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Mauricio Pochettino: Spurs want Premier League, not domestic cups

Gassin's finest

C'est diabolique
May 12, 2010
37,355
87,828
I think we should sort our home form out before we start talking about winning anything, let alone the fooking Champions League.

He's only saying what everyone at the big clubs thinks, but I'd rather he hadn't said anything tbh.
 

DJS

A hoonter must hoont
Dec 9, 2006
31,261
21,760
If you think he has no intention of taking the cups seriously then your opinion kind of contradicts his attitude to the FA Cup last season, nothing was stopping him from fielding a weakened team going into the latter rounds of the comp but against Millwall and Fulham he went with a strong side even though we were in the midst of a title challenge which is obviously a priority. So whether you think that he has implied that he's ready to throw the cup competitions is rather irrelevant when there's evidence which suggests that he did the opposite.

I didn't say he should use Arsenal as an example, it's just my opinion that you can point towards the Arsenal example and still make the same point about aims of the club. People seem to think that winning the FA Cup will do wonders only need to look at Arsenal as a "successful" side who have won trophies recently.

You're just so reasonable sometimes you make me SICK lol :p:p
 

PeeEyeEmPee

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
1,925
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You are like the Sun and other media sources who have either tried to interprete Poch's words to suit an agenda or else like them you haven't a clue.

Winning the cup like Wigan is all well and good, something we want as well and I know Poch will be doing his damnest to win, but unlike Wigan at that time, we also have other higher priorities which will dictate how we go about it. That is what in my opinion, the sentiment Poch was trying to express with his Wigan example
if your interpretation is indeed correct, it would make the reference to Wigan even less relevant to anything than it already is.

and I'm the one that doesn't have a clue....
 

Bobbins

SC's 14th Sexiest Male 2008
May 5, 2005
21,548
45,031
You are like the Sun and other media sources who have either tried to interprete Poch's words to suit an agenda or else like them you haven't a clue.

Winning the cup like Wigan is all well and good, something we want as well and I know Poch will be doing his damnest to win, but unlike Wigan at that time, we also have other higher priorities which will dictate how we go about it. That is what in my opinion, the sentiment Poch was trying to express with his Wigan example

Pretty sure they were fighting relegation at the time!
 

PeeEyeEmPee

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
1,925
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You have literally just described a title challenge.

Every man and his dog from fans to pundits have said that Spurs need to win a trophy in order to cement them in the history books or something along those lines which includes the FA Cup, I'm using Arsenal as an example to measure their progression and saying that we need to push on as a club and aim for more than what Arsenal have achieved. For me comparing us with Arsenal is a really good example, they are the perfect illustration of a club who have rested on their laurels and stagnated when seemingly their board are happy with them winning domestic cups which is seen as progression.

But this is the point isn't it, picking an under-strength side is prioritizing the competitions which is exactly what he's referring to in his statement, albeit last season he had to pick a team going into the final group game against Monaco and then a rival against Chelsea which due to injuries had to be prioritized. He then went and picked a full strength side against Gent in which is a lesser competition than the CL which shows you that circumstances and a huge dose of luck dictate what teams he picks.
ok so I'll put it a different way. we were 10 points behind Chelsea when we played both Fulham and Millwall. it would've required an almost unprecedented fuck up by them for us to win the league. in fact, we were much closer to Man U in 6th than we were to Chelsea. that isn't a title challenge in my eyes, or in the eyes of everyone that declared the title race over at or before that point.

for a club like us that has won nothing for so long, we do need to win things. and no a League Cup or FA Cup on its own won't solve all that, but would be a start. if nothing else, to help create the habit of winning. the next team that wins the CL as their first trophy will be the first one, and apart from Leicester's miracle season or Jack Walker out-spending everyone 20+ years ago it doesn't tend to happen in the PL. these comments don't give the impression to me that we'll be making anything more than a token effort in the domestic cups, which some will be perfectly fine with and others not so. I happen to be in the latter.

Arsenal's stagnation started way before they started winning FA Cups again. they went nearly a decade without winning anything, not being competitive in either the league or CL, and their board seemingly being happy with them finishing in the top 4 and making their customary R16 exit each year. I don't know that anyone is claiming these recent cup wins to be a sign of progress though, hence the constant sense of crisis surrounding the club these days.
 

