Mauricio Pochettino

[SpursManChris]

United are still one of the biggest clubs in the world, yes their reputation has taken a dent but I think they could compete for players. Look at De Gea.

What about De Gea?

 

[SpursManChris]

Last summer - Everton held onto Stones when Chelsea came in, and WBA held onto Berahino when we came in. Stoke bought Shaqiri - Stoke!?!?

Clubs are hardly likely to get the best out of players if their heads are turned. I'm not sure its the best plan to hold onto head turned players, I think Levy's got that 100% right.

 

[rocklink]

Clubs are hardly likely to get the best out of players if their heads are turned. I'm not sure its the best plan to hold onto head turned players, I think Levy's got that 100% right.

Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesnt... The season we hold on modric , we ended up in higher position in the league ... This time everton is higher than chelsea...

 

[Stoof]

How the Poch has this reached 9 pages?

 

[MarkyP]

Well Moyes was picked by them, first choice and LVG ran out of Levy's office was he got their text, United are still one of the biggest clubs in the world, yes their reputation has taken a dent but I think they could compete for players. Look at De Gea.

What about De Gea? the fact he is still there? Wouldn't be if someone hadn't ballsed up the paper work...

 

[rawhide]

No you are assuming they would and there is absolutely no precedent anywhere in which more than half the first team and all the best players decided to leave at the same time, it just doesn't happen.
They were told that the club wanted to sell them to realise it's assets and bring in cash for the new owner, that being the case there is not a coach of Pochottino's ambition in the world that would have stayed.
Please don't think I make assumptions, I always try to deal in reality and the reality is that though the players may well in time have looked to move on it wouldn't have been then and it wouldn't have been en masse, they didn't move because Cortese left, Cortese left because they were going to be sold, and he didn't leave because they were his mates and he was going to miss them either.

Sorry to cast aspersions, but if this was the case, why didn't we get Schneiderlin...

 

[Donki]

What about De Gea? the fact he is still there? Wouldn't be if someone hadn't ballsed up the paper work...

What about De Gea?

Umm he signed a new contract? If United were a lower teir team now why would one of the best keepers in the world choose to stay when top qaukity keepers are very hard to come by?

 

[MarkyP]

Umm he signed a new contract? If United were a lower teir team now why would one of the best keepers in the world choose to stay when top qaukity keepers are very hard to come by?

So United get a fee for him in the summer when they sell him to Real Madrid.... do you really think he had a sudden change of heart and no longer wants to join Madrid and fully intends to stay at United? come on....

 

[Trix]

I think this notion that teams are now able to hold onto their best players is vastly overplayed - West Brom and Everton will eventually sell Stones and Beharino because they will run down their contracts to the point it will be in the clubs best interest to get some money for them before their value completely depreciates. The new TV deal makes no difference in that respect as players will still want to move onto bigger clubs so they get bigger wages. Therefore the order of clubs will not change as the best players will still end up at the biggest clubs.

The new TV deal will make more of a difference to those currently on the lower end of the income scale than it will to those at the top. All of a sudden

Glad you liked the post. I will concede that my emotions have twisted for fewer years than some so my creamy optimistic center is not as pessimistically coated. However, I must say that my post contained few, if any, "assumed facts". So I shall clarify.


I can and I did. Moreover, I qualified it with the parenthetical note "or he was allowed to walk" under which 'resigning' would fall. I would say a very fair representation. Would you not? We can/may never know what truly happened (fired, constructively dismissed, not renewed, etc) but the outcome was the man to whom Poch felt loyal (according to his words) -was no longer there. In your mind was Mourinho 'mutually consented'? For the simple-minded, yes. But for the more insightful clearly Roman dropped the hammer. But the 'facts' are that it was mutual. Go with the 'facts' if you must.


In a few sentences you ask whether I have clear insight into Poch's mind. Very good point I will address directly later but similarly, do you have the right to impute your values onto him and then judge him accordingly? "Poch could" do many things but I am fairly certain that it is up to him to decide what they are and not you, me, or anyone else. Poch may never have professed his loyalty to the club or the fans. But by his own words he did feel a loyalty to Cortese and the situation played out as it did.


