The Mauricio Pochettino thread

[RichieS]

I'm not surprised at all that we didn't beat them. It showed that Conte is a superior coach than Poch Ettinger. Even with a much depleted squad he's still able to get his tactics spot on to beat us. Poch is still too naive and inexperienced to win big or important games when it's required and it showed again how he couldn't see or deal with the typical Chelsea approach of stifling opposition and them hitting them on the counter. Poch should have setup to play with more width and not with such a crowded central midfield. This just played into Conte's game plan even more and with the clinical side that Chelsea are they got their goals with hardly any possession compared to us. You only need to watch the last 10 times we've played them to work out that's how they approach almost every game against us. So why didn't we have another game plan against them? Cos Poch isn't a good enough manager yet.. Sorry to say it but that's the simple truth. We could have put Son on and created more width, we didn't need both Wanyama and Dier under the circumstances but again it took him far too long to make a change, and when he did he perhaps took off the wrong player, even though Dier wasn't great either.. If Lamela doesn't come back we'll be seriously lacking width this season. And not getting another wide forward player will cost us, especially against defensive opponents who will set up to stifle is like Chelsea did.

What I don't get is why Poch thinks that the same game plan against Chelsea will somehow work after so many previous games of failure with that game plan..

It doesn't and it won't.

Is time to change the tactics up based on the opposition, not expect the same plan and tactics to somehow magically work on this occasion. We become to predictable and that's what Conte knew we would do.

Did I imagine us absolutely crushing them to prevent them overtaking our successive victories record last season?

 

[shelfboy68]

I'm not surprised at all that we didn't beat them. It showed that Conte is a superior coach than Poch Ettinger. Even with a much depleted squad he's still able to get his tactics spot on to beat us. Poch is still too naive and inexperienced to win big or important games when it's required and it showed again how he couldn't see or deal with the typical Chelsea approach of stifling opposition and them hitting them on the counter. Poch should have setup to play with more width and not with such a crowded central midfield. This just played into Conte's game plan even more and with the clinical side that Chelsea are they got their goals with hardly any possession compared to us. You only need to watch the last 10 times we've played them to work out that's how they approach almost every game against us. So why didn't we have another game plan against them? Cos Poch isn't a good enough manager yet.. Sorry to say it but that's the simple truth. We could have put Son on and created more width, we didn't need both Wanyama and Dier under the circumstances but again it took him far too long to make a change, and when he did he perhaps took off the wrong player, even though Dier wasn't great either.. If Lamela doesn't come back we'll be seriously lacking width this season. And not getting another wide forward player will cost us, especially against defensive opponents who will set up to stifle is like Chelsea did.

What I don't get is why Poch thinks that the same game plan against Chelsea will somehow work after so many previous games of failure with that game plan..

It doesn't and it won't.

Is time to change the tactics up based on the opposition, not expect the same plan and tactics to somehow magically work on this occasion. We become to predictable and that's what Conte knew we would do.

I don't agree that poch is a bad manager he hasn't had the luxury of winning anything yet or had the financial backing that conte would get.
Yes we have been found to be a bit predictable in the last two games where they were happy to concede possession because they knew we play a bit narrow at times.
Let's get through this window and see who we bring in to change it

 

[THFCSPURS19]

Poch is still too naive and inexperienced to win big or important games when it's required

What an absolutely absurd statement. Under his management, we've beaten City 3 times, Chelsea twice, United twice and Arsenal twice.

 

[thfc1973]

What an absolutely absurd statement. Under his management, we've beaten City 3 times, Chelsea twice, United twice and Arsenal twice.

Not from my point of view..
Look at most of our CL games last season. Pivotal games in the title run in, both last season and the season before. FA Cup Semi last season...Not an absurd statement at all if you take those into consideration.

Again, a lot of silly people on here like to twist words to come up with something to try and beat people with but they clearly and continually miss the point. Pretty narrow minded if you ask me.
Anyone with an objective point of view will admit we regularly fail to win big games when it counts to get the title, trophy or final spot.
All this nonsense about we beat so and so this many times, is all well and good to use as an argument but these 1 off games don't really count for much when you get beaten to the title, the final or get nothing at the end of the season to show for it.
Sure we beat CFC 2 times but how many trophies have they won regardless of how many times we have beaten them? Same question goes for Arse or Man Utd..