PeeEyeEmPee

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
1,925
3,125
Is this whole thread based on this interview

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41312257

He is saying he wants to prioritise the domestic League and Champions League over the domestic cups, isn't that the exact same as very other elite team in Europe ?
except they still go and win them anyway, and don't hold up major exceptions to the rule such as Wigan as examples of why they might not be able to
 

Klinsmannesque

Well-Known Member
Jul 26, 2013
900
4,665
Im bored of this 'we have to win something, anything' mindset of fans and media. He's right to prioritse the competitions that actually make a difference - you think Harry Kane will look back on a career of 1 league cup and 1 FA cup satisfied? No chance. These players are in it for the big prizes, thats a consequence on the mindset he's instilled in the squad.

And with the press, whats it matter anyway. It used to be 'until Spurs are in Europe they will always be a feeder club'. Then it was 'they arent a CL team so how can they expect to keep their players'. Now its 'they have to win something to keep their players' or 'they have to pay big wages'. If we go and win the league and double everyones salary then it will be 'they need to win the CL to keep their stars'. Press generally don't want us to achieve, too many alterior motives and too many possible big articles of stars leaving.
 

longtimespur

Well-Known Member
Sep 10, 2014
5,830
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I would rather win the League and the CL than the FA cup or the "Caraboa" cup.

What's different to Poch's statement?

EDIT......Oh and I'll mention Wigan too:LOL:
 

worcestersauce

"I'm no optimist I'm just a prisoner of hope
Jan 23, 2006
26,894
45,042
There's an important point people are missing here, Poch says he wants to win the Premier league and the discussion is whether he should or shouldn't prioritise that over the domestic cup, two years ago the papers and everyone else would just be laughing at the idea of us even challenging for the title.
 

Gaz_Gammon

Well-Known Member
Apr 16, 2005
16,047
18,013
I saw absolutely nothing wrong in what he said, sounded like he said, or indeed didn't say.

The mans's absolutely correct in prioritizing the PL & CL. The FA and Cardboard Cup should be considered as being a success if won by the likes of Everton, WBA, Stoke and Huddersfield.

We have loftier ambitions and management than those clubs.
 

Lighty64

I believe
Aug 24, 2010
10,400
12,476
Poch can't afford to not win something.

The thing is with both the league and the FA Cups, unless you get the good draws, or the breaks when you face the bigger clubs in the cups you lose, then your out.

I mean tonight we come up against Barnsley, what if they manage to stick XI men behind the ball all match like Swansea, and get the breaks. We then face a penalty shootout and their keeper gets it right, and we go out. We then go into our next match not very fresh, have to rest Dembele as he struggles to play 2 matches a week, we also might have put out a weaker team due to knocks, and it cost us v Wet Spam, will you be happy?
 

Bobbins

SC's 14th Sexiest Male 2008
May 5, 2005
21,548
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The thing is with both the league and the FA Cups, unless you get the good draws, or the breaks when you face the bigger clubs in the cups you lose, then your out.

I mean tonight we come up against Barnsley, what if they manage to stick XI men behind the ball all match like Swansea, and get the breaks. We then face a penalty shootout and their keeper gets it right, and we go out. We then go into our next match not very fresh, have to rest Dembele as he struggles to play 2 matches a week, we also might have put out a weaker team due to knocks, and it cost us v Wet Spam, will you be happy?

What if none of those many obscure things happen, we put out a decent side and take the competitions seriously, and get to win a trophy for the first time in a decade? Would you be happy?

As long as we finish in the top four to me nothing else matters - we're not going to win the league, we're not going to win the CL, but we could quite possibly win the League or FA Cup.

For a team that never wins anything, and a young squad who need to taste success in order to gain a winning mentality, that would be extremely valuable. Not to mention the fans actually getting something to celebrate.
 

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2012
38,247
104,143
ok so I'll put it a different way. we were 10 points behind Chelsea when we played both Fulham and Millwall. it would've required an almost unprecedented fuck up by them for us to win the league. in fact, we were much closer to Man U in 6th than we were to Chelsea. that isn't a title challenge in my eyes, or in the eyes of everyone that declared the title race over at or before that point.

for a club like us that has won nothing for so long, we do need to win things. and no a League Cup or FA Cup on its own won't solve all that, but would be a start. if nothing else, to help create the habit of winning. the next team that wins the CL as their first trophy will be the first one, and apart from Leicester's miracle season or Jack Walker out-spending everyone 20+ years ago it doesn't tend to happen in the PL. these comments don't give the impression to me that we'll be making anything more than a token effort in the domestic cups, which some will be perfectly fine with and others not so. I happen to be in the latter.

