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Levy plans to stay long term but must consider takeover bids

piedpiper

Well-Known Member
Aug 14, 2008
3,758
6,763
I wouldn't say cocked up, because until his advisers got involved £120k or £130k was something he himself was going to agree, and in general is what most top CB get bar VVD

Hi Lighty... Yeah im saying that story didnt wash with me. We've been around the forum long enough to see it.

Look i genuinely believe ITK share in good faith. I realy do. However perhaps they could have been misled on Toby and that infamous contract. I dont buy it for a moment. Prior to his injury he was in the team.. Then it all went pear shaped and suddenly the stories came out. Maybe im too cynical but if it smells like fish it is a fish.. Or something like that:p.
 

vegassd

The ghost of Johnny Cash
Aug 5, 2006
3,356
3,330
good post but I haven't seen anyone calling for a spree. Just concerned last window, and the next two, that we are likely losing tow or three key players- and expecting to see them replaced with quality. As opposed to not at all.

In CM we have to buy a more established player, with an incisive pass. Winks, Wanyama and Dier don't have it. And a 20 year old who'd be more of a punt. And another go at a young wide forward who can play through the middle. This is to stay where we are, not suddenly leapfrog City- get real.

People might not call it a "spree" (although some do) but in reality it would be.

I personally think we need two new CMs, one new striker/winger/forward, better options at both full back positions and possibly even a new goalkeeper if we want to think about winning the league. If we only got four of those players you could easily be looking at 150m. In order to make room you need to shift four others, and if you're forcing them out you take a financial loss which must be added to the total.

Buying good players will cost a lot of money in wages as well, with the secondary effect of making existing players more likely to demand more money. Add agent's fees onto that, plus bonuses that would inevitably be included in these star-player contracts and you're looking at a huge amount of money.

And even if we get all that in place, the first thing people will do is start listing the next "one or two" who will take us to the "next level".

Where it becomes a bit annoying for folks like me is that it's a constant stream of complaint despite the clear improvement in the playing squad over the years. We have been steadily improving without taking financial risks, yet many fans still believe that a splash of cash will guarantee instant trophies. Life simply isn't like that (just look at all football clubs ever) so it's annoying to see people roll it out like it's gospel.

But anyway, once the new stadium is open for business there will no longer be the same excuse about the wage cap. We will get a fairly unadulterated look at the sporting ambition that ENIC has for the club. If they aren't able to oversee an improvement in the playing squad then it will show their limitations.
 

coys200

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2017
8,436
17,403
Really struggling to sell these city tickets they are gonna lose a fortune. Game capped at 50k anyway. Probably currently sold 35k. To still have so many lower tier available for a game against the champions and been on general sale for about a week. If the rent is £1m approx as touted probably gonna lose £1.5m per game. Think we’ve reached the tipping point as far as Wembley goes.
 

Lighty64

I believe
Aug 24, 2010
10,400
12,476
Really struggling to sell these city tickets they are gonna lose a fortune. Game capped at 50k anyway. Probably currently sold 35k. To still have so many lower tier available for a game against the champions and been on general sale for about a week. If the rent is £1m approx as touted probably gonna lose £1.5m per game. Think we’ve reached the tipping point as far as Wembley goes.

still nearly 2 weeks before we play them
 

am_yisrael_chai

Well-Known Member
Feb 18, 2006
6,409
10,931
the weird thing is for a company that only care about bricks and mortar, they must care to provide an extra 26k seats even if they benefit, because they could of just carried on sod the waiting list and kept pinching bits here bits there but still enough to make their life's comfy.

why build a 62k stadium and then hope to sell for 2b. if no one ever offers it they won't of reached their goal, and old Joe ain't going to live forever
Firstly before you ask I’m not replying to every single one of your posts because I’m busy working and secondly because as I said in a recent post we should both acknowledge by now that neither will convince the other so debate is pretty pointless.

That being said I’m truly staggered by your post. Are you genuinely suggesting that ENiC’s motivation in building the new stadium is catering to the fans on the waiting list ? Seriously ?
 
Last edited:

Lighty64

I believe
Aug 24, 2010
10,400
12,476
Firstly before you ask I’m not replying to every single one of your posts because I’m busy working and secondly because as I said in a recent post we should both acknowledge by now that neither will convince the other so debate is pretty pointless.

That being said I’m truly staggered by your post. Are you genuinely suggesting that ENiC’s motivation in building the new stadium is catering to the fans on the waiting list ? Seriously ?

our waiting list started growing before a stadium was even put into thought, once Martin Jol turned us around. to grow as a business you have to cater for the extra. to have a 40-50k waiting list (ok a lot where bronze that just wanted to be able to get match tickets), is not much kop with a 36k stadium where 24-26k where season ticket holders. we are now heading into a 62k stadium 43k ST holders and if it was just about money he would of had it at less, because he could sell tickets over a season and make more money for 1 seat than he does about a ST holder.

