Mauricio Pochettino accuses Tottenham players of showing lack of passion

garryparkerschest

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See "taking away the result" really means taking away the poor performance does it not?

If we hadn't have conceded two stupid goals, then we would in theory have won two - nil? You cannot separate one from the other, and again i say we led twice to a team who had lost as many games at home as Fulham last season, this despite us signing another plethora of players.

That result alone should tell anyone that the players may be better than the performance but the system simply is beyond them. I think myself that the system Poch wants to play is beyond most of their talent.


We'll have to agree to disagree there because I felt there was a lot of promise in the game regarding the offensive play.

If you look at the defending, playing Dier at right back just doesn't suit him but we had no one else available as I think Naughton was suspended.

I personally think the future will be rosy. We should look ahead and not regurgitate the past because that will not get us anywhere.

I'm confident that we will reach our objecjectives of Champions League football in the next 2 years.

Brave call but someone has to sound confident!!

PS - I have no Tube ticket on me.
 

goughie1966

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Venables, George fucking Graham and even Juande fucking Ramos = ALL more "successful" than the guy you're saying is our most successful manager since our best ever manager.

Football didn't start when the Champions fucking League started, and finishing FOURTH is very much NOT SUCCESSFUL. You're talking about a fucking football team, you know, football, a sport? The ONLY "success" = Winning something. Even my 7 year old daughter is aware of that, so why are so few supposed 'Grown-ups' incapable of grasping that simple notion?
Qualification for the CL is the new trophy. Not winning the FA cup or worthless cup.

I'm old enough to remember watching us beat City in the cup final. It was a massive event at the time. The world watched. But times have changed. I can't remember the last cup final I watched.

I'd love us to win it again but I'd take 4th place over any trophy.
 

Barry Mead

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QPR may have been poor but I still think it was a performance of great promise. It had been a while since we put a team to the sword. I use to find performances under AVB very tedius and slow despite hoping he'd change but it never happened.

Under Sherwood it was a bit better but I see some promising signs under Poch and I think he'll get it right. I like his philosophy and with the right players with the right mentality things will get better.


Regarding the window, I think it was sensible window, the one that took us back was last summers where sold Elvis and brought a bunch of beetles, dwarfing in the quality sold.

I still believe in Eriksen and Lamela, as I think once they are use to Poch's methods, they'll get better.

I just didn't understand the purchase of Soldado, he's never had the physical attributes to be a success in England. (I hope he proves me wrong)

The rest of the signings didn't improve the first team, which I believe what signing new players should do.

This Transfer window has improved the first team, it's improved the performances of Rose by having Davies there. Stambouli will get better and think has the right mentality to improve the team.

Fazio will eventually become a first teamer with Vertonghen, otherwise I can't see the reason why he was brought.
I think against QPR we showed a lot of good work off the ball, we worked hard and when players are making the runs and finding space it makes it a lot easier to gain meaningful possession. My only real concern was that our defence looks wafer thin and I imagine had QPR managed to get any real attacks going we might have lost our dominance. Fortunately they didn't and we won well

As for the window I actually think it was awful, nothing against the players signed just that I thought we needed at least one quality first choice CB and failed to get one. I think Dier in time can develop and Fazio is a decent enough cover CB but we haven't addressed the first team need. We knew Walker had to have an op and yet we never got a starter quality RB. LB I think Davies can develop into a solid PL LB but equally he still has developing to do
Midfield I can't say much about Stambouli as I don't know much, but our need was for a playmaker and we didn't get one. We also needed a quality left sided attacker and a quality striker but didn't get one, in addition we never addressed the lack of any depth of character, drive, desire on leadership in the squad.

I actually felt last summers transfer "failure" wasn't in getting too many new players but not enough, not getting a play maker last season, or a left sided player or a left back all were factors in not getting the best out of the players we did get.

I think Eriksen, Capoue and Lamela will improve simply by getting more games but having better players around would help more and I think Soldado and Paulinho need certain players around to get the best out of them. I don't think Chiriches is cut out for the PL and despite a couple of goals this season I still think Chadli is at best a cover player
Personally I don't think Rose has improved, I think he is still a hit and hope player when we attack and as a defender he's awful. As for Fazio I just don't see him as a regular first teamer, but I think he's decent enough to be a strong cover player that you can live with for a run of games if your first choice is out. I really hope he proves me wrong but I can't say I was ever that impressed with him at Seville. We could certainly do with him really doing well and with Verts getting back to his Ajax and first season with us form. If they don't I think our defence will continue being a big weakness and not really the best breeding ground for Dier to develop
 

Khilari

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Putting it in context it's rather simple. We have failed to score at home against Liverpool and WBA as well as away in the EPL.

We drew a game up in Sunderland after leading twice. Only Fulham lost more home games than Sunderland last season.

There's some context for you.

4-2-3-1 isn't working and never did under AVB. According to the stats i read (which may not be correct) we had one single shot on goal in ninety minutes of football against a side that had never won in the PL at WHL, and were win less in thirteen?