 

[SandroClegane]

Not from my point of view..
Look at most of our CL games last season. Pivotal games in the title run in, both last season and the season before. FA Cup Semi last season...Not an absurd statement at all if you take those into consideration.

Again, a lot of silly people on here like to twist words to come up with something to try and beat people with but they clearly and continually miss the point. Pretty narrow minded if you ask me.
Anyone with an objective point of view will admit we regularly fail to win big games when it counts to get the title, trophy or final spot.
All this nonsense about we beat so and so this many times, is all well and good to use as an argument but these 1 off games don't really count for much when you get beaten to the title, the final or get nothing at the end of the season to show for it.
Sure we beat CFC 2 times but how many trophies have they won regardless of how many times we have beaten them? Same question goes for Arse or Man Utd..

Kane/Alderweireld were hurt during most of the CL games. We won 12 of 13 in the title run in last year. What are you talking about?

 

[Hazardousman]

Kane/Alderweireld were hurt during most of the CL games. We won 12 of 13 in the title run in last year. What are you talking about?

Could be argued though that we lost the game which really counted (West Ham) that would have put an immense amount of pressure on Chelsea during the run in last season and that would be considered the "Big game" we always fuck up in.

It's one thing winning big games, it's another thing winning big games "when it counts" because the latter is where we seem to struggle.

Also, we underacheived against the bigger teams last season, could have easly turned some of those home/away losses and draws into wins, the Arsenal away game for example, Leicester at home was another one, Everton away, Liverpool at home (to be fair they dominated us that day, we were lucky to get a draw) Chelsea away (should have drawn that at least) United away (again, should have drawn that) and West Ham away, which imo, was a bottle job on our part, we can say what we will about West Ham and it being their "cup final" but the truth is, we are chasing the title, that should be irrelevant if we have more hunger and desire.

THOSE are the kind of games we need to start winning, that's when the pressure is truly on us, until we do, things will remain the same.

 

[Ben1]

Could be argued though that we lost the game which really counted (West Ham) that would have put an immense amount of pressure on Chelsea during the run in last season and that would be considered the "Big game" we always fuck up in.

It's one thing winning big games, it's another thing winning big games "when it counts" because the latter is where we seem to struggle.

Also, we underacheived against the bigger teams last season, could have easly turned some of those home/away losses and draws into wins, the Arsenal away game for example, Leicester at home was another one, Everton away, Liverpool at home (to be fair they dominated us that day, we were lucky to get a draw) Chelsea away (should have drawn that at least) United away (again, should have drawn that) and West Ham away, which imo, was a bottle job on our part, we can say what we will about West Ham and it being their "cup final" but the truth is, we are chasing the title, that should be irrelevant if we have more hunger and desire.

THOSE are the kind of games we need to start winning, that's when the pressure is truly on us, until we do, things will remain the same.

Easily turning them into wins is easy to say. What about Swansea away, man city away, Liverpool at home, west brom away...we should have lost them all but turned them around. Teams rarely win every game. We struggled against the the big boys away but all bar one struggled away to us...that's home advantage for ya.

 

[Shadydan]

Could be argued though that we lost the game which really counted (West Ham) that would have put an immense amount of pressure on Chelsea during the run in last season and that would be considered the "Big game" we always fuck up in.

It's one thing winning big games, it's another thing winning big games "when it counts" because the latter is where we seem to struggle.

Also, we underacheived against the bigger teams last season, could have easly turned some of those home/away losses and draws into wins, the Arsenal away game for example, Leicester at home was another one, Everton away, Liverpool at home (to be fair they dominated us that day, we were lucky to get a draw) Chelsea away (should have drawn that at least) United away (again, should have drawn that) and West Ham away, which imo, was a bottle job on our part, we can say what we will about West Ham and it being their "cup final" but the truth is, we are chasing the title, that should be irrelevant if we have more hunger and desire.

