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Luka Modric to Real Madrid - DONE

StartingPrice

Chief Sardonicus Hyperlip
Feb 13, 2004
32,568
10,280
It's not that I have a fear, I just want some guarantees against us doing to them what we're doing to Internacional with Damiao. I don't particularly believe its smart to lose at your own game.

Which come down to whether you think Levy might have some idea of what he is doing or not. As I said, Ballague is very clear that this is a deal that will effect players at academy level.
And, would love to know what it is that we are doing to Internacional with Damiao other than having the goalposts moved constantly no matter what we offer them an extended period :eek:

Look, Boots, there really is nothing to stop us bidding for Inter's players, but, as we discovered over Oscar, any deal we have in place doesn't prevent them from accepting a higher bid from anyone else. I would imagine it is the same with us and Real.

Just, like I said, Levy has clearly been trying to do something in Spain for a while, and he took advantage of Real's desire for Modric to get them to go into it with us. As Ballague says, it seems like a no brainer that it is going to be massively advantageous for us. We are now giong to be privvy to marketing and coaching information and innovations from some of the biggest clubs on all the continents, now, and, we will get information and facilitation on academy players, as well. Levy is a prime mover in building this network of clubs.

My immediate reaction was that it was another link in a chain Levy is building that will give us all types of advantages over our domestic opposition, and that Levy would have been the one pushing for this because we will get benefits that are worth being a tad more reasonable on the asking price for Modric. That Levy was the one pushing for it came was later confirmed, though that he had been trying for a while to do a deal in Spain was news to me. I jsut don't get that your first thought would be that Bale will be off next year, now, and Real will get him cheap - it doesn't actually make any sense. And what Ballague says is that Levy is seen as an ogre in Spain - i.e. an incredibly difficult negotiator. In theory, there is nothing to prevent Real, or any other club coming in for Bale, if we fail to get CL and he wants to move, but when pushed on the matter, Ballague effectively laughed at the idea of Real using the relationship on Levy to get anything more than a hearing and, effectively, said well, they can try, good luck with that sheeeee-ite on Dan levy, Real (y)
 

Boots

Active Member
Sep 11, 2011
293
167
Which come down to whether you think Levy might have some idea of what he is doing or not. As I said, Ballague is very clear that this is a deal that will effect players at academy level.
And, would love to know what it is that we are doing to Internacional with Damiao other than having the goalposts moved constantly no matter what we offer them an extended period :eek:

Look, Boots, there really is nothing to stop us bidding for Inter's players, but, as we discovered over Oscar, any deal we have in place doesn't prevent them from accepting a higher bid from anyone else. I would imagine it is the same with us and Real.

Just, like I said, Levy has clearly been trying to do something in Spain for a while, and he took advantage of Real's desire for Modric to get them to go into it with us. As Ballague says, it seems like a no brainer that it is going to be massively advantageous for us. We are now giong to be privvy to marketing and coaching information and innovations from some of the biggest clubs on all the continents, now, and, we will get information and facilitation on academy players, as well. Levy is a prime mover in building this network of clubs.

My immediate reaction was that it was another link in a chain Levy is building that will give us all types of advantages over our domestic opposition, and that Levy would have been the one pushing for this because we will get benefits that are worth being a tad more reasonable on the asking price for Modric. That Levy was the one pushing for it came was later confirmed, though that he had been trying for a while to do a deal in Spain was news to me. I jsut don't get that your first thought would be that Bale will be off next year, now, and Real will get him cheap - it doesn't actually make any sense. And what Ballague says is that Levy is seen as an ogre in Spain - i.e. an incredibly difficult negotiator. In theory, there is nothing to prevent Real, or any other club coming in for Bale, if we fail to get CL and he wants to move, but when pushed on the matter, Ballague effectively laughed at the idea of Real using the relationship on Levy to get anything more than a hearing and, effectively, said well, they can try, good luck with that sheeeee-ite on Dan levy, Real (y)

I'm not oblivious to Levy's ability as a shrewd negotiator and he being an honestly devoted supporting chairman of the club but I'm not foolish enough to think every deal he concludes will have positive outcome for the club especially one that has no official statement other than "The partnership agreement will see the two Clubs working together in respect of players, coaching, best practices and commercial relationships." That leaves quite an ambiguity as to what exactly our agreement with the Madrid club really is. I know its early but I want something concrete from the club on that issue. Balague I understand is a respected insider but his opinions at best are just that and the fact that he says to the effect that the deal was executed hours after Real lost to Getafe not being a coincidence leaves me with the understanding that if a player is in our ranks that they want and he wants to go they'll get them.

