Levy plans to stay long term but must consider takeover bids

[vegassd]

Mate, the vast majority of our income is from the TV deal (£140m). The amount we pay to watch the team is relative to us being a premium product for entertainment consumption. Matchday revenue is what? £30m?

What's happened to the 2 to 3 seasons of CL cash? (£120m?)

I think my beef is that this team have appeared to be on the cusp of something special the last few years, and it may only have taken a couple of upgrades in key areas to get us over the line (in which areas is subjective). It's like the film, "The Cube." The cubes only arrange themselves in the right order every once in blue moon, and the time to strengthen is when you're strong. We have been strong. We haven't massively strengthened the team recently. Some fans are happy with that, others aren't. You have to pay the market rate.

I agree about the TV money etc. It was your post that seemed to imply that because we finished 3rd in the league we should have bought more expensive players. My reply to that was that I don't think league position should determine how much money a team spends.

I'm not sure the CL cash is quite as much as 120m but certainly around the 100m mark. We could look at Alexis Sanchez as being the calibre of player that many fans want us to buy. His deal to United is meant to be worth about 180m over the four years of his contract. That's like us paying 3+ years of CL money for just one player.

But then think about how that will affect the rest of the squad. Current players will want contract boosts so our total wage bill will rise beyond just that new player. It's impossible to predict just what those numbers would end up as, but we can be confident they would go up and not down. So now we are effectively looking at 4-5 years worth of CL money to afford that one player.

I agree that you have to pay the market rate. Unfortunately for us that rate is sky high at the moment and would have those knock on effects throughout the squad. A big spending spree is probably something we would be capable of, but it would be something we could do only once and then be held back financially for many years after that.

As fans, we have been calling for that one big spree that will take us to the "next level" ever since the Jol era. So when do you pull the trigger and do it? Imagine we spent the money building an AVB team that didn't become a trophy winner. By the time Poch arrives there would be no money left to spend. Same goes for Redknapp, Ramos or Jol. It's impossible to know if any of those managers would have been able to build a league-winning team, but we can be fairly sure that the subsequent couple of managers wouldn't have had the money to try.

I totally agree with you about the strengthening thing, and also about it being subjective. But I disagree about the end goal. You say "over the line" but what does that mean? Different things to different fans probably. Some fans would be happy to spend 150m to win the FA cup once. Personally I want to win 10+ out of the next 40 FA cups, and I believe that the best way to do that is gradual but continual investment both on and off the pitch.

I'm not interested in a one-off, plastic spending spree. I want to see this club grown until it can genuinely stand toe-to-toe with the traditional giants of the game. If you think that can be achieved with one spending blast then I guess you will be disappointed with ENIC. For me, the "market rate" of true success is actually patience, perseverance and the ability to take a long-term view.

 

[LarryCatt]

I can help you with this.

Liverpool have: Firmino, Sturridge
Chelsea have: Morata, Giroud
Utd have: Lukaku, Rashford, Martial, Sanchez
Arsenal have: Lacazette, Aubameyang
City have: Aguero, Jesus

The only "like for like" there in a Kane/Llorente model is Morata and Giroud. Not much different from Kane and Llorente, except our first choice is better.

Sturridge is perma crocked and can rotate across a front three

Martial, Rashford and especially Sanchez are not happy, causing huge background issues at Man Utd, play across the front three and all command wages and transfer fees out of our reach.

Lacazette and Aubameyang play in the same starting XI this season

Jesus and Aguero again out of our price range.

Not seen a cohesive argument yet that proves Poch or Levy wrong.

 

[Shadydan]

It's very simple. All Levy has to do is make a couple of solid investments in the team and fans would be on his side.

With such a strategic mind as yours I reckon you should put yourself forward to be our next chairman.

 

[daryl hannah]

With such a strategic mind as yours I reckon you should put yourself forward to be our next chairman.

If you were Levy, what would you do to get the dissenters among us onside? Or do we not matter?

 

[Lighty64]

Based on your post there would be no subs anywhere in the world. You do realise that at every game all across the world there a number of substitutes on the bench that consists of players who dream big. You buy players to challenge those in the first team and if they oust them then hooray - you have players playing for their place in the team and this raises levels just like the Trippier / Walker, Davies / Rose scenario.

Totally agree but the only way you oust Kane is when injured, and then preform. There was rumour of a striker not that far back that admitted he didn’t join because of the competition being Kane

 

[Lighty64]

If you were Levy, what would you do to get the dissenters among us onside? Or do we not matter?

the weird thing is for a company that only care about bricks and mortar, they must care to provide an extra 26k seats even if they benefit, because they could of just carried on sod the waiting list and kept pinching bits here bits there but still enough to make their life's comfy.

why build a 62k stadium and then hope to sell for 2b. if no one ever offers it they won't of reached their goal, and old Joe ain't going to live forever

 

[Shadydan]

If you were Levy, what would you do to get the dissenters among us onside? Or do we not matter?

