Mauricio Pochettino

[Donki]

I dont think you can compare Southampton as a club to us, I really don't mean that disrespectfully. There is a limit on how big and successful they can be in the near future, we have a massive vision for the next 5 years. There is the new stadium, a young very talented squad, were in the Capital and we do have money to spend. So I dont think its fair to say he jumped at Southapton so he will jump on us. We have the capacity to allow Poch to be a successful manager its just about how long he will remain happy enough to stay.

Having said that IF United did pull out their big red cock and wave it in Poch face he IS bound to at least consider it, and I wouldn't hate him for it. I do beleive however he would say no, he is intelligent enough to know that at his age there is no reason for him to go, if he continues the way he has he will get offers again. Personally I dont think he is United's first choice, from gauging their fans reaction I would say he would get about 50-60% full support. Its funny Fergie was very similar to Poch in some ways, he demands work rate, he puts faith in youth and he doesnt seem to be a manager you want to fall out with.

 

[Donki]

They've been throwing money at the problem since Fergie left.... lots and lots of money.

Agree. They wont get MP. Pep is going to City by the sounds of it. Ancelotti said "no" apparently before opting for Bayern. And since Fergie they have had Moyes and LVG as managers.. so hardly attracting the "best" managers.....
Best players? would any of the worlds top players choose Man Utd now over the likes of City/Arsenal or any of the worlds other top clubs right now..? doubtful..

Well Moyes was picked by them, first choice and LVG ran out of Levy's office was he got their text, United are still one of the biggest clubs in the world, yes their reputation has taken a dent but I think they could compete for players. Look at De Gea.

 

[SpursManChris]

@rocklink, they were all questions, no opinions, so nothing to disagree with I'm afraid.

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

Well Moyes was picked by them, first choice and LVG ran out of Levy's office was he got their text, United are still one of the biggest clubs in the world, yes their reputation has taken a dent but I think they could compete for players. Look at De Gea.

Can't speak for everyone else, I was one who was well up for having LVG as our manager. However, looking at how things have transpired for him, and how well Poch has done since coming in, all I can say is, THANK YOU MAN UNITED!!

 

[Donki]

Can't speak for everyone else, I was one who was well up for having LVG as our manager. However, looking at how things have transpired for him, and how well Poch has done since coming in, all I can say is, THANK YOU MAN UNITED!!

I was the same as you, I wanted experience and a CV but am glad we got Poch in hind sight. Having said that I think currently United has the same problems we did with AVB, Sherwood and a spoilt lazy overpaid squad. Its clear from match days that Giggs and LVG dont get on, its also clear that LVG is trying to impliment a pressing game but the players arent buying into it. LVG just hasnt been able to get the buy in that Poch has got which is surely down to the age of our squad and the fact it is his own team working there and not one the club has given him.

Slowly the United fans are starting to turn on Giggs with most wanting both LVG and him out.

 

[worcestersauce]

But aren't you assuming that the players wouldn't have left anyway? Do you really think that Lallana's and Lovren's heads wouldn't have been turned by the very promising Liverpool? Luke Shaw by United? Just because Cortese remained as chairman? I doubt it, what was Cortese, best mates with all of the players?

No you are assuming they would and there is absolutely no precedent anywhere in which more than half the first team and all the best players decided to leave at the same time, it just doesn't happen.
They were told that the club wanted to sell them to realise it's assets and bring in cash for the new owner, that being the case there is not a coach of Pochottino's ambition in the world that would have stayed.
Please don't think I make assumptions, I always try to deal in reality and the reality is that though the players may well in time have looked to move on it wouldn't have been then and it wouldn't have been en masse, they didn't move because Cortese left, Cortese left because they were going to be sold, and he didn't leave because they were his mates and he was going to miss them either.

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

I was the same as you, I wanted experience and a CV but am glad we got Poch in hind sight. Having said that I think currently United has the same problems we did with AVB, Sherwood and a spoilt lazy overpaid squad. Its clear from match days that Giggs and LVG dont get on, its also clear that LVG is trying to impliment a pressing game but the players arent buying into it. LVG just hasnt been able to get the buy in that Poch has got which is surely down to the age of our squad and the fact it is his own team working there and not one the club has given him.

Slowly the United fans are starting to turn on Giggs with most wanting both LVG and him out.

Whilst I agree, on the whole, what I don't like is LVG's apparent unwillingness to accept any responsibility whatsoever for his part in the dross that his team are serving up. It's excuse after excuse, or not even answering questions & walking out of press a conference altogether.

I know this will annoy a fair few on here, but his unwillingness to accept any part in what's going wrong, very much reminds me of Mr Redknapp when facing questions after we threw away (consecutive) CL places in the league.