Players come and players go. To quote a very wise man "This is football"! I would trust that he is wise enough to understand this and to know which players he could get back onside and which would have to be moved. But I would also trust that if proper replacements are brought in the everyone could get on with it. Accordingly, I would expect that if there were a player upon whose hill Poch was willing to die that said player would not be moved on. If so, then disloyalty begets disloyalty.




You explicitly did not but that was through the crafty use of 'weasel words'. But you more than implied it when you said these things amongst others. Do they strike a bell?


No, I claim no special conduit into Poch's mind. But it is telling that in a paragraph composed entirely of hypotheticals (even that sentence was about possible outcomes) you pick out a secondary phrase that I did not unambiguously qualify as such. The paragraph was about individual's inability to conceive of a mind unencumbered by their own constraints.


No, but I will expound (not being pedantic, just like that word more). Big club bias, Big 6/5/4, CL clubs, money clubs, transfer/wage budget rankings, etc. Pretty simple actually. There was a mail to F365 a few weeks back that eloquently addressed this. Even supporters of 'small' clubs fall into this. Like the Leicester City debate that ranges and the default to 'they can't win it' though the evidence shows that they are not in a false position. They can beat anyone on the day. Similarly, all things are possible at a club like Spurs. Perhaps Poch sees this and this is what the players are to when they speak of 'changing the mindset'.


me too!


Whether intended or not your first 4 sentences here are patronizing. You cautious words are perhaps warranted considering what your experiences may have been. But they are misdirected for me. Please understand that my optimism is not blind and I am aware of the banality of nothing lasting forever. Moreover, I never even implied that this good fortune/form will last any longer than the next game. To paraphrase a wise man, I never said it did.
But what I do know, and what you seem to be struggling to come to terms with, is that our efforts now are not dependent on what has happened in the past. This mindset is why I wanted Harry gone more than anything. It was clear that he saw Spurs in a certain way; the "Lads, it's Spurs" and the "you've never had it so good" way. F*ck him and all the pundits and their intractable mindset. Maybe it is the unconstrained ambition of an Argentinian that was needed to bust through these glass ceilings.
So everyone has a choice (and by no means is it binary): to enjoy the moment on its merits or constantly temper everything with cautions of past failures. I know which I am choosing and I prefer it without a side of "pissed-on cornflakes" so to speak.

EDIT: I took the time to develop a thoughtful and considered response. I have now had the time to read the subsequent responses from others and am starting to believe that you have no intention of seeing things a different way. To say that I regret taking the time would be understatement.

Great post, but unfortunately(for me) Google translate doesn't cater for thicko's so I just had to guess what some of it meant.

 

[worcestersauce]

Sorry to cast aspersions, but if this was the case, why didn't we get Schneiderlin...

Because we left it until he came back from the world cup before finalising a deal by which time, and particularly after they sold chambers, fans and Koeman had reacted and they realised that they had gone too far; that said if we'd paid what they were asking we'd no doubt have got him before they put the block on.
In that window they sold, Lovren, Lambert, Lallana, Shawe & Chambers and were in the process of selling Rodriguez and Schneiderlin, hardly a club looking to build a successful team.
One scenario for all this could be that the new owner who inherited the club when her father died was looking to sell the club, as was widely understood to be the case at the time, that being the case she wanted to realise her assets bring in a lot of cash and then sell but then realised that she was reducing the value of the club and so changed her mind; it could also be that she realised she could just do it all again and make another pile of cash in two years time, this is of course conjecture but the summer window may be interesting for them

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

The new TV deal will make more of a difference to those currently on the lower end of the income scale than it will to those at the top. All of a sudden

It will make a difference but I don't think it will be as big as is being speculated. At the end of the day teams who pay the biggest wages get the best players. The new TV deal isn't really going to change that.

 

[Trix]

It will make a difference but I don't think it will be as big as is being speculated. At the end of the day teams who pay the biggest wages get the best players. The new TV deal isn't really going to change that.

