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Match Threads Manchester United vs Spurs - Match Thread

Waiwonder

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2012
386
886
Yeah, there was a few instances where he didn't give us a clear and blatant foul.

I agree with our defensive tactics from last night, and whilst I didn't think we were at our best with the ball last night there was certainly an intention to allow United to come at us more and soak things up - although Rose's rustiness was not helping with that at all - and that could explain why we weren't so sharp with the ball due to the adapting.

I think Poch is starting to apply different things now, rather than try outplay the bigger teams at their ground we are setting up for the counter a bit better and keeping a more solid defensive base. Last season at OT I think we went there thinking if we played to our strengths it would be the best move, however Mourinho's teams will always shut down the passing lanes and look to exploit you with a moment or set piece. Whilst you could see United shutting off the passing lanes, you could also see that we were actually trying to bypass that, we threatened with it in the 1st half and it certainly worked in the second half.

Looking at how we have played against both Newcastle and Fulham we are surrendering possession more frequently and I do believe this is partly down to an adaption in how we are set up to play. At the same time we still have the gears to move up should we need to.

would have thought he would have adapted sooner given how we played against real in both legs last season
 

TottenhamMattSpur

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
10,925
16,007
Seen this on Sky Sports yet?
http://www.skysports.com/football/n...ight-to-defend-manchester-united8217s-display

Basically using stats to prove United should have won.
I was chatting to a WHU fan today who's no fan of ours, but she said she doesn't recall Lloris having to make any special saves. I'd say their expected goal stat is pointless. We scored 3, they scored none and only genuinely went close once.

Also, where they win the ball back has nothing to do with whether they deserved to win does it? Seriously! Why have SSN not twigged that we may well have conceded the ball on purpose to open them up?

Why not point out that they had only 2 corners in the first half, not exactly a huge disparity, and when we got one, we instantly made it count. No luck, it was a quality corner that was very badly defended.

The media are so pro man U it's pathetic.
 

doctor stefan Freud

the tired tread of sad biology
Sep 2, 2013
15,170
72,169
Anybody else think that Lukaku just isn't that great? He's clearly no where near Kane as a player. Can't fully tell if he's just not being used correctly based on the other players around him or what but he just doesn't scare me at this point.
He really is a poverty stricken man’s Drogba- he’s just not proficient enough to play in a team that stunts the opposition and relies on clinical finishing on the break
 

wakefieldyid

SC Supporter
Jun 13, 2006
1,560
1,591
Anybody else think that Lukaku just isn't that great? He's clearly no where near Kane as a player. Can't fully tell if he's just not being used correctly based on the other players around him or what but he just doesn't scare me at this point.
To be blunt, it looks very much like he's discovered Accrington's most renouned export, Hollands Pies :):)
.
 

ljinko888

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2016
2,080
5,376
Lukaku is a glorified Hernandez. Can't create for himself so relies heavily on service and even then he needs 3/4 chances to score.

People always have likened him to Drogba but they're nothing alike. I can think of a subconscious reason why they do it, but someone like Mitrovic is much more like Drogba than Lukaku who has no physical prowess to hold off defenders and make room for himself despite being big and muscular.
 

spursbhoy67

Well-Known Member
Dec 20, 2006
1,316
1,475
There is still a lot of room for improvement with this team, but some positive takeaways from a coaching perspective.
MP has tweaked his team in each of the three games. Second half performances have been much better although we did start well v Fulham too.
Yesterday he brought back three players who were on their way out - good man management.
In the second half you could tell players were told to make runs in behind Shaw and between the central defenders - good adjustment at half-time.
During the game he spoke to Kane and Moura and looked like he told HK to drop deep and LM to push on high. That is how the third goal was scored.

Another big test v Watford at the weekend. No good beating United and then letting the new boys turn us over. Needs to be a win or a draw on the road. Their movement up front will cause problems, so could see a shuffle in the line up with Sanchez back in.
 

davidmatzdorf

Front Page Gadfly
Jun 7, 2004
18,106
45,030
There are so many posts stereotyping Mourinho's teams as "defensive football" that I can't quote them all. It's a gross oversimplification, as is the assertion that he doesn't coach players, he only buys them ready-made.

Mourinho's trademark style is to set up an ironclad defence, with a top defensive midfielder in front of them, and coach the fuck out of them until they're nearly impossible to score against. They have rare positional discipline, they close down the passing channels (as they did last night in the first half) and stifle balls into space for the fullbacks (as they did last night in the first half).

In front of that back 6, sometimes 7, he selects 4-5 world-class attacking players, usually bought as established stars, and lets them get on with it. The coaching is directed at setting up the platform and the creative players are trusted to work with each other to make goals happen.

To me, his travails at Man Utd have been caused by two things. 1) His defenders aren't good enough, he bought two more that haven't settled in and he can't persuade Woodward to buy any more, so his rock-solid platform is full of holes; 2) unlike his great Chelsea team and his Inter Milan team, he has a mismatched set of attacking players. They're all good individually, but they don't mesh. And he hasn't got the patience or the man-management skills to sandpaper their edges until they do.