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

Its a new world gents. Time to settle in and see it all play out.

Last summer - Everton held onto Stones when Chelsea came in, and WBA held onto Berahino when we came in. Stoke bought Shaqiri - Stoke!?!?

Traditional "big" clubs can't force mid-table squads to sell, yet every club has enough money to persuade players to join, at the right price.

When you look at what has recently been the top-4: Arsenal, Chelsea, Man United, Man City - none stand head-and-shoulders above this league anymore. Chelsea and United look ready to fall off the pace - and Man City is about a year behind them. Now, all can go abroad and buy younger talent - but that comes with two very high costs. First, FA is looking to increase the number of HG players on each squad - buying foreign players will be limited. And, I think what we have seen in the last few seasons is the importance of squad continuity. Going out and replacing 4-5 starters will take time to build into a cohesive unit.

When you look at the clubs in EPL - no other club comes close to having the quality and youth of our squad. This is a squad that can largely play together for the next 4-5 years - and that is a massive advantage. Now, instead of selling/buying 6-7 players each summer, we can focus on bringing in younger players who can integrate over time, and we can use those funds to improve wages to be on par with the current top-4. We also have the new stadium coming on board - which will bring additional "prestige" to the club.

There are clubs with a better history - but I don't see any club right now with a brighter future than Spurs.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

Its a new world gents. Time to settle in and see it all play out.

Last summer - Everton held onto Stones when Chelsea came in, and WBA held onto Berahino when we came in. Stoke bought Shaqiri - Stoke!?!?

Traditional "big" clubs can't force mid-table squads to sell, yet every club has enough money to persuade players to join, at the right price.

When you look at what has recently been the top-4: Arsenal, Chelsea, Man United, Man City - none stand head-and-shoulders above this league anymore. Chelsea and United look ready to fall off the pace - and Man City is about a year behind them. Now, all can go abroad and buy younger talent - but that comes with two very high costs. First, FA is looking to increase the number of HG players on each squad - buying foreign players will be limited. And, I think what we have seen in the last few seasons is the importance of squad continuity. Going out and replacing 4-5 starters will take time to build into a cohesive unit.

When you look at the clubs in EPL - no other club comes close to having the quality and youth of our squad. This is a squad that can largely play together for the next 4-5 years - and that is a massive advantage. Now, instead of selling/buying 6-7 players each summer, we can focus on bringing in younger players who can integrate over time, and we can use those funds to improve wages to be on par with the current top-4. We also have the new stadium coming on board - which will bring additional "prestige" to the club.

There are clubs with a better history - but I don't see any club right now with a brighter future than Spurs.

I think this notion that teams are now able to hold onto their best players is vastly overplayed - West Brom and Everton will eventually sell Stones and Beharino because they will run down their contracts to the point it will be in the clubs best interest to get some money for them before their value completely depreciates. The new TV deal makes no difference in that respect as players will still want to move onto bigger clubs so they get bigger wages. Therefore the order of clubs will not change as the best players will still end up at the biggest clubs.

 

[whitesocks]

No you are assuming they would and there is absolutely no precedent anywhere in which more than half the first team and all the best players decided to leave at the same time, it just doesn't happen.
They were told that the club wanted to sell them to realise it's assets and bring in cash for the new owner, that being the case there is not a coach of Pochottino's ambition in the world that would have stayed.
Please don't think I make assumptions, I always try to deal in reality and the reality is that though the players may well in time have looked to move on it wouldn't have been then and it wouldn't have been en masse, they didn't move because Cortese left, Cortese left because they were going to be sold, and he didn't leave because they were his mates and he was going to miss them either.

I think many players wanted to leave as they knew MP was leaving.
And sure Southampton pretty much let them all go/cashed in.
But they got a good manager in and backed him - the project has continued as before.

Why Cortese left is not clear - possibly he felt he deserved at least part ownership for all his efforts.

 

[Mr Pink]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/sep/25/tottenham-mauricio-pochettino-respect-arsene-wenger

“Tottenham, for me, is a big job and it’s a dream to stay here like him [Wenger], to have the time [at Tottenham] that Arsène has had at Arsenal,” Pochettino said.

http://www.footballfancast.com/foot...-long-term-tottenham-plan#TsI0WQvAgW4hJMay.97

“It is our dream to grow with these players and to be clever. And every season to add some young players to refresh the team and maintain the motivation,”
“Here, we have a plan. It is important to set up all the bases, to arrive at the new stadium and build a strong squad.

“It is true that football is about winning games – but you have different ways to try to win games, win titles and achieve big things. The important thing is to be clear what your plan is.”

