Player Watch: Marcus Edwards

[ljinko888]

I don't get why TOB is being touted to be playing yet Edwards isn't. I would have thought in order to get him up to speed from injury minutes in the cups against senior footballers is what will help the transition.

 

[Disconosebleed]

We don't see any players train, yet we all spend hours and hours on here debating the merits of who gets picked and how they are played, every game on here. Why does the "we don't see him train" only apply to academy kids ?

We have plenty of competitive matches to base opinions about first-team players on, often hundreds of games. We don't have this with youth team players. Basically no one on here has a relevant opinion on Edwards as a first-team option because the limit of their knowledge of him as a first-team player is limited to the twenty minutes he played last year. This is the third time I've explained this point - if you don't agree with it fine, but it would help if you acknowledged that it exists.

We understand that playing U23, U19, U18 and similar international levels isn't the same as playing first team games, but it's not a different sport either, and it doesn't count for nothing as you seem to suggest. We can still form good, reliable opinions if we watch these players play many 90 minutes at these levels.

Yes, but not an opinion that should outweigh the opinions of the guy that sees him train every day. Again this is a point I have already made - I'm not saying that Pochettino is infallible and you should back his every decision unthinkingly, but when he's making a decision on a player you have very limited information on, you should defer to his better knowledge. I've seen plenty of Edwards, and I'm excited by him. I was disappointed that he wasn't included. But that doesn't mean I think it was the wrong decision, because I trust that Pochettino has seen a lot more of him than me and knows better. Frankly I think it's quite arrogant for anyone to think they know better than the guy who watches him every day based on his performances in youth team football.

 

[Lighty64]

Can't understand this one, I really don't see what GKN offers over Edwards apart from being a little bit stronger and French. He doesnt have the dribbling ability or end product of Edwards.

I'd be very frustrated if I was in his position tbh. Especially if I'm captain of a youth team and someone 2 years younger than me is getting opportunities in the first team.

For me the worst thing is that we actually need a player with Edwards abilities in our team. If we had a squad full of players that could take people on then I could understand it. But we're severely lacking in this area so I can't see how it would hurt putting him on the bench tomorrow and bringing him on for 10 minutes.

What's really the worst that could happen?

against a big bulky championship team that will hopefully be losing by a few, you then get frustrated players not happy with a young kid dancing rings around, that the frustration get's to them and he is set back another year due to injury.

when he came on in the 3 pre-season friendlies the other year he was just bouncing off the opposition, if he hasn't built up his core strength then playing against a bulky team from the Championship could set him back again.

 

[Luka Van der Bale]

regardless of where we all stand on this, have to admit this is gonna take a lot of maturity for him to deal with. imagine knocking on the door last year, being on the verge, getting a couple injuries and now not making the squad to face a championship side in the league cup. when you think a guy like sissoko, gkn have/will be taking minutes in spots he could fill. when hes seeing a teammate in TOB leapfrog him, when tonight hes playing in front of a few people when by next month, if given the chance, he could be playing in front of a full wembley, with the likes of kane, lloris and the other first teamers, against other premier league players hes looked up to for years. guy is almost 19, a baby but its not crazy for a boy his age to break through.

thats part and parcel of being a young player. but this is a special case, not just for his talent, but how long this dream has been a very realistic thought on his mind. teams will be trying every trick they can they turn his head and make him sour. its a balancing act for poch here.

We've been told many times he knows what he has to do. I doubt his lack of involvement tomorrow has come as a shock to him - he's clearly on a very specific programme to get him to where we want him to be. Be patient.

 

[DEFchenkOE]

against a big bulky championship team that will hopefully be losing by a few, you then get frustrated players not happy with a young kid dancing rings around, that the frustration get's to them and he is set back another year due to injury.

when he came on in the 3 pre-season friendlies the other year he was just bouncing off the opposition, if he hasn't built up his core strength then playing against a bulky team from the Championship could set him back again.

Maybe you're right but don't get ahead of yourself there, when was the last time we beat an English team in 90 mins at Wembley again?

 

[Chris Flynn]

3 league starts in the last 43, now can't even get a start in a CM3 over Sissoko. And the only thing Sissoko does better than Winks as a CM is be big.

