year but I don't think that would achieve one in five.

It's a shame you don't think we will ever win the CL, and more of a shame that you don't care about it. I think those games are incredible to watch - so much hype and the tension of being a 2-leg knockout format is gripping in my opinion. Far better than watching us play lower league opposition in domestic cups. Just different opinions I suppose.

Out of interest, how would you rate West Ham's chances of a trophy this season? Do they stand a chance at all?

I would liken West Ham now to the scenario Spurs were in during the 90-00s, just with a bigger stadium! A club with potential, a very demanding fan base, but seemingly not able to mix it with the big boys. They are probably safe from relegation but it's not nailed on. Their only chance of a trophy is one of the domestic cups, but when you look at the squad strength of the big teams even that seems like a stretch. Beyond relying on luck, how would they go about achieving the one in five ratio?

Difference between us and West Ham, we've been looking to invest behind the scenes in terms of infrastructure and backroom staff since Enic took over. West Ham spend money on their team rather than developing the club. Their biggest infrastructure addition to their portakabin training ground is putting astroturf in the corridors. We have had a plan in place to upgrade the club, West Ham just hope to appease the fans with signings.

 

[mkkid]

That certainly shines a light on the motivation behind some of your posts. I guess we are from different generations and just have an opposite outlook on football... which is totally fine.

My formative Spurs years were during the 90s when relegation was a genuine concern each year! You would hope for a cup run or to beat Arsenal at some point during the season but that was basically it. I would imagine that Villa and Newcastle thought they were too big to be relegated.

I can't agree with the idea of a trophy every five years though, particularly in relation to everything else you said. One every five years is unrealistic for everybody apart from the top few clubs, and if we want to be one of those top few clubs then things like a big stadium and CL football are essential I would say. We could rely on luck each year but I don't think that would achieve one in five.

It's a shame you don't think we will ever win the CL, and more of a shame that you don't care about it. I think those games are incredible to watch - so much hype and the tension of being a 2-leg knockout format is gripping in my opinion. Far better than watching us play lower league opposition in domestic cups. Just different opinions I suppose.

Out of interest, how would you rate West Ham's chances of a trophy this season? Do they stand a chance at all?

I would liken West Ham now to the scenario Spurs were in during the 90-00s, just with a bigger stadium! A club with potential, a very demanding fan base, but seemingly not able to mix it with the big boys. They are probably safe from relegation but it's not nailed on. Their only chance of a trophy is one of the domestic cups, but when you look at the squad strength of the big teams even that seems like a stretch. Beyond relying on luck, how would they go about achieving the one in five ratio?

Newcastle are a myth my granddad cant remember them winning a trophy, TV pushes this myth about them. Villa haven't been relevant since the early 80s ,both clubs have been relegated numerous times since the 1980s. It not the 1990s anymore and a lot of our fanbase need to realise this and demand more of board and not be grateful for crumbs from the masters plate.
Since the 50s, spurs have averaged a trophy every 5 years.
Id love to win the CL, but I feel the club don't share the same ambition.
West Ham are nothing like us, they have won 4 trophy in there entire history ,unless you count the world cup!
They haven't got our fanbase and play in a Altheltics stadium that they don't own and if they managed to buy them have to spent 400 million to rebuild it as well as rebuilding the team.
They have to compete Against Arsenal, Man utd,Tottenham , Chelsea, Liverpool and Everton, who all have better teams and fanbases.
Any team can be lucky in the cup, unless its us as the manager doesn't care about domestic cups.

 

[mkkid]

I think it's more that he doesn't much care for the domestic cups. Which makes sense - no club these days is going to prioritise them over the top 4, and he is much more secure in his job if we come third than if we come 5th but win a League Cup. It's sad but it's the way things are.

He has literally said he doesn't about cup competitions and I agree its sad..