On the topic of the player transfer fees, I don't believe I have said they'll go cheap I just wanted a guarantee that they'll not hound us over the deal for repeated windows, and say use this deal as a shield to tapping up charges.

At the end of the day when you deal with clubs that can buy who they want, when they want, for what they want you only have but very few restraints from their advances for your players. So excuse me if I want something more than their word.
 

hybridsoldier

Well-Known Member
Aug 2, 2004
5,892
1,185
Firstly I thought...thank god its finally done, and good riddance.

Just been whoring around the Madrid site last 10 mins...gonna miss the little fucker, and can understand him wanting to play for a club/institution the size of Madrid. Just seeing him on that website with those players in that shirt in that stadium...finally got that feeling of "damn we used to have that and now look at him". Guess its like seeing your ex all tarted up with some big shot new boyfriend.

But at the end of the day, I won't sit here and wish him well because I don't. You judge a man by his actions and last 2 summers his behaviour has been pretty shitty and disrespectful.
 

beals

SC Supporter
Dec 22, 2003
1,540
193
Just happy to see this transfer complete at last & not on Friday evening. It turned a tad sour, but Luka said v little to the media this summer and thanked us today. So good luck to him, hope he has a successful Madrid career.

Now hopefully we can start sorting our incomings.
 

ShelfSide18

Well-Known Member
Aug 23, 2006
8,386
3,122
I'm not quite getting this ill feeling from some tbh, he wanted to move - fine - he didn't get his move away and he then did the shocking thing of coming back into the team and performing excellently all season, with no signs of sulking that I could determine. He then wanted to move again, to one of the biggest clubs in world football, he's got his wish and we've got a top premium for the guy to find the next Luka Modric. Don't see what all this fuss is about to be honest, I wish him well for the future and I'm sure he would want to see us do well in the future.
 

StartingPrice

Chief Sardonicus Hyperlip
Feb 13, 2004
32,568
10,280
I'm not oblivious to Levy's ability as a shrewd negotiator and he being an honestly devoted supporting chairman of the club but I'm not foolish enough to think every deal he concludes will have positive outcome for the club especially one that has no official statement other than "The partnership agreement will see the two Clubs working together in respect of players, coaching, best practices and commercial relationships." That leaves quite an ambiguity as to what exactly our agreement with the Madrid club really is. I know its early but I want something concrete from the club on that issue. Balague I understand is a respected insider but his opinions at best are just that and the fact that he says to the effect that the deal was executed hours after Real lost to Getafe not being a coincidence leaves me with the understanding that if a player is in our ranks that they want and he wants to go they'll get them.

On the topic of the player transfer fees, I don't believe I have said they'll go cheap I just wanted a guarantee that they'll not hound us over the deal for repeated windows, and say use this deal as a shield to tapping up charges.

At the end of the day when you deal with clubs that can buy who they want, when they want, for what they want you only have but very few restraints from their advances for your players. So excuse me if I want something more than their word.

TBH, that is a non-sequitor (it just does not follow). They lost at Getafe so they felt the need to get a player we all know we have been in negotiations with them for the whole Summer, and so Levy caved in and let the player go cheaper than he has been holding out for to the point of obstinacy, with no reference to this agreement that they had (presumably) already agreed to, and therefore, all they have to do is demand Gareth Bale and we will comply? No, sorry, but it doesn't make any sense. I will give you an alternative scenario, it is sheer hypothesis, but it does make more sense, IMVHO: Real lose to Getafe, they realise that they really could do with this player, who they have been low-balling over in the hope of saving a few quid, and they realise that they had best stop fecking us about, be a tad more contrite and a little more giving in their negotiating stance. They concede to a version of this agreement, which has obviously been discussed at length (clause by clause they will have went over and over it, believe me) which is advantageous to us, and maybe up their price a bit. No reference to Bale or easily taking star players from us at will (why should they be if they were trying to please us by giving concessions). To me, that sounds far more plausible than that we should have whimpered and caved in for them because they were struggling.

Well, no, of course Levy isn't infallible, and he does make mistakes. I do, however, feel that it si a bit previous to imagine he would strike a deal that he was pushing for as part of the make-weight in our favour, that would distill down to them being able to take our best players from us.