Case well and truly rested.

Cheers for that.

 

[worcestersauce]

I think many players wanted to leave as they knew MP was leaving.
And sure Southampton pretty much let them all go/cashed in.
But they got a good manager in and backed him - the project has continued as before.

Why Cortese left is not clear - possibly he felt he deserved at least part ownership for all his efforts.

That's the cart before the horse, the project changed, Cortese left because of it, he was running things
and the new owners stopped that because they wanted things done differently, at some point in the summer it became clear they had got it wrong and retrieved the situation but it is beginning to look like Koeman is less and less happy and I would not be surprised to see him leave come the summer.
I doubt he wants to start building a team every couple of years without being able to take it on to fruition any more than Pochottino does.

 

[heelspurs]

Glad you liked the post. I will concede that my emotions have twisted for fewer years than some so my creamy optimistic center is not as pessimistically coated. However, I must say that my post contained few, if any, "assumed facts". So I shall clarify.

Tremendous post, full of optimism but it does contain a few assumed facts and other things so I'll pick you up on some: You can't put "fired" into it. He resigned, that's a fact.

I can and I did. Moreover, I qualified it with the parenthetical note "or he was allowed to walk" under which 'resigning' would fall. I would say a very fair representation. Would you not? We can/may never know what truly happened (fired, constructively dismissed, not renewed, etc) but the outcome was the man to whom Poch felt loyal (according to his words) -was no longer there. In your mind was Mourinho 'mutually consented'? For the simple-minded, yes. But for the more insightful clearly Roman dropped the hammer. But the 'facts' are that it was mutual. Go with the 'facts' if you must.

And a club is much bigger than its chairman. Poch could have chosen to show loyalty to the part of the club which is immeasurably bigger than any one person or group (including the players) at the entire club; the fans.

In a few sentences you ask whether I have clear insight into Poch's mind. Very good point I will address directly later but similarly, do you have the right to impute your values onto him and then judge him accordingly? "Poch could" do many things but I am fairly certain that it is up to him to decide what they are and not you, me, or anyone else. Poch may never have professed his loyalty to the club or the fans. But by his own words he did feel a loyalty to Cortese and the situation played out as it did.

Do you honestly believe that he wouldn't have come to us anyway, if they didn't sell the players? Like I said, their heads would've been turned the following season. What manager would want to work with that if they had an easy get out, transferring to a bigger and better club? And how do we know we won't have that problem? If we fail to make top 4 and players want out the door, then what? Well we know what Levy does with unhappy players,
he sells them and so he should. Then what? Poch will 'chuck' a Southampton?

Players come and players go. To quote a very wise man "This is football"! I would trust that he is wise enough to understand this and to know which players he could get back onside and which would have to be moved. But I would also trust that if proper replacements are brought in the everyone could get on with it. Accordingly, I would expect that if there were a player upon whose hill Poch was willing to die that said player would not be moved on. If so, then disloyalty begets disloyalty.

When did I say it can't?

It shows that he's not 100% loyal.

Poch moved to us demonstrated ambition and I see no reason to believe that Poch's ambition will definitely end with us.

You explicitly did not but that was through the crafty use of 'weasel words'. But you more than implied it when you said these things amongst others. Do they strike a bell?

Great sentiment, but do you have some sort of insight into Poch's mind?

No, I claim no special conduit into Poch's mind. But it is telling that in a paragraph composed entirely of hypotheticals (even that sentence was about possible outcomes) you pick out a secondary phrase that I did not unambiguously qualify as such. The paragraph was about individual's inability to conceive of a mind unencumbered by their own constraints.

Actually, I have NO idea of what the "rightful pecking order of the PL"
is mostly because I've no idea what you mean by that. Can you expand?

No, but I will expound (not being pedantic, just like that word more). Big club bias, Big 6/5/4, CL clubs, money clubs, transfer/wage budget rankings, etc. Pretty simple actually. There was a mail to F365 a few weeks back that eloquently addressed this. Even supporters of 'small' clubs fall into this. Like the Leicester City debate that ranges and the default to 'they can't win it' though the evidence shows that they are not in a false position. They can beat anyone on the day. Similarly, all things are possible at a club like Spurs. Perhaps Poch sees this and this is what the players are to when they speak of 'changing the mindset'.

I love that sentence.

me too!

Things are great at the minute at our club and I really admire your optimism. But I do want to caution people from thinking it will last forever. We've been through great times before but has it lasted forever? I would've thought us more than any fans would've learnt our lesson by now. We get so used to things being at such a high level and we'll get more and more used to Poch and that's why it will be terrible if he left.
I think my point is best summarised as 'Hope for the best but prepare for the worst.' It will only hurt more if you don't.