Dissenters being the most fickle fans, absolutely nothing as they;ll be onside once the stadium is built.

 

[mpickard2087]

Since SC came into existence it's always been said that we just needed one or two players more. That ignores though that what happens is not linear. Teams don't stay the same they gain and also lose players, and ignores what other teams are doing. It used to be we just needed a top goalkeeper, well we got Lloris, still not enough. That we needed a strong settled defence, we got Alderweireld and Vertonghen.... About four/five years ago the buzz phrase on here was that all we needed was a 25 goal a season striker to win the league, well we had a 35 goal a season one in the academy for free it turned out, still didn't happen.... We used to have too much depth causing problems under Redknapp, now we don't have enough under Poch.... If we managed to sign three CM's, I wonder what the next fault will be.........?

Also, I did a post on this last week, but the spend big to 'get us over the line' argument(s) and take us to the next level are absolute bollocks really. It suggests that you clear the last hurdle and then the game is completed, we can celebrate till the end of time. That isn't how it works. Even if we did, and won the league, from minute one after that no one else cares, life goes on, a new season starts. Several other clubs would still be more attractive, have more money, more prestige, and would outspend us yet again, maybe more than ever, in order to leapfrog us back to the top. Plus some of our players would become more attractive to other clubs, offers with even bigger sums would be getting chucked at them, we might not be able to bat all of them away...... My point being that the challenge would be just as hard as ever and maybe even harder.

As for the stadium, I don't think expecting it automatically to be putting us in a position to be spending mega amounts and getting galactico players is what fans should be thinking. I'd see it as that it gives us the potential to create the conditions where we could in future. White Hart Lane meant we had a glass ceiling. The new stadium firstly shows a forward thinking modern club, but allows us the opportunity (though more work needs to go on in the surrounding N17 area on top of what's already happened) to attract the corporate, the big money, the sponsors, get the club even more exposure and get us known out there to as many casuals as possible and enjoy the benefits of it. Now of course the product on the pitch needs to be an attractive, and fairly successful one, and is something the club must be (and I'm sure is) mindful of, but it's a long term infrastructure and future proofing for the club and things aren't going to change overnight in terms of our place in the food chain and pissing even more money up the transfer wall.

 

[Lou3000]

Since SC came into existence it's always been said that we just needed one or two players more. That ignores though that what happens is not linear. Teams don't stay the same they gain and also lose players, and ignores what other teams are doing. It used to be we just needed a top goalkeeper, well we got Lloris, still not enough. That we needed a strong settled defence, we got Alderweireld and Vertonghen.... About four/five years ago the buzz phrase on here was that all we needed was a 25 goal a season striker to win the league, well we had a 35 goal a season one in the academy for free it turned out, still didn't happen.... We used to have too much depth causing problems under Redknapp, now we don't have enough under Poch.... If we managed to sign three CM's, I wonder what the next fault will be.........?

The year we got Alderweireld and a 25 goal striker was the year we challenged for the league. So, were we right?

 

[dtxspurs]

The year we got Alderweireld and a 25 goal striker was the year we challenged for the league. So, were we right?

Nailed on pal, a couple of midfield/fullback upgrades and this team challenges for the title again. Not that hard to figure out.

 

[cliff jones]

With such a strategic mind as yours I reckon you should put yourself forward to be our next chairman.

there you go playing the man again. Deal with the points, man- the points.

 

[mpickard2087]

The year we got Alderweireld and a 25 goal striker was the year we challenged for the league. So, were we right?

No. Our football club has at long last finally combined solid enough purchases (plus the odd academy jewel...) with an extremely competent modern football manager who can improve players and is tactically sound.

 

[[email protected]]

that won't wash with @[email protected] because Joe Lewis is richer than the Sheik. he will disagree with you with a rating whatever rating he choses then go into hiding and not respond unless he finds a small hole in your post, or if you disagree with something he says

For fuck's sake, what are you ranting about now? Half the time I have no idea what you're arguing, because you end up contradicting yourself. But if you're so keen for me to respond to you, how about I do so with a couple of your very OWN POSTS on Levy/ENIC (and you can rate them accordingly):
@Lighty64 : "the trouble is, the same old moaners pipe up with 'we won't buy anyone because of ENIC', pretty boring"
Also @Lighty64 : "we won't sign diddly squat. If we don't buy anyone I don't see us getting CL or keeping Poch, and it will be Levy and ENIC's fault"
For me, the words "irony" and "contradiction" spring to mind, but I'll leave it to others to find the "small hole" in your reasoning.

 

[Shadydan]

there you go playing the man again. Deal with the points, man- the points.