if he and ENIC had the idea to do this stadium so they could sell up, they would of started it a lot earlier, why wait 5-6 years? you keep on and on that they will sell, as I said in 1 of the replies you won't answer because your too busy EVERY SINGLE CLUB IN THE COUNTRY HAS A PRICE, AND IS UP FOR SALE if they where offered the right money tomorrow. ENIC won't sell now because the development isn't finished. the trouble they do have is if in 2 years time the TV money does crash, they have no chance of ever getting 2b, and they won't get it while there is a debt over the club, especially with the increase in cost.

your right though, impossible to discus though. I know Levy has his faults and has f'd up big time on at least 3 transfer windows. yourself and a few others will never ever give the man any credit because your season ticket price, his failure to secure a sponsor and an even bigger failure to sign anyone this last window.
 

vegassd

The ghost of Johnny Cash
Aug 5, 2006
3,356
3,330
Firstly before you ask I’m not replying to every single one of your posts because I’m busy working and secondly because as I said in a recent post we should both acknowledge by now that neither will convince the other so debate is pretty pointless.

That being said I’m truly staggered by your post. Are you genuinely suggesting that ENiC’s motivation in building the new stadium is catering to the fans on the waiting list ? Seriously ?

Just a few pages back in this thread you were slagging off another poster for being patronising and for not offering any counter arguments to your own post. Here you are doing both things yourself.

Debate is never pointless on these things, especially when your views are quite extreme. If you cannot find any common ground with others in a debate then it may mean that your own opinions are a bit wide of the mark. Even if you are admitting that you are stubborn enough to not be convinced any other way (regardless of arguments/evidence put forward) it's still worth debating because you might find some extra nuance that actually helps your own argument.

Anyway, if I'm to understand some of your previous posts I'm guessing that you believe the motivation of the new stadium to be boosting a property portfolio for ENIC. Would that be correct?

If so, would it not be easier for ENIC to boost their property portfolio by building luxury apartments, office buildings and exclusive casinos around London rather than building a new stadium? Especially considering that they already had a stadium in the first place.

Joe Lewis is one of the richest men in this country and runs a number of companies who specialise in commercial and residential property. He owns holiday resorts and golf clubs and office developments around the world. His ability to make money is enormous. So why would he need to squeeze money out of a football team to try and fund further property investment?
 

daryl hannah

Berry Berry Calm
Sep 1, 2014
2,674
7,717
Just a few pages back in this thread you were slagging off another poster for being patronising and for not offering any counter arguments to your own post. Here you are doing both things yourself.

Debate is never pointless on these things, especially when your views are quite extreme. If you cannot find any common ground with others in a debate then it may mean that your own opinions are a bit wide of the mark. Even if you are admitting that you are stubborn enough to not be convinced any other way (regardless of arguments/evidence put forward) it's still worth debating because you might find some extra nuance that actually helps your own argument.

Anyway, if I'm to understand some of your previous posts I'm guessing that you believe the motivation of the new stadium to be boosting a property portfolio for ENIC. Would that be correct?

If so, would it not be easier for ENIC to boost their property portfolio by building luxury apartments, office buildings and exclusive casinos around London rather than building a new stadium? Especially considering that they already had a stadium in the first place.

Joe Lewis is one of the richest men in this country and runs a number of companies who specialise in commercial and residential property. He owns holiday resorts and golf clubs and office developments around the world. His ability to make money is enormous. So why would he need to squeeze money out of a football team to try and fund further property investment?
Tottenham Hotspur is a growing brand. Do you know what that is worth?

I find your comments slightly naive to be honest.
 

cliff jones

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
4,057
6,511
People might not call it a "spree" (although some do) but in reality it would be.

I personally think we need two new CMs, one new striker/winger/forward, better options at both full back positions and possibly even a new goalkeeper if we want to think about winning the league. If we only got four of those players you could easily be looking at 150m. In order to make room you need to shift four others, and if you're forcing them out you take a financial loss which must be added to the total.

Buying good players will cost a lot of money in wages as well, with the secondary effect of making existing players more likely to demand more money. Add agent's fees onto that, plus bonuses that would inevitably be included in these star-player contracts and you're looking at a huge amount of money.

And even if we get all that in place, the first thing people will do is start listing the next "one or two" who will take us to the "next level".

Where it becomes a bit annoying for folks like me is that it's a constant stream of complaint despite the clear improvement in the playing squad over the years. We have been steadily improving without taking financial risks, yet many fans still believe that a splash of cash will guarantee instant trophies. Life simply isn't like that (just look at all football clubs ever) so it's annoying to see people roll it out like it's gospel.

But anyway, once the new stadium is open for business there will no longer be the same excuse about the wage cap. We will get a fairly unadulterated look at the sporting ambition that ENIC has for the club. If they aren't able to oversee an improvement in the playing squad then it will show their limitations.

We don't NEED what you're advocating to compete for 4th, which is the obvious aim. If we wanted to challenge the big money clubs a few more upgrades would be.

In the meantime, I'm sticking with my view- that most expect like for like replacements brought in. So that's quality for MD and likely TA as well. And a couple of punts which might come off, might not. That's not a spree in definition or practice.

And to my other view, that under ENIC we won't ever compete with the other big five on fees or wages. We have a different philosophy, don't you know... and it's not temporary...

