Mace says faulty wiring behind Spurs stadium delay

mawspurs

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Contractor breaks silence on problems as Premier League club prepares to unveil a new opening timetable.
Mace chief executive Mark Reynolds said “Issues with critical safety systems were identified. This is linked to the fire detection contractor encountering higher than usual electrical wiring faults.”

Source: Building
 

Trix

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#2
It might be the highest profile reason but lets be honest, there were/are other bits that are not on schedule and are being rushed through as well. Always thought the project time scale was just too ambitious, and now it's proving to be so.
 

DJS

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#3
I just hope it is 100% safe once actually declared ready as wouldn’t want to see us rush to get it ready under pressure and then have a fire break out on match day with ground filled with supporters.
 

Rocksuperstar

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#4
It might be the highest profile reason but lets be honest, there were/are other bits that are not on schedule and are being rushed through as well. Always thought the project time scale was just too ambitious, and now it's proving to be so.
While it may have been a little ambitious, I don't think it was fantasy. If this issue hadn't come up we'd have gone with the test events (There is no way on earth Levy would want to announce test events if he knew there was even a chance of having to put them off, that's as much about pride and you can't really price that) and we all agreed it was clear work would continue on the details right up until the last minute, but anyone other than an architect or engineer saying, "I told you so" now is a bit weak.

We can say that this person or that said this or that wasn't ready or wouldn't be, or it was bad planning - not ONE person has flagged this wiring problem until the club announced it, so everyone taking shots and the problem that hamstrings us is one no-one had or could've seen coming.

Perspective, people. Almost every big project will run over, lets just enjoy the fact that this was identified now and we aren't the next football stadium disaster for the news to pour over for decades to come.
 

Metalhead

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#5
While it may have been a little ambitious, I don't think it was fantasy. If this issue hadn't come up we'd have gone with the test events (There is no way on earth Levy would want to announce test events if he knew there was even a chance of having to put them off, that's as much about pride and you can't really price that) and we all agreed it was clear work would continue on the details right up until the last minute, but anyone other than an architect or engineer saying, "I told you so" now is a bit weak.

We can say that this person or that said this or that wasn't ready or wouldn't be, or it was bad planning - not ONE person has flagged this wiring problem until the club announced it, so everyone taking shots and the problem that hamstrings us is one no-one had or could've seen coming.

Perspective, people. Almost every big project will run over, lets just enjoy the fact that this was identified now and we aren't the next football stadium disaster for the news to pour over for decades to come.
Totally agree BUT in view of the fact that big projects often do run late, why would the club not avoid adverse media by pushing the date back in the first place?
 

Dougal

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#6
Totally agree BUT in view of the fact that big projects often do run late, why would the club not avoid adverse media by pushing the date back in the first place?
They did. Just not far enough. The original deadline was imposed solely to meet with the footballing calendar. I’m sure people would’ve been a lot happier to get a more realistic deadline but they aimed high. So high in fact, that even in failure you can hear the echoes of bitchin’ and back biting. I was going to say ‘glory’ because in a few months we’ll be settled into one of the most glorious stadiums in the world but people are a bit too stuck in the present right now to see the bigger picture.
 

Metalhead

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#7
They did. Just not far enough. The original deadline was imposed solely to meet with the footballing calendar. I’m sure people would’ve been a lot happier to get a more realistic deadline but they aimed high. So high in fact, that even in failure you can hear the echoes of bitchin’ and back biting. I was going to say ‘glory’ because in a few months we’ll be settled into one of the most glorious stadiums in the world but people are a bit too stuck in the present right now to see the bigger picture.
Oh yeah, in the grand scheme of things it's blown out of proportion a bit but DL is so thorough that he wouldn't want to take unnecessary chances I would have thought.
 

Real_madyidd

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#8
Totally agree BUT in view of the fact that big projects often do run late, why would the club not avoid adverse media by pushing the date back in the first place?

Because big projects run late. Whatever date you announce something will still need doing (or redoing) so somethin like a stadium is never actually "finished".
 

Metalhead

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#9
Because big projects run late. Whatever date you announce something will still need doing (or redoing) so somethin like a stadium is never actually "finished".
But there's unfinished - unsafe to move in and unfinished - stadium is safe to open. Of course I appreciate that big projects run over - I actually stated that in my post. In fairness to Levy, he was obviously made promises by the contractors and he can only accept the opinion of the people with the expertise but it was just frustrating because the club are usually fastidious in the way that they handle the media/PR side of things and in this instance the media have been able to print it like it's a cock up.
 

Rocksuperstar

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#10
I'm just glad it wasn't structural - when they said safety my first fear was something at base level that would require some serious remodeling - at least wiring can be rerouted in a relatively short period without having to call the plant machinery back in or pull out retaining walls.
 

davidmatzdorf

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#11
In the midst of a pile of the usual PR blather from Reynolds, this bit screams out as the token accurate statement:

'And he said pictures showing an incomplete stadium, which have been published since news of the delay broke, were misleading. “Many of the outstanding external elements of the build are cosmetic and are not required for the stadium to open for the first football game.”'​

The forum is cluttered up with "I told you so" posts insisting that the whole build was months behind and that the fire safety issue was a cover. That's bollocks. I can tell a last-minute panic-freak-out in the construction industry when I see one. Fuck knows I've been subjected to enough of them. That's what this was. Everything was grinding toward opening an incomplete-but-legal stadium on 15 Sept.