Obviously, I can't provide any other evidence that the players in question are primarily academy level, but it is significant, IMVHO, that Balague should stress this twice. What I can do, is push you in the direction of what other unoffical sources are saying (unless the agreement is made open to public viewing we may never know, or only ever get second hand reports).

So, for instance, Matt Scott, in the Telegraph, claims have spoken to a source familiar with the talks between the two clubs, available, here:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...een-Tottenham-Hotspur-and-Spanish-giants.html

I think this os one of the most important bits:

"What precisely the co-operation will in future entail has yet to be confirmed, although sources say Jose Mourinho will initiate a flow of Real Madrid players to White Hart Lane.
“Jose likes his players to have Premier League experience because it adds to their game,” said a source who is familiar with the talks between the clubs."

And this, presumably from the same source:

"...the deal has already raised inevitable speculation that the relationship will eventually lead to Gareth Bale, Spurs’ most marketable player, moving to Madrid. The source dismissed the suggestions that a pre-transfer agreement had been struck."


ESPN, meanwhile, reports comments that purport to come from a Spurs insider, available herre:

http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/167072.html?CMP=OTC-RSS

Again, import passage:

"Tottenham Hotspur have denied that their "partnership agreement" with Real Madrid means the Spanish club have first refusal on their star players."

and:

"...a Spurs source has told ESPN: "Speculation, that's all it is. All the talk about Bale and Real is speculation. Spurs' partnership with Real Madrid does not cover this sort of thing."

Again, none of this is proof positive, but it does seem that all sources quoted as having any idea at all of what is going on is doing anything but strenuously denying that Real having first dibs, or, even a firm claim, on any of our star players, is anything to do with this deal. It does, however, offer something of what you wanted to know - what Real will get out of it. For a start, we have an innovative chairman who is making our club competitive at the top of the EPL, I hardly think the finnacial sharing of knowledge will jsut all be Real telling us how it's done. I would imagine we have a fair few tips for them, too. Apparently, Mouinho also likes his young players to get experience in different leagues, including the EPL -what better way to do that than with a freindly club whose coaches you know and trust. Again, we may get some tips from them in coaching, and I am sure they really do have one of the best coaching set-ups that money can buy, but they can't buy every coach (come on, even United can't buy every referee ;)),and we have some highly thought off young coaches ourselves.

It is a mutually beneficial agreement, that we may get slightly the better deal from - it is Levy initiating these agreements and pushing for this one, in particular, as part of this deal - like I said, I hardly see him doing that, in a situation where Real are looking to be conciliatory to us, and it being primarily something that they can pull our future pants down on, over star players.

To be honest with you, Boots, what makes you think the likes of Barca and Real Madrid don't hound clubs for repeated windows - they Real did that to United over Ronaldo (UNITED :eek:), and Barca did it to the Goons over Fabregas. I hardly think they would be too desperate to use this deal as a shield to tapping up charges. especially not when it was clearly something that was obviously going to be weighted, in its final form, in our favour as they were being conciliatiry because they realised their low-balling wasn't working, was pissing us off and they really did need this particular player.

At the end of the day, they is a pretty good chance that Real and Barca will be coming in for Bale anyway, and neither of themwould hesitate for a second to harass us and unsettle the guy, it's not like they don't normally do that. I can't prove anything, however. But, like I said, the first thing that occurred to me was that this must have been something that Levy was really pushing for that, in its final form, must have been weighted nicely for us as they would have been in a conciliatory mood. Not that we would all of a sudden be vulnerable to teams who habitually unsettle and low-ball players unsetlling and low-balling.
 

StartingPrice

Chief Sardonicus Hyperlip
Feb 13, 2004
32,568
10,280
I'm not quite getting this ill feeling from some tbh, he wanted to move - fine - he didn't get his move away and he then did the shocking thing of coming back into the team and performing excellently all season, with no signs of sulking that I could determine. He then wanted to move again, to one of the biggest clubs in world football, he's got his wish and we've got a top premium for the guy to find the next Luka Modric. Don't see what all this fuss is about to be honest, I wish him well for the future and I'm sure he would want to see us do well in the future.