And not injured

 

[thebenjamin]

Alasdair Gold‏Verified account@AlasdairGold 51m51 minutes ago
FT: Spurs 2, Swansea 2. The goalscorers Sterling & Bennetts were superb. Edwards after all the talk was anonymous.

 

[Lighty64]

Maybe you're right but don't get ahead of yourself there, when was the last time we beat an English team in 90 mins at Wembley again?

that's why I used the word HOPEFULLY, with us not using a full team 16/1 is very tempting

 

[Blake Griffin]

We have plenty of competitive matches to base opinions about first-team players on, often hundreds of games. We don't have this with youth team players. Basically no one on here has a relevant opinion on Edwards as a first-team option because the limit of their knowledge of him as a first-team player is limited to the twenty minutes he played last year. This is the third time I've explained this point - if you don't agree with it fine, but it would help if you acknowledged that it exists.


Yes, but not an opinion that should outweigh the opinions of the guy that sees him train every day. Again this is a point I have already made - I'm not saying that Pochettino is infallible and you should back his every decision unthinkingly, but when he's making a decision on a player you have very limited information on, you should defer to his better knowledge. I've seen plenty of Edwards, and I'm excited by him. I was disappointed that he wasn't included. But that doesn't mean I think it was the wrong decision, because I trust that Pochettino has seen a lot more of him than me and knows better. Frankly I think it's quite arrogant for anyone to think they know better than the guy who watches him every day based on his performances in youth team football.

i know you've explained your reasons why but i still don't see why that's arrogant but it's not arrogant to question why he played son at lwb, or why son got subbed and not alli, or why he plays sissoko, or why he even signed sissoko in the first place and so on and so forth. you can caveat it all you like but they all amount to the same thing. this forum wouldn't be very active if differing opinions to that of pochettino and anyone else at the club weren't allowed, it would basically just be @Trix talking to himself.

 

[Johnny J]

i know you've explained your reasons why but i still don't see why that's arrogant but it's not arrogant to question why he played son at lwb, or why son got subbed and not alli, or why he plays sissoko, or why he even signed sissoko in the first place and so on and so forth. you can caveat it all you like but they all amount to the same thing. this forum wouldn't be very active if differing opinions to that of pochettino and anyone else at the club weren't allowed, it would basically just be @Trix talking to himself.

Absolutely. Poch doubtless knows more about football than most of us ever will, but this is a discussion forum about (mainly) Spurs, and a big part of sport is fans talking about their team. That includes team selection and everything else.

If people are going to bring out the "Poch knows best" card then it's a pretty boring discussion.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Like who, and how can you back up that statement?

You really doubt this ?

Can you prove it's not?

I'm sure the odd person on here will have some anecdote about some kid they've heard of who was given a debut at some stage and it went badly, he emotionally collapsed never to be seen on a pitch again. But if we do the maths, I'm pretty sure we'd find those circumstances are pretty rare, possibly just prove the kid wasn't right for the profession anyway and probably wouldn't have had a career anyway, and there are thousands more who might have perfectly decent careers, or their careers would have started a hell of a lot sooner and been easier, if their clubs had just given them games instead buying hum drum players to pad out squads and block their path.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

We have plenty of competitive matches to base opinions about first-team players on, often hundreds of games. We don't have this with youth team players. Basically no one on here has a relevant opinion on Edwards as a first-team option because the limit of their knowledge of him as a first-team player is limited to the twenty minutes he played last year. This is the third time I've explained this point - if you don't agree with it fine, but it would help if you acknowledged that it exists.

But it is never this black and white. We sign players from different countries and leagues all the time that have no experience of our team, this league, this country, culture and base our belief on their future success on achievements under very different circumstances. League's less physical, more tactical, less competitive etc etc

It is not a simple case of everything we have seen at youth levels and U23 (which includes seniors) from Edwards is instantly disqualified from being able to inform a good opinion. We have watched Edwards in all his various levels and sub appearance for the first team. We watch shitloads of senior first team football. We are able to combine that knowledge to to form an opinion of what might happen if Edwards plays for the first team, because a) he has played against bigger, physical opponents lots of times, he has demonstrated an ability to cope with that, he will actually get better protection at first team level from refs, he will also be able to interact with even better quality players than he has so far in his career.

Can you acknowledge that?