Cheers
 

dtxspurs

Welcome to the Good Life
Dec 28, 2017
11,234
46,574
American lottery is at $868 million, take home would be about $520 mil after taxes. That should give me enough for a down payment to buy the club...
 

vegassd

The ghost of Johnny Cash
Aug 5, 2006
3,356
3,330
We don't NEED what you're advocating to compete for 4th, which is the obvious aim. If we wanted to challenge the big money clubs a few more upgrades would be.

In the meantime, I'm sticking with my view- that most expect like for like replacements brought in. So that's quality for MD and likely TA as well. And a couple of punts which might come off, might not. That's not a spree in definition or practice.

And to my other view, that under ENIC we won't ever compete with the other big five on fees or wages. We have a different philosophy, don't you know... and it's not temporary...

Cheers

I agree we don't need it to compete for 4th. I said that we would need those things to compete for the title, but that's just my opinion. I think we have all that we need to be able to compete for 4th already.

And I totally agree that we have a different philosophy to the other five clubs. It appears to be the ENIC philosophy that investment in the squad will only happen within what can be afforded and we won't take a big financial risk on players. Having the new stadium means that (in theory) what we can afford increases dramatically and we can start to close that spending gap. If ENIC don't invest that money once it becomes available I think that would show a lack of ambition.
 

Hercules

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2014
5,694
156,565
GB is spot on!!!

Take blinkers off please!
And latest PR propaganda excuses uttered at recent THST, and his side kick DC
 

vegassd

The ghost of Johnny Cash
Aug 5, 2006
3,356
3,330
Tottenham Hotspur is a growing brand. Do you know what that is worth?

I find your comments slightly naive to be honest.

I was talking specifically about israel's worries that ENIC is taking money from THFC to build their own property portfolio. My point was that Joe Lewis already has property investment companies and a truck load of cash, so if he wanted to build a property portfolio he would find it much easier to do it directly through those companies.

As for the value of a growing brand... yes of course it is very valuable. I can't say I've looked at the most recently published THFC accounts to see what they quantify the goodwill at so I would be interested for you to let me know exactly what it is worth.

I'm sorry you find my comments naive. I try to explain my thought process as best as possible without getting into essays too much. Trying to have a proper debate on an Internet forum is an uphill struggle! I would be interested to know which parts of my comments are naive so I can try and learn and get a better understanding of the situation though.

In summary, I think that ENIC bought the club in order to make money.
They will only make money if the sell the club for more than they bought it and they have to improve the club facilities as well as the playing squad in order to achieve that.
They have an interest in growing the brand internationally because it will make them more money when they sell.
They have an interest in building a new stadium and training ground because it will make them more money when they sell.
The majority of decisions they make have the end goal of making them more money.

I have no illusions that they chose us because they really liked the kit or were boyhood fans or anything like that. It's an investment opportunity for them. But thankfully, the things that will make them money are aligned with the things that will bring us success as a club and (hopefully) enjoyment as fans.

But I don't think they are using THFC to build a property portfolio and I don't think that they choose to not buy players because they think it will make them more money.
 

SirNiNyHotspur

23 Years of Property, Concerts, Karts & Losing
Apr 27, 2004
3,125
6,743
I was talking specifically about israel's worries that ENIC is taking money from THFC to build their own property portfolio. My point was that Joe Lewis already has property investment companies and a truck load of cash, so if he wanted to build a property portfolio he would find it much easier to do it directly through those companies.

As for the value of a growing brand... yes of course it is very valuable. I can't say I've looked at the most recently published THFC accounts to see what they quantify the goodwill at so I would be interested for you to let me know exactly what it is worth.

I'm sorry you find my comments naive. I try to explain my thought process as best as possible without getting into essays too much. Trying to have a proper debate on an Internet forum is an uphill struggle! I would be interested to know which parts of my comments are naive so I can try and learn and get a better understanding of the situation though.

In summary, I think that ENIC bought the club in order to make money.
They will only make money if the sell the club for more than they bought it and they have to improve the club facilities as well as the playing squad in order to achieve that.
They have an interest in growing the brand internationally because it will make them more money when they sell.
They have an interest in building a new stadium and training ground because it will make them more money when they sell.
The majority of decisions they make have the end goal of making them more money.

I have no illusions that they chose us because they really liked the kit or were boyhood fans or anything like that. It's an investment opportunity for them. But thankfully, the things that will make them money are aligned with the things that will bring us success as a club and (hopefully) enjoyment as fans.

But I don't think they are using THFC to build a property portfolio and I don't think that they choose to not buy players because they think it will make them more money.
I actually agree with a lot of your post, except the last part, they chose not to buy players as it saved them money and risk, capital they could put more safely elsewhere. Also whilst their profit making is somewhat aligned to our success the reality is it isn't completely, you just have to see they stand to make a very healthy profit without adding to our trophy cabinet. Also probably the main gripe with myself and possibly other anti-Enicer's is that there have been multiple times over those years were we were crying out for some additions to give us that extra to see us over the line, that would have required $ risk but may have made the difference on many occassions between 1st and 2nd. The reality is 2nd still makes them plenty of cash, they clearly don't have the same ambitions for on field success or they would have striked many times whilst the iron was hot.
 
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