No, it's not that bit that is grating. When we signed him, I said that if we had him for three years and then made a good profit on him I would be happy.
It is the signing a six year contract and saying he signed it because he felt he could achive his ambitions with us, and months later saying he was happy where he was and waiting to see the clubshowing ambition in the transfer market, and, a couple of weeks later giving an interview with a newspaper making it clear that he had been tapped up, and clearly not giving a feck about it.
It was the wanting to go to our despised rivals and telling anyone who would listen it was because it was his dream.
But, most of all, it was when he decided he wanted to leave, suddenly claiming that he only signed his six year contract because he wanted to ensure we got a good price for him, and then spending two Summers in a row, after a deliberately off making a low-ball offer had been made by a club who had clearly unsettled him and then left him to do their dirty work, ding said dirty work, in a way that weakened his present employers bargaining position, and with the seeming intent of forcing us to accept a bid that would ahve been millions of pounds less than we would have eventually got (something north of £12million in chelsea's case, gawd knows, exactly, with Real, but, at least, £8 million I would say, as well as signing a club agreement in a form faourable to us, as I have argued above - Berbatov did the same, he acted in a way that could have forced us to accept £11 million less than United finally paid - thanks only to Dan levy being even more ruthless than our opponents on each occasion). As far as I am concerned, no player should have that power over the club where their first loyalty should lie until their registration is passed - eeven if they do want to move to further their careers.
And that is what I have against Modric, and why I will always consider him as a great player who played for Spurs, rather than a great Spurs players - he ttried to shaft us out of millions.
To throw your post on its head, I just do not understand how any Spurs fan could be prepared to overlook such goddam shitey, underhand behaviour.
 

Boots

Active Member
Sep 11, 2011
293
167
TBH, that is a non-sequitor (it just does not follow). They lost at Getafe so they felt the need to get a player we all know we have been in negotiations with them for the whole Summer, and so Levy caved in and let the player go cheaper than he has been holding out for to the point of obstinacy, with no reference to this agreement that they had (presumably) already agreed to, and therefore, all they have to do is demand Gareth Bale and we will comply? No, sorry, but it doesn't make any sense. I will give you an alternative scenario, it is sheer hypothesis, but it does make more sense, IMVHO: Real lose to Getafe, they realise that they really could do with this player, who they have been low-balling over in the hope of saving a few quid, and they realise that they had best stop fecking us about, be a tad more contrite and a little more giving in their negotiating stance. They concede to a version of this agreement, which has obviously been discussed at length (clause by clause they will have went over and over it, believe me) which is advantageous to us, and maybe up their price a bit. No reference to Bale or easily taking star players from us at will (why should they be if they were trying to please us by giving concessions). To me, that sounds far more plausible than that we should have whimpered and caved in for them because they were struggling.

Well, no, of course Levy isn't infallible, and he does make mistakes. I do, however, feel that it si a bit previous to imagine he would strike a deal that he was pushing for as part of the make-weight in our favour, that would distill down to them being able to take our best players from us.

Obviously, I can't provide any other evidence that the players in question are primarily academy level, but it is significant, IMVHO, that Balague should stress this twice. What I can do, is push you in the direction of what other unoffical sources are saying (unless the agreement is made open to public viewing we may never know, or only ever get second hand reports).

So, for instance, Matt Scott, in the Telegraph, claims have spoken to a source familiar with the talks between the two clubs, available, here:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...een-Tottenham-Hotspur-and-Spanish-giants.html

I think this os one of the most important bits:

"What precisely the co-operation will in future entail has yet to be confirmed, although sources say Jose Mourinho will initiate a flow of Real Madrid players to White Hart Lane.
“Jose likes his players to have Premier League experience because it adds to their game,” said a source who is familiar with the talks between the clubs."

And this, presumably from the same source:

"...the deal has already raised inevitable speculation that the relationship will eventually lead to Gareth Bale, Spurs’ most marketable player, moving to Madrid. The source dismissed the suggestions that a pre-transfer agreement had been struck."


ESPN, meanwhile, reports comments that purport to come from a Spurs insider, available herre:

http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/167072.html?CMP=OTC-RSS

Again, import passage:

"Tottenham Hotspur have denied that their "partnership agreement" with Real Madrid means the Spanish club have first refusal on their star players."

and:

"...a Spurs source has told ESPN: "Speculation, that's all it is. All the talk about Bale and Real is speculation. Spurs' partnership with Real Madrid does not cover this sort of thing."