THOSE are the kind of games we need to start winning, that's when the pressure is truly on us, until we do, things will remain the same.

Sorry but no...winning 12 out of 13 matches going on a wining run all the way from February including wins over Utd and Arsenal yet the one game we lose because we couldn't handle the pressure, seriously?

We're going to lose matches now and then, it has nothing to do with bottling or not handling the pressure, sometimes we're going to face teams who are better than us on the day.

 

[Hazardousman]

Sorry but no...winning 12 out of 13 matches going on a wining run all the way from February including wins over Utd and Arsenal yet the one game we lose because we couldn't handle the pressure, seriously?

We're going to lose matches now and then, it has nothing to do with bottling or not handling the pressure, sometimes we're going to face teams who are better than us on the day.

This is the problem I have with this argument, it lacks complete context when you say it, all those results were fantastic, I am not criticising the team, that is a fantastic run of form, worthy of winning any trophy.

BUT context matters here and the way things played out up until that West Ham game, we had done extremely well to put pressure on Chelsea (especially after they dropped points to Palace) but here's the thing, that West Ham game we were playing BEFORE Chelsea for the first time since the Palace game where they dropped points, the pressure was on US to go first.

That's the point, that game was the first time within that run of games that we could have put serious pressure on them and cut the gap down to within 3 points I believe, it was a high pressure test for us, one that if we could have passed it, would have increased the chances of Chelsea possibly buckling under the pressure, Conte at the time could feel the pressure, they all could.

Not saying that if we would have won that day that Chelsea would have lost, hell, they could have and likely would have won out their remaining games anyway but the point still remains that, we should have done better that day, even a draw would have sufficed and I don't think it's any shock that after the pressure was off we were then smashing teams the following weeks and looked far more relaxed than we did during that West Ham game, we looked off that night and I believe it's because we felt the pressure for the first time during that run in as we were playing first.

This isn't me trying to take away the fantastic results we had achieved during that run in, it's just me highlighting the fact that maybe Chelsea would have found a way to win or at least draw that game if they were in the same situation as us.

I still believe that when the big occassions come and we NEED to win that we still struggle, less so than we used to I will admit, it's something that is improving slowly over time but if we ever want to win a trophy or be champions we need to learn how to win in situations like that and just like this weekend, it's something we failed on, the second goal was our own doing, we should have come from that game with at least a point, bare minimum, instead, we gifted them a goal and I think it's the minimal differences like that which count the most.

This is the one thing I disagree with Poch on, the other week he came out and said that the PL trophy and CL trophy are what we should be aiming for and whilst I agree with the sentiment I also understand that, sometimes, you have to start off small and build up, I genuinely believe once we win a trophy, ANY trophy, this team will find a way to win the games that count.

Though I am sure you will disagree with me and that's fine.

 

[Shadydan]

This is the problem I have with this argument, it lacks complete context when you say it, all those results were fantastic, I am not criticising the team, that is a fantastic run of form, worthy of winning any trophy.

BUT context matters here and the way things played out up until that West Ham game, we had done extremely well to put pressure on Chelsea (especially after they dropped points to Palace) but here's the thing, that West Ham game we were playing BEFORE Chelsea for the first time since the Palace game where they dropped points, the pressure was on US to go first.

That's the point, that game was the first time within that run of games that we could have put serious pressure on them and cut the gap down to within 3 points I believe, it was a high pressure test for us, one that if we could have passed it, would have increased the chances of Chelsea possibly buckling under the pressure, Conte at the time could feel the pressure, they all could.

Not saying that if we would have won that day that Chelsea would have lost, hell, they could have and likely would have won out their remaining games anyway but the point still remains that, we should have done better that day, even a draw would have sufficed and I don't think it's any shock that after the pressure was off we were then smashing teams the following weeks and looked far more relaxed than we did during that West Ham game, we looked off that night and I believe it's because we felt the pressure for the first time during that run in as we were playing first.

This isn't me trying to take away the fantastic results we had achieved during that run in, it's just me highlighting the fact that maybe Chelsea would have found a way to win or at least draw that game if they were in the same situation as us.