We are not saying Edwards success at all youth levels merits him replacing a current first team player every week from now on, or guarantees he will be a future success, we are saying based on the fairly unique skill set we have seen him consistently display for years (and many of us have seen a lot more of him than Youtube clips, most of us have seen him play many full games at various different levels) and the talent pool we see every week currently available for the first team, the circumstances of this game - i.e. the Micky mouse cup - we believe Edwards is well worth a seat on the bench for this occasion. (we might say that for more games, but we are certainly saying it for this game).

Yes, but not an opinion that should outweigh the opinions of the guy that sees him train every day. Again this is a point I have already made - I'm not saying that Pochettino is infallible and you should back his every decision unthinkingly, but when he's making a decision on a player you have very limited information on, you should defer to his better knowledge. I've seen plenty of Edwards, and I'm excited by him. I was disappointed that he wasn't included. But that doesn't mean I think it was the wrong decision, because I trust that Pochettino has seen a lot more of him than me and knows better. Frankly I think it's quite arrogant for anyone to think they know better than the guy who watches him every day based on his performances in youth team football.

But I don't have limited information on Edwards. And I could say the same to you. Unless you know the real reasons Poch is excluding Edwards and it's something we all don't know, you would be stupid to back his judgement blindly.

It's not arrogance, any more than posting any opinion that disagrees wit anything Poch or any other football coach or administrator makes is.

 

[JamieSpursCommunityUser]

To put all this into context, Edwards is 18 years and 290 days today.

David Beckham was 19 years and 306 days when he made his league debut for Preston NE, on loan from United. Prior to this he'd made just one sub appearance in the league cup as 17 year old.

Paul Scholes made his professional debut at 19 years and 309 days.

Fergusson talks in his book how Beckham was a late developer, whilst Scholes had to overcome question marks over his stamina.

We just need to be patient.

(EDIT Beckham actually made 2 appearances for United 6 months earlier.)

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

We obviously don't :know: everything that goes on behind the scenes - but we do know some things, and from there, we can make logic deductions.

First, Edwards recently signed a contract extension this past summer. From that, I think we can safely assume that Edwards, and his family, had a long conversation(s) with Pochettino and McDermott. I guarantee that before Edwards would sign the extension - he and his family were primarily interested in one thing - how are Spurs going to prepare Edwards for the PL. Even more than money, I would bet A&C's left nut, that their primary concern was Edwards career trajectory.

Since we know Edwards signed the new contract, its safe to say that whatever Poch and McDermott said, it was enough to convince Marcus and his family that Spurs had a path for Marcus to make it to the first team. I can also be certain that Marcus does not care about sitting on a bench, or getting a few cameo minutes - unless that will help him reach his goal of becoming a regular PL player. Marcus does not need, nor want platitudes - he wants to be in the PL.

So - we know, as best we can, that Spurs outlined a path for Edwards this summer. If Pochettino and Spurs are already deviating from that plan - then I think its fair to say that Edwards, and his family would not be happy. Yet, we see no indication that Marcus or his family are disappointed with this young season. That leads me to believe that Marcus thinks he is on the right path - even without all the agreement of all the assistant coaches on this forum.

We also know that Edwards is captain of the Youth Cup squad...to me, that speaks to how the club thinks of Edwards. They know Marcus is an important asset, and its in the club's best interest to develop that talent into a PL player. They also know its important not to expose Edwards to unnecessary risks - and part of his development path includes building up a physique capable of handling the rigours of PL.

 

[DCSPUR]

@Allygold had a very interesting take on Edwards v Sterling against Swansea today:
http://www.football.london/tottenha...ts/marcus-edwards-himself-no-favours-13640022

 

[Bus-Conductor]

To put all this into context, Edwards is 18 years and 290 days today.

David Beckham was 19 years and 306 days when he made his league debut for Preston NE, on loan from United. Prior to this he'd made just one sub appearance in the league cup as 17 year old.

Paul Scholes made his professional debut at 19 years and 309 days.

Fergusson talks in his book how Beckham was a late developer, whilst Scholes had to overcome question marks over his stamina.

We just need to be patient.

(EDIT Beckham actually made 2 appearances for United 6 months earlier.)

Quoting players in a league which is renowned for not giving youth much of chance isn't really proving much.

Ouseman Dembele was 17, Mbappe was 17, Messi was 18 (16 proper debut in a friendly), Pogba was 18, Neymar 17.