Again, none of this is proof positive, but it does seem that all sources quoted as having any idea at all of what is going on is doing anything but strenuously denying that Real having first dibs, or, even a firm claim, on any of our star players, is anything to do with this deal. It does, however, offer something of what you wanted to know - what Real will get out of it. For a start, we have an innovative chairman who is making our club competitive at the top of the EPL, I hardly think the finnacial sharing of knowledge will jsut all be Real telling us how it's done. I would imagine we have a fair few tips for them, too. Apparently, Mouinho also likes his young players to get experience in different leagues, including the EPL -what better way to do that than with a freindly club whose coaches you know and trust. Again, we may get some tips from them in coaching, and I am sure they really do have one of the best coaching set-ups that money can buy, but they can't buy every coach (come on, even United can't buy every referee ;)),and we have some highly thought off young coaches ourselves.

It is a mutually beneficial agreement, that we may get slightly the better deal from - it is Levy initiating these agreements and pushing for this one, in particular, as part of this deal - like I said, I hardly see him doing that, in a situation where Real are looking to be conciliatory to us, and it being primarily something that they can pull our future pants down on, over star players.

To be honest with you, Boots, what makes you think the likes of Barca and Real Madrid don't hound clubs for repeated windows - they Real did that to United over Ronaldo (UNITED :eek:), and Barca did it to the Goons over Fabregas. I hardly think they would be too desperate to use this deal as a shield to tapping up charges. especially not when it was clearly something that was obviously going to be weighted, in its final form, in our favour as they were being conciliatiry because they realised their low-balling wasn't working, was pissing us off and they really did need this particular player.

At the end of the day, they is a pretty good chance that Real and Barca will be coming in for Bale anyway, and neither of themwould hesitate for a second to harass us and unsettle the guy, it's not like they don't normally do that. I can't prove anything, however. But, like I said, the first thing that occurred to me was that this must have been something that Levy was really pushing for that, in its final form, must have been weighted nicely for us as they would have been in a conciliatory mood. Not that we would all of a sudden be vulnerable to teams who habitually unsettle and low-ball players unsetlling and low-balling.
No mas, no mas. Good lord you can type books.
 

AW?

Formerly known as *******Who?
Feb 6, 2006
13,205
4,951
United should have bought him. Glad they didn't but he would have transformed that team .
 

StartingPrice

Chief Sardonicus Hyperlip
Feb 13, 2004
32,568
10,280
United should have bought him. Glad they didn't but he would have transformed that team .

Thanks feck, eh!

How much of it is that they couldn't afford him, though, and how much that they knew Levy would tell them that they could go do one?
 

OmarsComing

Mentally Disturbed Individual!
Jan 2, 2011
7,255
7,665
He goes with my blessing.

See it from his perspective and 100% of you would have done the same. i.e being a foreigner with no affiliation with the club you are at, going to one of the top 3 clubs in the world on double your wages.
 

StartingPrice

Chief Sardonicus Hyperlip
Feb 13, 2004
32,568
10,280
He goes with my blessing.

See it from his perspective and 100% of you would have done the same. i.e being a foreigner with no affiliation with the club you are at, going to one of the top 3 clubs in the world on double your wages.

What?
You would have tried to shaft your employers out of millions of pounds to the benefit of your prospective employers?
Don't you think that's a bit unethical?

As stated above, when we signed him I said if we had him for three seasons and made a massive profit on him it would be fine with me - we got more than both. The fact that he wanted to further his career, or even his earning potential is not an issue with me. The faact that not once but twice he behaved in a way calcualted to force us to accept a patently low-ball offer.
 

rez9000

Any point?
Feb 8, 2007
11,942
21,098
I'm not quite getting this ill feeling from some tbh, he wanted to move - fine - he didn't get his move away and he then did the shocking thing of coming back into the team and performing excellently all season, with no signs of sulking that I could determine. He then wanted to move again, to one of the biggest clubs in world football, he's got his wish and we've got a top premium for the guy to find the next Luka Modric. Don't see what all this fuss is about to be honest, I wish him well for the future and I'm sure he would want to see us do well in the future.
It's the clash between the heart and the head.

The head says that there's nothing wrong with being ambitious or for trying to realise one's ambitions. In the grand scheme of things, he behaved himself far better than some players. A fairly recent example was Berbatov getting on a plane and flying to see Fergie before we'd even given United permission to talk to him. And last season he did indeed knuckle down and put in the effort for the team. So, when one examines it dispassionately, he has been slightly more professional than the average footballer and deserves the necessary credit for doing so.

The heart says, 'TRAITOR! DISLOYAL WHORE! CHEAT! HE BETRAYED US AND I WANT HIM TO FAIL!'

Whether for good or ill, I see football as being more about heart than head, though.
 
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