You want me to quote every other rebuttal in this thread to that, cause I can if you want to?

 

[cliff jones]

I agree about the TV money etc. It was your post that seemed to imply that because we finished 3rd in the league we should have bought more expensive players. My reply to that was that I don't think league position should determine how much money a team spends.

I'm not sure the CL cash is quite as much as 120m but certainly around the 100m mark. We could look at Alexis Sanchez as being the calibre of player that many fans want us to buy. His deal to United is meant to be worth about 180m over the four years of his contract. That's like us paying 3+ years of CL money for just one player.

But then think about how that will affect the rest of the squad. Current players will want contract boosts so our total wage bill will rise beyond just that new player. It's impossible to predict just what those numbers would end up as, but we can be confident they would go up and not down. So now we are effectively looking at 4-5 years worth of CL money to afford that one player.

I agree that you have to pay the market rate. Unfortunately for us that rate is sky high at the moment and would have those knock on effects throughout the squad. A big spending spree is probably something we would be capable of, but it would be something we could do only once and then be held back financially for many years after that.

As fans, we have been calling for that one big spree that will take us to the "next level" ever since the Jol era. So when do you pull the trigger and do it? Imagine we spent the money building an AVB team that didn't become a trophy winner. By the time Poch arrives there would be no money left to spend. Same goes for Redknapp, Ramos or Jol. It's impossible to know if any of those managers would have been able to build a league-winning team, but we can be fairly sure that the subsequent couple of managers wouldn't have had the money to try.

I totally agree with you about the strengthening thing, and also about it being subjective. But I disagree about the end goal. You say "over the line" but what does that mean? Different things to different fans probably. Some fans would be happy to spend 150m to win the FA cup once. Personally I want to win 10+ out of the next 40 FA cups, and I believe that the best way to do that is gradual but continual investment both on and off the pitch.

I'm not interested in a one-off, plastic spending spree. I want to see this club grown until it can genuinely stand toe-to-toe with the traditional giants of the game. If you think that can be achieved with one spending blast then I guess you will be disappointed with ENIC. For me, the "market rate" of true success is actually patience, perseverance and the ability to take a long-term view.

good post but I haven't seen anyone calling for a spree. Just concerned last window, and the next two, that we are likely losing tow or three key players- and expecting to see them replaced with quality. As opposed to not at all.

In CM we have to buy a more established player, with an incisive pass. Winks, Wanyama and Dier don't have it. And a 20 year old who'd be more of a punt. And another go at a young wide forward who can play through the middle. This is to stay where we are, not suddenly leapfrog City- get real.

 

[cliff jones]

You want me to quote every other rebuttal in this thread to that, cause I can if you want to?

nah, just each time you reply don't play the man. The moaners this, the moaners that, Leeds. I'd better stop cos I'm now playing the man! That's what happens when posters don't play the point.

 

[dtxspurs]

No. Our football club has at long last finally combined solid enough purchases (plus the odd academy jewel...) with an extremely competent modern football manager who can improve players and is tactically sound.

The right piece or two can make everything else a lot better.

 

[Lighty64]

For fuck's sake, what are you ranting about now? Half the time I have no idea what you're arguing, because you end up contradicting yourself. But if you're so keen for me to respond to you, how about I do so with a couple of your very OWN POSTS on Levy/ENIC (and you can rate them accordingly):
@Lighty64 : "the trouble is, the same old moaners pipe up with 'we won't buy anyone because of ENIC', pretty boring"
Also @Lighty64 : "we won't sign diddly squat. If we don't buy anyone I don't see us getting CL or keeping Poch, and it will be Levy and ENIC's fault"
For me, the words "irony" and "contradiction" spring to mind, but I'll leave it to others to find the "small hole" in your reasoning.

see you missed out the bit that suits, in that post I said we won't buy diddly squat, but mentioned if WE DON'T GET RID OF SOME OF THE DEADWOOD derrrrrrrr

all you do is post we won't buy because its Levy and ENIC an investment company

 

[mpickard2087]

The right piece or two can make everything else a lot better.

And would also be followed by several million posts of whiny bollocks about not getting the third and fourth piece.

Happens every single time.

 

[piedpiper]

That can’t be clear to you. There are too many unknowns and too many plausible alternatives.

You ascribe evidence that contradicts your thesis as “jaw-dripping spin” but you have no basis for doing that.

Only a very small number of people close to the situation can have strong thoughts about what happened. Everyone else is speculating.

You welcome to your opinion on the matter. I have mine..... I read quite a bit in here and make my own deductions. You dont see the agenda that was out there and thats also fine. Im not in the business of trying to turn posters views. We all adults and can draw our conclusions.

Mine is that there was so much spin and BS on the part of the club on the Toby situation.