Whether intended or not your first 4 sentences here are patronizing. You cautious words are perhaps warranted considering what your experiences may have been. But they are misdirected for me. Please understand that my optimism is not blind and I am aware of the banality of nothing lasting forever. Moreover, I never even implied that this good fortune/form will last any longer than the next game. To paraphrase a wise man, I never said it did.
But what I do know, and what you seem to be struggling to come to terms with, is that our efforts now are not dependent on what has happened in the past. This mindset is why I wanted Harry gone more than anything. It was clear that he saw Spurs in a certain way; the "Lads, it's Spurs" and the "you've never had it so good" way. F*ck him and all the pundits and their intractable mindset. Maybe it is the unconstrained ambition of an Argentinian that was needed to bust through these glass ceilings.
So everyone has a choice (and by no means is it binary): to enjoy the moment on its merits or constantly temper everything with cautions of past failures. I know which I am choosing and I prefer it without a side of "pissed-on cornflakes" so to speak.

EDIT: I took the time to develop a thoughtful and considered response. I have now had the time to read the subsequent responses from others and am starting to believe that you have no intention of seeing things a different way. To say that I regret taking the time would be understatement.

 

[GetSpurredOn]

I cannot see Pochettino wanting the Spurs job, at least not yet anyhow.
He seems, from what I have read, as a guy who just loves coaching, but without the media circus that surrounds the game.
How many interviews, outside of the usual pre-match routines, have you ever actually seen him give. He doesn't appear to court attention, and the one thing guaranteed at Utd, is masses of media attention.
Secondly, his footballing philosophy, building a squad with talented, technical youngsters, rather than quick fix big names, strikes me as a guy who wants to build a long term team. Too soon to give up on that in my opinion, things are just starting to show signs of taking shape. Some minor adjustments, a bit of mentoring and maturing, and this squad will be definitely knocking on the door at the top.

 

[heelspurs]

I cannot see Pochettino wanting the Spurs job, at least not yet anyhow.
He seems, from what I have read, as a guy who just loves coaching, but without the media circus that surrounds the game.
How many interviews, outside of the usual pre-match routines, have you ever actually seen him give. He doesn't appear to court attention, and the one thing guaranteed at Utd, is masses of media attention.
Secondly, his footballing philosophy, building a squad with talented, technical youngsters, rather than quick fix big names, strikes me as a guy who wants to build a long term team. Too soon to give up on that in my opinion, things are just starting to show signs of taking shape. Some minor adjustments, a bit of mentoring and maturing, and this squad will be definitely knocking on the door at the top.

Me either...shit job, shit fans, shit forums...uhhhhh. Hold it! On second thought I can 100% see him wanting that job.

 

[Shadydan]

You let SMC troll you all, for shame.

 

[Jospur]

I really don't see the point of this thread. The team is doing really well. We don't need negative vibes. I just wish this thread would disappear and we can focus our conversations on positive matters.

 

[heelspurs]

You let SMC troll you all, for shame.

Have to raise my hand on this one. Wish I had read his responses earlier and I could have saved a little face.

 

[SpursManChris]

I always try to deal in reality and the reality is that though the players may well in time have looked to move on it wouldn't have been then.

I'm glad you think you know that, but that's not dealing in reality is it? The reality is you don't know that, as unlikely as it might be. The reality is we have no idea why some players left. It is only really clear that Lallana, Shaw, Lovren and Lambert wanted to upgrade as it was well known that they were targeted. And it is those players which I think would have moved on regardless. The rest of the exits are not quite as clear. And I wasn't thinking you were making assumptions. I'm not sure how you got that from my post. I just asked the question, "aren't you assuming?" is what I said.

 

[worcestersauce]

I'm glad you think you know that, but that's not dealing in reality is it? The reality is you don't know that, as unlikely as it might be. The reality is we have no idea why some players left. It is only really clear that Lallana, Shaw, Lovren and Lambert wanted to upgrade as it was well known that they were targeted. And it is those players which I think would have moved on regardless. The rest of the exits are not quite as clear. And I'm not assuming anything either, I'm not sure how you got that from my post. I wasn't thinking you make assumptions, I just asked the question, "aren't you assuming?" is what I said.

Your question wasn't simple it was accusatory and as I said in my post, it was reality because more than half the team wanting or expecting to leave at the same time doesn't happen and moreover a club never ever lets them all go in the same window.
The fact that they did confirms that it was what the club wanted to do.
Not sure there is much more to say on this now without going round in circles.