Arsenal's stagnation started way before they started winning FA Cups again. they went nearly a decade without winning anything, not being competitive in either the league or CL, and their board seemingly being happy with them finishing in the top 4 and making their customary R16 exit each year. I don't know that anyone is claiming these recent cup wins to be a sign of progress though, hence the constant sense of crisis surrounding the club these days.

We were in a title challenge according to our coach, the players and the pundits, a 10 point gap has been overturned before in the Premiership and it's only natural to think that the players were confident in turning over that gap. In your eyes you may not see that as a title challenge maybe because there was a huge gap between us and Chelsea but everything points towards us challenging for the title. Either way it's neither here nor there, the league obviously was a distraction for us and if you don't want to admit that we were challenging for the title we were still challenging for a Champions League place which again could have been used an excuse to play our strongest team in the league whilst we rested players in the cup.

Again, those comments don't back up the reality, the reality is Pochettino's teams have been picked due to circumstance and luck and we've reached the latter stages of the domestic cup twice since he's been in charge. It's not as if we've gone out in the 3rd or 4th round each season we've been in the competition, he has tried to win them and has put out teams he considers strong enough to win those matches if the circumstance is allows him to.

Yeah...I don't really want to get drawn too much into Arsenal because we're digressing, the point is that you can make a direct comparison in our aims and objectives, not so much blaming the stagnation on the FA cup wins, more that it's a lesson if you set your stall out just to aim for mediocrity in which I feel that the cups are compared to the League and CL.
 
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PeeEyeEmPee

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
1,925
3,125
you keep referring to focusing solely on the domestic cups, which is not an argument I or anyone else on here is making.

the pundits, media, bookies, most of our fans and most football fans in general all declared the PL over as a contest very early in the New Year. if you thought differently, then we'll just have to agree to disagree, which I'm more than happy to do.

I've not really been happy with our approach to what we consider the "minor" cups for a few years now, going back to before Pochettino arrived, but definitely including his time here, regardless of the strength of the lineups in a handful of specific games. we could've made a better fist of the Europa League over the last few seasons, and doing so would've made a big difference to our current coefficient as well as getting us into the CL if we won it. I don't think we've been as good as we could've in the domestic cups either. these trophies seem to be considered to be beneath us, yet we're not good enough to seriously contend for the bigger ones. I get that not everyone is bothered about winning these, but I definitely would like to. I'm not necessarily criticising Pochettino if he's not that concerned about them, it's just disappointing that he appears not to think we can go for those and still achieve our greater objectives, like other big clubs do.
 

Lighty64

I believe
Aug 24, 2010
10,400
12,476
What if none of those many obscure things happen, we put out a decent side and take the competitions seriously, and get to win a trophy for the first time in a decade? Would you be happy?

As long as we finish in the top four to me nothing else matters - we're not going to win the league, we're not going to win the CL, but we could quite possibly win the League or FA Cup.

For a team that never wins anything, and a young squad who need to taste success in order to gain a winning mentality, that would be extremely valuable. Not to mention the fans actually getting something to celebrate.

the reason teams like Manure and Sheik City get to play in finals is they have plenty of depth in their squad, and can afford to pay players to sit on the bench for 100k + a week, we don't.

if we can put a strong enough team out I'd be happy, but I'd not risk anyone that are hard to replace from the squad, ie Kane, Eriksen and Toby. injury to them means League form struggles and I would like to see us at least get in the top 2 of the CL group.

most of what I said most probably wouldn't happen, but sometimes you got to stop that chance of it happening. how would you feel if we risked those 3 players v Barnsley and lost 1 of them for the season?

also with playing at Wembley this season Poch has to manage the burn out different to last season, and playing players for a possible 60 matches with most of the squad also playing international matches too. this season is most probably the most important 1 to get in to the CL, it could make a massive difference to the sponsors and naming rights. going full out to win the Carabao Cup which might effect our end of season finish could cost millions.
 
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