I still believe that when the big occassions come and we NEED to win that we still struggle, less so than we used to I will admit, it's something that is improving slowly over time but if we ever want to win a trophy or be champions we need to learn how to win in situations like that and just like this weekend, it's something we failed on, the second goal was our own doing, we should have come from that game with at least a point, bare minimum, instead, we gifted them a goal and I think it's the minimal differences like that which count the most.

This is the one thing I disagree with Poch on, the other week he came out and said that the PL trophy and CL trophy are what we should be aiming for and whilst I agree with the sentiment I also understand that, sometimes, you have to start off small and build up, I genuinely believe once we win a trophy, ANY trophy, this team will find a way to win the games that count.

Though I am sure you will disagree with me and that's fine.

We played Watford and beat them 4-0 before they played Bournemouth on the same day, also we played Bournemouth and beat them 4-0 a day before they were due to play Man Utd so not sure I'd agree with that. Also it's common knowledge that teams who play 2nd in a title run in face the most pressure, not before, we played 2 matches before Chelsea which could be considered title challenging matches and won them both.

You're being a bit unfair, we had better form than Chelsea going into the end of the season but they had a 10 point buffer, we closed the gap and we're the ones seen as legends...nah sorry.

 

[Graysonti]

Best manager in my time supporting Spurs and with a financial handicap on the clubs we are competing with. And I was sceptical at first.

Hope he stays with us for years and years.

So deserves a trophy.

 

[thfc1973]

Poch's tactics seems to me to have regressed compared to his 1st and 2nd seasons. No more incessant pressing, in fact we've dropped off back to what we used to be before he came. His subs aren't great either. That could be cos of squad is still lacking.. But, he seems to regularly make subs too late and when he does the subs aren't making a real difference. Today was a perfect example of not managing players better - with Dembele. Not sure he will effectively play a full game much this season and he should be the player to either bring on late to tighten up the midfield or take off for a better impact player. I'm starting to think Poch has lost his ruthlessness which is worrying. We used to press for whole matches in seasons past, but now he hardly ever do.

I still think he's a great manager but I do feel he lacks the ruthless side of a Klopp or Simeone type of manager that could propel us even higher. I also think he's becoming too friendly and close to the players which affects his objective decision making.

Another thing related to this manager opinion is that there's a valid point in this day and age of football which is evident in the majority to clubs, and that's changing managers. In days of old one always used to talk about continuity. How changing managers is never good. I think that's the case only if the change is every year or 2, but if, after 4 years the team cannot improve year after year, then change could at necessary to keep the upwards momentum. So long as the next manager is better that is... The new age of football isn't compatible with managers staying 10, 15, 20 years. If the manager isn't improving the team every year one needs to look at either giving him the players to do it or upgrading the manager himself or the players aren't doing it.

This isn't a Poch out post as I think he's a great manager but I do think there's a risk that he'll regress if he doesn't push us on. Managers like Pep do it to themselves for that reason. They don't want to regress, and if they feel too comfortable they are willing to walk. They have the inner motivation and determination to challenge themselves and there's something to be said about managers like that. Klopp effectively did it when he left BVB after a bad season. He most likely felt he didn't have to mental drive anymore to encourage the team.

Without expecting Levy to get the world class players we need, (spending large amounts of money on top players like Martial and/or Mahrez for example) we need Poch more than ever to push the team and drive them forward again. And I'm just not feeling he is able to do that for some reason.

By the way, did anyone else catch what Poch said about Sanchez not being as much as what was reported?

I feel that if we don't get top drawer attackers in this coming week I think Poch will struggle to get us top 4 this season. And that could spell trouble for players like Hugo, Dele and Kane amongst others.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

Why the fudge do I keep seeing Sissoko on the pitch. Substitutions used to be Pochettino's achilles heel, then he sort of got the hang of it. Over the three first matches this season, he is making the worst substitutions of the century.