Even the most unluckiest of unlucky sides ridden with bad luck, playing a second eleven who are unlucky to have been selected would put up a better effort than what we have seen in Sundays game.

I am not blaming Poch, but there is something very wrong at the club that is producing performances like those so far this season.

We lack leadership, passion, drive and determination, something that cannot be trained into any footballer. Another poor transfer window, and another season of "rebuilding" or "transition" now appears on the horizon.

If you saw anything different happening on the pitch on Sunday that has not been seen at WHL over the past two seasons then please enlighten me.
No-one is disputing the rubbish performance vs WBA. It's just your doom & gloom attitude. Bad doesn't equal "terrible, it's all over" in the same way good doesn't equal "we're going to win the league". That is context. Here are some positives:

We actually played quite well against Sunderland and were it not for the woodwork would have 2 goals further up. Dembele looked brilliant in that game, something he hasn't done in a long time and Erik Lamela played very well away from home, something he has been criticised for not doing previously. Also, Sunderland were terrible last season. Then Poyet came along and worked miracles and they actually look a decent outfit.

Eric Dier looks an excellent player at the age of 20. Chadli is starting to show flashes of what he can do. Lamela is improving. Hugo is staying (for now). We still have Jan to come back in and potentially Fazio to partner him.

I'm not going to debate formations and tactics with you, because that's not the point of this conversation - the point is that some bad performances should not invoke such a strong toys out of the pram response.

I do think we'll get beaten by The Scum and beaten well. But they have better players at present and have spent well on proven world class players in the past two summers, eclipsing our spending, so I don't expect anything else.

Cummon - get behind the team and hope - there are still 30 league games to go!
 

Gaz_Gammon

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Poch's 'system' doesn't exactly require talent does it?

Anyway, our team/squad is more talented than Southampton's was for instance - and they managed it.

You think?

The 3-1 part of the system relies on pace and talent to thread a pass and score the odd goal.

It would be odd for forwards to actually score a goal.
 

Gaz_Gammon

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No-one is disputing the rubbish performance vs WBA. It's just your doom & gloom attitude. Bad doesn't equal "terrible, it's all over" in the same way good doesn't equal "we're going to win the league". That is context. Here are some positives:

We actually played quite well against Sunderland and were it not for the woodwork would have 2 goals further up. Dembele looked brilliant in that game, something he hasn't done in a long time and Erik Lamela played very well away from home, something he has been criticised for not doing previously. Also, Sunderland were terrible last season. Then Poyet came along and worked miracles and they actually look a decent outfit.

Eric Dier looks an excellent player at the age of 20. Chadli is starting to show flashes of what he can do. Lamela is improving. Hugo is staying (for now). We still have Jan to come back in and potentially Fazio to partner him.

I'm not going to debate formations and tactics with you, because that's not the point of this conversation - the point is that some bad performances should not invoke such a strong toys out of the pram response.

I do think we'll get beaten by The Scum and beaten well. But they have better players at present and have spent well on proven world class players in the past two summers, eclipsing our spending, so I don't expect anything else.

Cummon - get behind the team and hope - there are still 30 league games to go!

Eric Dier looks an excellent player at the age of 20
He is evidently no right back, but we did have an experienced right back on the bench, who was slated for playing at left back last season. Funny how when roles are reversed the criticism is not?

I do think we'll get beaten by The Scum and beaten well. But they have better players at present and have spent well on proven world class players in the past two summers
Did you see them play Villa and West Ham? To say that they have "World Class" players is like suggesting that King Herod would make a good babysitter.


I am not all doom and gloom, but know when i can see genuine improvement in a football team. I have yet to see the Spurs side moving in the right direction, unless it's yet another sideways one across our back four. We are very good at that of late.

No doubt our coach will do well but not in a 4-2-3-1 system with these players at his disposal. I'd just like to see us score an odd goal here or there, just one to start with, not being greedy you understand.
 

garryparkerschest

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No-one is disputing the rubbish performance vs WBA. It's just your doom & gloom attitude. Bad doesn't equal "terrible, it's all over" in the same way good doesn't equal "we're going to win the league". That is context. Here are some positives:

We actually played quite well against Sunderland and were it not for the woodwork would have 2 goals further up. Dembele looked brilliant in that game, something he hasn't done in a long time and Erik Lamela played very well away from home, something he has been criticised for not doing previously. Also, Sunderland were terrible last season. Then Poyet came along and worked miracles and they actually look a decent outfit.

Eric Dier looks an excellent player at the age of 20. Chadli is starting to show flashes of what he can do. Lamela is improving. Hugo is staying (for now). We still have Jan to come back in and potentially Fazio to partner him.

I'm not going to debate formations and tactics with you, because that's not the point of this conversation - the point is that some bad performances should not invoke such a strong toys out of the pram response.

I do think we'll get beaten by The Scum and beaten well. But they have better players at present and have spent well on proven world class players in the past two summers, eclipsing our spending, so I don't expect anything else.

Cummon - get behind the team and hope - there are still 30 league games to go!
Nice to have a someone with a positive outlook.

I'm the same and think our pint is half full rather than half empty.