This is where my perennial argument against the people who argue that "the other clubs are all strengthening" comes from. They are buying new players. That doesn't mean they are becoming stronger. Sometimes (as in the players we bought with the proceeds from selling Bale) you buy good players and they just don't have compatible styles. That's the problem with Man Utd's attacking squad. They aren't on the same wavelength and Mourinho isn't used to having to fix this. He doesn't know how.

It's also one reason why Pochettino prefers to buy younger, less-established players. If they don't fit in when they arrive, most of them do after a year. And if they don't, they're gone, first on loan and then permanently. They didn't cost £70m each, so he can get away with that where Mourinho can't.
 
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worcestersauce

"I'm no optimist I'm just a prisoner of hope
Jan 23, 2006
26,891
45,040
Stop liking it you lot! He's as bad as the moaners! We all know we can get a result in the prem, that's not the issue!!

Why can't we enjoy a result without making it a trophy/transfer point proving thing?
As a supporter who did trust Poch and Levy and who didn't moan in the summer I am of the opinion that Grahem Roberts should shut the fuck up, he's always been an arsehole, such a shame for a former Spurs captain.
 

TheChosenOne

A dislike or neg rep = fat fingers
Dec 13, 2005
47,873
49,701
Lukaku is a glorified Hernandez. Can't create for himself so relies heavily on service and even then he needs 3/4 chances to score.

People always have likened him to Drogba but they're nothing alike. I can think of a subconscious reason why they do it, but someone like Mitrovic is much more like Drogba than Lukaku who has no physical prowess to hold off defenders and make room for himself despite being big and muscular.

I am of the opinion that Lukaku is musclebound.

Not supple enough for the delicate touches required sometimes. If he gave me a slap I would probably die
 

rossdapep

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2011
21,905
78,641
There are so many posts stereotyping Mourinho's teams as "defensive football" that I can't quote them all. It's a gross oversimplification, as is the assertion that he doesn't coach players, he only buys them ready-made.

Mourinho's trademark style is to set up an ironclad defence, with a top defensive midfielder in front of them, and coach the fuck out of them until they're nearly impossible to score against. They have rare positional discipline, they close down the passing channels (as they did last night in the first half) and stifle balls into space for the fullbacks (as they did last night in the first half).

In front of that back 6, sometimes 7, he selects 4-5 world-class attacking players, usually bought as established stars, and lets them get on with it. The coaching is directed at setting up the platform and the creative players are trusted to work with each other to make goals happen.

To me, his travails at Man Utd have been caused by two things. 1) His defenders aren't good enough, he bought two more that haven't settled in and he can't persuade Woodward to buy any more, so his rock-solid platform is full of holes; 2) unlike his great Chelsea team and his Inter Milan team, he has a mismatched set of attacking players. They're all good individually, but they don't mesh. And he hasn't got the patience or the man-management skills to sandpaper their edges until they do.

This is where my perennial argument against the people who argue that "the other clubs are all strengthening" comes from. They are buying new players. That doesn't mean they are becoming stronger. Sometimes (as in the players we bought with the proceeds from selling Bale) you buy good players and they just don't have compatible styles. That's the problem with Man Utd's attacking squad. They aren't on the same wavelength and Mourinho isn't used to having to fix this. He doesn't know how.

It's also one reason why Pochettino prefers to buy younger, less-established players. If they don't fit in when they arrive, most of them do after a year. And if they don't, they're gone, first on loan and then permanently. They didn't cost £70m each, so he can get away with that where Mourinho can't.
Excellent post.

This is exactly why I can't ever see us spending 60m + on a player because we can't ever be lumped with a player who cost so much yet offered little.
 

ComfortablyNumb

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2011
3,970
6,128
Lukaku is a glorified Hernandez. Can't create for himself so relies heavily on service and even then he needs 3/4 chances to score.

People always have likened him to Drogba but they're nothing alike. I can think of a subconscious reason why they do it, but someone like Mitrovic is much more like Drogba than Lukaku who has no physical prowess to hold off defenders and make room for himself despite being big and muscular.
I think it’s down to personality. Drogba had arrogance and confidence to go with his skills. Mitrovic has skills and is a hard bastard to go with it. Lukaku is skilful enough, and athletic, but looks a bit of a bottler. It’s what held Heskey back, too.
 

Mate

Well-Known Member
Dec 9, 2006
1,570
3,859
Seen this on Sky Sports yet?
http://www.skysports.com/football/n...ight-to-defend-manchester-united8217s-display

Basically using stats to prove United should have won.
I was chatting to a WHU fan today who's no fan of ours, but she said she doesn't recall Lloris having to make any special saves. I'd say their expected goal stat is pointless. We scored 3, they scored none and only genuinely went close once.

Also, where they win the ball back has nothing to do with whether they deserved to win does it? Seriously! Why have SSN not twigged that we may well have conceded the ball on purpose to open them up?

Why not point out that they had only 2 corners in the first half, not exactly a huge disparity, and when we got one, we instantly made it count. No luck, it was a quality corner that was very badly defended.

The media are so pro man U it's pathetic.

How the fuck are "expected goals" even calculated? It comes across as a made up stat to prove a point one way or another
 

werty

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2005
25,074
26,310
How the fuck are "expected goals" even calculated? It comes across as a made up stat to prove a point one way or another
Here

It's actually a very good tool, albeit it's not perfect. It's still better than simply looking at who had more shots or more touches of a ball in the box and drawing your conclusions from that.
 
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