 

[danielneeds]

Poch's tactics seems to me to have regressed compared to his 1st and 2nd seasons. No more incessant pressing, in fact we've dropped off back to what we used to be before he came. His subs aren't great either. That could be cos of squad is still lacking.. But, he seems to regularly make subs too late and when he does the subs aren't making a real difference. Today was a perfect example of not managing players better - with Dembele. Not sure he will effectively play a full game much this season and he should be the player to either bring on late to tighten up the midfield or take off for a better impact player. I'm starting to think Poch has lost his ruthlessness which is worrying. We used to press for whole matches in seasons past, but now he hardly ever do.

I still think he's a great manager but I do feel he lacks the ruthless side of a Klopp or Simeone type of manager that could propel us even higher. I also think he's becoming too friendly and close to the players which affects his objective decision making.

Another thing related to this manager opinion is that there's a valid point in this day and age of football which is evident in the majority to clubs, and that's changing managers. In days of old one always used to talk about continuity. How changing managers is never good. I think that's the case only if the change is every year or 2, but if, after 4 years the team cannot improve year after year, then change could at necessary to keep the upwards momentum. So long as the next manager is better that is... The new age of football isn't compatible with managers staying 10, 15, 20 years. If the manager isn't improving the team every year one needs to look at either giving him the players to do it or upgrading the manager himself or the players aren't doing it.

This isn't a Poch out post as I think he's a great manager but I do think there's a risk that he'll regress if he doesn't push us on. Managers like Pep do it to themselves for that reason. They don't want to regress, and if they feel too comfortable they are willing to walk. They have the inner motivation and determination to challenge themselves and there's something to be said about managers like that. Klopp effectively did it when he left BVB after a bad season. He most likely felt he didn't have to mental drive anymore to encourage the team.

Without expecting Levy to get the world class players we need, (spending large amounts of money on top players like Martial and/or Mahrez for example) we need Poch more than ever to push the team and drive them forward again. And I'm just not feeling he is able to do that for some reason.

By the way, did anyone else catch what Poch said about Sanchez not being as much as what was reported?

I feel that if we don't get top drawer attackers in this coming week I think Poch will struggle to get us top 4 this season. And that could spell trouble for players like Hugo, Dele and Kane amongst others.

What a load of crap.

He's turned water into wine consistently.

He has weaknesses like all managers.

He needs to win something though, for his own self-belief, and to instill it into the team.

 

[tiger666]

Why the fudge do I keep seeing Sissoko on the pitch. Substitutions used to be Pochettino's achilles heel, then he sort of got the hang of it. Over the three first matches this season, he is making the worst substitutions of the century.

We played better when Sissoko came on.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

We played better when Sissoko came on.

You are a Burnley supporter, I take it?

 

[tiger666]

You are a Burnley supporter, I take it?

Har de har

 

[markiespurs]

Why the fudge do I keep seeing Sissoko on the pitch. Substitutions used to be Pochettino's achilles heel, then he sort of got the hang of it. Over the three first matches this season, he is making the worst substitutions of the century.

In fairness, I thought Sissoko actually did quite well when he came on, actually resembled a professional footballer.

 

[thfc1973]

What a load of crap.

He's turned water into wine consistently.

He has weaknesses like all managers.

He needs to win something though, for his own self-belief, and to instill it into the team.

I really believe we are in danger of regressing.
His first season of press be learnt that he couldn't press all season, so the 2nd season the press was not so much. What it has turned into is hardly any press to no press. What he should be doing is strategically getting us to press, but he's not.

For example why didn't we press for the last 20 odd minutes of the game when we were 1-0 up? If we aren't going to score with the chances we had then at least press to ensure the opponent doesn't get a foot back into the game...! But no...

If we don't press we'll regress. I'm telling you.. We won't get wins against Everton away and Bvb playing the way we currently are. No way...

We got results against City and Chelsea with no better players. It was cos we pressed. So if we don't press every game then at least press at certain times in games to kill it if you can't press the whole game every game.

Don't praise the manager too much as you'll look silly when he leaves one day.... If he doesn't learn then don't expect miracles.

 

[DEFchenkOE]

One thing that Poch needs to improve on is our attacking signings. So far I think his only successful attacking signings have been Alli and Son.

Njie, Nkoudou, and Janssen have been a waste of time.