The fire safety wiring trashed the plan. Out of the blue. I can tell because of the way statements have been made, when and by whom. It's a pattern and I recognise it. When a project is really running late throughout, it's a different pattern of bullshit. I've seen way too many of those, too.
 

vegassd

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#12
I read earlier in the week that the reason this came "out of the blue" was that previous testing on the individual elements in the electrical system had all passed, but it was only once they were running the additional tests of the whole thing put together that things were not quite right.

No idea if that's true or not but it sounds feasible.
 

Dougal

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#13
We can say that this person or that said this or that wasn't ready or wouldn't be, or it was bad planning - not ONE person has flagged this wiring problem until the club announced it, so everyone taking shots and the problem that hamstrings us is one no-one had or could've seen coming.
I don’t know how you can believe what the Club say when there’s blokes on the Internet with another view. My mate who lives in Wood Green knows someone who reads the Daily Mail and he said in 1997 that Levy had this season ticket scam in place so he could get VIP tickets to a Jay Z gig. Now you can take that with a pinch of salt, a drizzle of extra virgin olive oil and a hint of rosemary but it’s lunch time soon and I’m hungry.
 

jenko

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#14
I just hope it is 100% safe once actually declared ready as wouldn’t want to see us rush to get it ready under pressure and then have a fire break out on match day with ground filled with supporters.
Yes, Unfortunately crowd safety is no longer just about avoiding fire and crush zones.
 

jenko

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#15
Because big projects run late. Whatever date you announce something will still need doing (or redoing) so somethin like a stadium is never actually "finished".
Yeah I can't even get my house finished so they'll have the same problem on a bigger scale. It'll still be changing 2 years from now I reckon.
 

Rocksuperstar

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#16
I don’t know how you can believe what the Club say when there’s blokes on the Internet with another view. My mate who lives in Wood Green knows someone who reads the Daily Mail and he said in 1997 that Levy had this season ticket scam in place so he could get VIP tickets to a Jay Z gig. Now you can take that with a pinch of salt, a drizzle of extra virgin olive oil and a hint of rosemary but it’s lunch time soon and I’m hungry.
Jesus christ, i'm hungry now too... what garnish would work well with an HB pencil? It's all i've got til lunch :(
 

Sweetsman

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#17
In the midst of a pile of the usual PR blather from Reynolds, this bit screams out as the token accurate statement:

'And he said pictures showing an incomplete stadium, which have been published since news of the delay broke, were misleading. “Many of the outstanding external elements of the build are cosmetic and are not required for the stadium to open for the first football game.”'​

The forum is cluttered up with "I told you so" posts insisting that the whole build was months behind and that the fire safety issue was a cover. That's bollocks. I can tell a last-minute panic-freak-out in the construction industry when I see one. Fuck knows I've been subjected to enough of them. That's what this was. Everything was grinding toward opening an incomplete-but-legal stadium on 15 Sept.

The fire safety wiring trashed the plan. Out of the blue. I can tell because of the way statements have been made, when and by whom. It's a pattern and I recognise it. When a project is really running late throughout, it's a different pattern of bullshit. I've seen way too many of those, too.
So, who's at fault here? Or is it not a case of fault?
 

mawspurs

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From what i read the system was installed and tested 18 months ago and passed its initial tests and has now due to poor workmanship failed when they retested it prior to the test events.
 

davidmatzdorf

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#19
So, who's at fault here? Or is it not a case of fault?
It's too early to tell, really, and it will be the subject of much dispute, spin and blame. But my cards would be on the subcontractor who had overall responsibility for the fire safety system. They may or may not have farmed out the defective wiring to another electrical subcontractor, but even so, it was their responsibility to deliver a fit-for-purpose fire alarm system to a timetable.

If I understand the construction-management contractual arrangements correctly, THFC will claim against Mace, who in turn will claim against the subcontractor, who will try to claim against anyone to whom they sub-subcontracted the defective elements of the work (if they did). Eventually, the buck will stop and someone will either make a humungous claim on their negligence insurance or go bust.

I read earlier in the week that the reason this came "out of the blue" was that previous testing on the individual elements in the electrical system had all passed, but it was only once they were running the additional tests of the whole thing put together that things were not quite right.
From what i read the system was installed and tested 18 months ago and passed its initial tests and has now due to poor workmanship failed when they retested it prior to the test events.
If this is so (and it sounds plausible), I wonder if the defect here was in the trunking - the casing to keep the wiring protected. If it was installed and tested 18 months ago and has failed now, it's hard to see a way for the wiring itself to have failed spontaneously between then and now, but it's easy to see how the trunking, much of which has been exposed to the elements through most of those 18 months, could have been incorrectly specified (not weatherproof) or badly installed (leaks), which in turn damaged the wiring.

It's just an educated guess, no inside info.
 

cider spurs

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#20
Sorry I may have missed. Has there been anything official disclosure wise regarding penalties for delay ??

Last I read it was suggested that Mace were unlikely to have had a penalty clause include in the build contract, but that seemed to just be opinion.

Just wondered whether there has been anything concrete one way or the other.

Not that it's going to change anything, just intrigued to know what kind of sums we'd be looking at if applicable.
 
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