From what I saw against Sunderland and QPR, I think there's a lot promise there and the fans just need to be patient.

I agree with Gaz regarding Dier, bar a couple of goals, you can tell he's not a natural right back and I would play Naughten there.

And being the eternal optimist, which I think every football fan is, I think we'll get a positive result against Arsenal.

They just lost to Southampton team with a sprinkle of first teamers. I just hope with Welbeck going to them, doesn't come back haunt us.

COYS, To Dare is to Do and all that jazz.
 

Khilari

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He is evidently no right back, but we did have an experienced right back on the bench, who was slated for playing at left back last season. Funny how when roles are reversed the criticism is not?



Did you see them play Villa and West Ham? To say that they have "World Class" players is like suggesting that King Herod would make a good babysitter.


I am not all doom and gloom, but know when i can see genuine improvement in a football team. I have yet to see the Spurs side moving in the right direction, unless it's yet another sideways one across our back four. We are very good at that of late.

No doubt our coach will do well but not in a 4-2-3-1 system with these players at his disposal. I'd just like to see us score an odd goal here or there, just one to start with, not being greedy you understand.
Wow. It probably always rains on you, the condom always splits and the eggs always break.

We will play rubbish sometimes. We are tottenham. Not Real Madrid or Barcelona. IF Pochettino is the right man it will take him several months to get us playing his way. If he's not the right man to improve us, it is astonishing you seek to draw conclusions after 8 games.

I'm sorry you feel this way. You seem like a nice guy who's intelligent but, I'm afraid happiness from Tottenham will not come your way any time soon.
 

garryparkerschest

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Wow. It probably always rains on you, the condom always splits and the eggs always break.

We will play rubbish sometimes. We are tottenham. Not Real Madrid or Barcelona. IF Pochettino is the right man it will take him several months to get us playing his way. If he's not the right man to improve us, it is astonishing you seek to draw conclusions after 8 games.

I'm sorry you feel this way. You seem like a nice guy who's intelligent but, I'm afraid happiness from Tottenham will not come your way any time soon.
I've got a lot of time for Gaz to and respect his opinion even if I don't entirely agree with them.

Top man on this forum and goes to games and usually gives great and thoughtful opinions on everything which is Tottenham.
 

Khilari

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Thanks GPC - noted. Gaz seems very knowledgeable. I hope he can enjoy himself more when it comes to Tottenham because I don't think anything is going to change rapidly with us any time soon.
 

Main Man

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You think?

The 3-1 part of the system relies on pace and talent to thread a pass and score the odd goal.

It would be odd for forwards to actually score a goal.
Well we have pace in abundance, but Southampton weren't exactly loaded with pace in the forward areas were they?

I wouldn't have had any of their forward four in our team either.

And they did lose to us twice, and finished a million points behind us.

I just don't understand why we are looking to adopt a philosophy which our team has proven is actually not that successful.

Athletico Madrid are the only team who play the pressing game effectively, and they play 4-5-1.

This very formation we are using, from an offensive point of view, is beyond our players. AVB showed that, and Poch is refusing to accept it - even though its painfully obvious.
 

Main Man

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IF Pochettino is the right man it will take him several months to get us playing his way. If he's not the right man to improve us, it is astonishing you seek to draw conclusions after 8 games.
He got Southampton playing "his way" from the moment he took over.

This notion that its going to take a long, long time is simply inaccurate.

Tim Sherwood showed our players could adapt to different systems also, so the blame lies firmly at Poch's door.

Even after only eight games.
 

Gaz_Gammon

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Well we have pace in abundance, but Southampton weren't exactly loaded with pace in the forward areas were they?

I wouldn't have had any of their forward four in our team either.

And they did lose to us twice, and finished a million points behind us.

I just don't understand why we are looking to adopt a philosophy which our team has proven is actually not that successful.

Athletico Madrid are the only team who play the pressing game effectively, and they play 4-5-1.

This very formation we are using, from an offensive point of view, is beyond our players. AVB showed that, and Poch is refusing to accept it - even though its painfully obvious.

You think clubs are lining up to buy any of ours? Do agree through that trying to force players into a system that evidently is not working is pointless.
 

Khilari

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He got Southampton playing "his way" from the moment he took over.

This notion that its going to take a long, long time is simply inaccurate.

Tim Sherwood showed our players could adapt to different systems also, so the blame lies firmly at Poch's door.

Even after only eight games.
Maybe our players aren't good enough?
 

Main Man

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Maybe our players aren't good enough?
Chadli, Lamela, Paulinho, Soldado, Eriksen have all excelled at a level similar to ourselves, if not higher, so I don't think it is solely on the players

I think we have to look a lot closer to home.
 

Khilari

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For a club aspiring to break the top 4, I'd say that this season only Lamela has played very well. Chadli has been much better (brilliant vs QPR), but hasn't excelled in other games whilst Paulinho hasn't yet shone under 4 managers (AVB, TS, Scolari, MP) nor has Soldado justified his price tag.

So they either have not adapted to EPL style of play or are simply not better than players in teams ahead of us.
 
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