 

[Flashspur]

But it is never this black and white. We sign players from different countries and leagues all the time that have no experience of our team, this league, this country, culture and base our belief on their future success on achievements under very different circumstances. League's less physical, more tactical, less competitive etc etc

It is not a simple case of everything we have seen at youth levels and U23 (which includes seniors) from Edwards is instantly disqualified from being able to inform a good opinion. We have watched Edwards in all his various levels and sub appearance for the first team. We watch shitloads of senior first team football. We are able to combine that knowledge to to form an opinion of what might happen if Edwards plays for the first team, because a) he has played against bigger, physical opponents lots of times, he has demonstrated an ability to cope with that, he will actually get better protection at first team level from refs, he will also be able to interact with even better quality players than he has so far in his career.

Can you acknowledge that?

We are not saying Edwards success at all youth levels merits him replacing a current first team player every week from now on, or guarantees he will be a future success, we are saying based on the fairly unique skill set we have seen him consistently display for years (and many of us have seen a lot more of him than Youtube clips, most of us have seen him play many full games at various different levels) and the talent pool we see every week currently available for the first team, the circumstances of this game - i.e. the Micky mouse cup - we believe Edwards is well worth a seat on the bench for this occasion. (we might say that for more games, but we are certainly saying it for this game).



But I don't have limited information on Edwards. And I could say the same to you. Unless you know the real reasons Poch is excluding Edwards and it's something we all don't know, you would be stupid to back his judgement blindly.

It's not arrogance, any more than posting any opinion that disagrees wit anything Poch or any other football coach or administrator makes is.

I trust the coach over anyone else. He manages the first team, he talks to the junior coaches, he keeps a keen eye on youth. If Poch thinks Edwards isn't ready, I trust his judgement over yours and anyone elses. Personally I think Edwards would get physically dominated in the PL. Its unforgiving. Just saying. That could set him back years.

 

[taidgh]

Quoting players in a league which is renowned for not giving youth much of chance isn't really proving much.

Ouseman Dembele was 17, Mbappe was 17, Messi was 18 (16 proper debut in a friendly), Pogba was 18, Neymar 17.

Not to point out the blindingly obvious, but Spurs (and therefore Edwards) do't play in any of those leagues.

 

[Trix]

You really doubt this ?

Can you prove it's not?

I'm sure the odd person on here will have some anecdote about some kid they've heard of who was given a debut at some stage and it went badly, he emotionally collapsed never to be seen on a pitch again. But if we do the maths, I'm pretty sure we'd find those circumstances are pretty rare, possibly just prove the kid wasn't right for the profession anyway and probably wouldn't have had a career anyway, and there are thousands more who might have perfectly decent careers, or their careers would have started a hell of a lot sooner and been easier, if their clubs had just given them games instead buying hum drum players to pad out squads and block their path.

Although I don't completely disagree, I'm not the one saying "giving them a chance too early can set them back is bullshit", nor am I saying " far far more are ruined by not getting early chances" so it's not on me to prove anything.

As I say in every one of these debates(and I'm yet to see one post where I'm proved wrong), not one young player that we have let go in the last 10 years, heck even 15 years has gone on to prove the decision to move them on was wrong. So either they weren't up to the required standard or didn't have enough drive in them to push on after being let go. Other clubs might have young players come back to bite them on the arse, but we don't.

Quoting players in a league which is renowned for not giving youth much of chance isn't really proving much.

Ouseman Dembele was 17, Mbappe was 17, Messi was 18 (16 proper debut in a friendly), Pogba was 18, Neymar 17.

The only players there you can really compare to Edwards size wise are Neymar who played wide which is totally different to playing central physically speaking, and Messi who was pumped full of growth enhancement, drugs in order to bulk him up. Again though it's not about size it's about core strength, that Marcus is lacking.

Fwiw I am very much of the opinion he will make it, but as anyone who has coached kids(at any age) can testify....They all develop at different rates both mentally and physically. What may be right for one may be too early or too demanding for another. Doesn't mean they both won't get to exactly the same place in the end, just that one might take a little longer to get there.

 

[Larryjanta]

Another Dick bag not understanding the use of the Spam rating.

Nah, we just have different interpretations of what spamming a thread means and, for me, yours was dictionary definition. Fully accept I'm a dick bag though so you got me on that part, just the latter than you're wrong on which is an improvement for you