Yeah of course but now those lower down won't have to rely on buying complete unknowns or players from the lower leagues. They will also be able to give out MLS type almost designated player contracts to hold onto their better players. Of course the big sides will always have more money, but the % gap will be a lot closer than it was.

 

[Donki]

So United get a fee for him in the summer when they sell him to Real Madrid.... do you really think he had a sudden change of heart and no longer wants to join Madrid and fully intends to stay at United? come on....

HE may well go to Madrid, but he signed the contract, United didnt have to offer it to him and he didnt have to accept it. Manchester United are still one of the biggest clubs in England, if not the biggest IMO. Look at their comerical revenue and their fan base. We give off about City and Chelsea for being plastic and Arsnal for winning nothing, I HATE United (due to most of my friends supporting them) but we need to be honest with ourselves.

 

[worcestersauce]

HE may well go to Madrid, but he signed the contract, United didnt have to offer it to him and he didnt have to accept it. Manchester United are still one of the biggest clubs in England, if not the biggest IMO. Look at their comerical revenue and their fan base. We give off about City and Chelsea for being plastic and Arsnal for winning nothing, I HATE United (due to most of my friends supporting them) but we need to be honest with ourselves.

I agree Donki, Utd are bigger than anyone else and given the choice between say, West Ham and Utd no doubt a player would choose them but where before they would go to Utd or Chelsea knowing they probably won't get to play very much if at all, because the wages were massively higher they will now look seriously at West Ham for a little less money but they'll get to play and maybe even close the gap more with appearance and win bonus.
It's not the very best players it's the next level down who are still very good players that will make those choices in my humble opinion anyway.

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

I think the other thing that people should come to grips with - we are not a mid-table team.

From a talent perspective we are certainly a "top-6" squad - and on an upward trajectory. It is very likely that for the foreseeable future we are, in fact, a top-4 squad, capable of competing for league titles. We are growing both talent and revenue - so this is unlikely to be just a short-term boost.

If you were a player or manager and given the option between Arsenal and Man United (or Chelsea, or Man City) would you automatically choose one over another?

Players/Managers will always go where they can get paid, and where they can be successful.

Spurs have always been dubious on both accounts. But now, particularly for the players/manager who are here - they can see success. They feel very confident in the direction of the club from a competition standpoint. And, we are starting to see the players get paid - Kane has had multiple new contracts, Dier has a new contract, Rose, Alli, etc. A stable roster, with increased revenues allows Levy to adjust the wage structure higher - across the board.

The jump from Spurs to any club in England is now a very small jump, by any standards.

 

[SpursManChris]

You explicitly did not but that was through the crafty use of 'weasel words'. But you more than implied it when you said these things amongst others.

Perhaps, you see all the reasons, limitations, and constraints as to why this can't be done and you, or any other naysayer, train your focus thusly.

I see EVERY reason why Poch's ambition will end with us and why he will go on to become the Arsene Wenger or Alex Ferguson of Tottenham Hotspur and end his career with us. I don't see any reasons, limitations, or constraints as to why this can't be done, other than possible changing circumstances in the future. That is what I'm warning about.

I have now had the time to read the subsequent responses from others and am starting to believe that you have no intention of seeing things a different way.

I don't think we disagree do we? We are both optimistic and are both aware of the potential for things to change given the nature of the modern game.

But what I do know, and what you seem to be struggling to come to terms with, is that our efforts now are not dependent on what has happened in the past.

Uh nope, not me. Why would anyone think that our efforts now are dependent on what has happened in the past? That wouldn't make any sense. Harry thought this? Are you sure?

 

[SpursManChris]

You let SMC troll you all, for shame.

There's that VERY loose definition of "troll" again. I love how its defined by some as presenting a point of view.

 

[Shadydan]

There's that VERY loose definition of "troll" again. I love how its defined by some as presenting a point of view.

You're a troll, be proud Chris, be proud

 

[SpursManChris]

You're a troll, be proud Chris, be proud

Well yeah I am, but I think we're ALL trolls based on your definition, no?

 

[bceej]

How the Poch has this reached 9 pages?

SMC.