What's new

The Mauricio Pochettino thread

Status
Not open for further replies.

dtxspurs

Welcome to the Good Life
Dec 28, 2017
11,234
46,574
Davies is especially a sticking point for me - he just doesn't look good enough for the squad, never mind being first choice. He reminds me of Kyle Naughton in such that he's not shit, but isn't good enough.
I think Davies is fine in cup games, lower teams in the table, but we still have to rely on Rose to play the top games whether we like it or not. He gives us our best chance.

But this needs to be addressed next summer as does the other fullback spot if Trippier or Aurier don't solidify themselves.
 

mrlilywhite

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2008
3,174
4,992
He did say they were being rested. There is quote somewhere.
Well everywhere I have seen the reason he gave in his words were technical - there is nothing technical about resting from what I know of. If he said that then that would be the only thing he need say. No need to mention the word technical.
 

JCRD

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2018
19,153
30,013
He does have options though. He brought on Danny Rose for a striker when Llorente was sat there.

His problem is he doesn't change things when they need changing, and if he does it's often too late, and he often fucks about with subs when it's clear we need to keep things as they are. I'm by no means an expert, but I think we all see it?

I mentioned he isn't blameless and you're right his substitutions did baffle me, and all of us, somewhat. All this though runs deeper as an issue than just subs. He also baffled last year, and year before that yet we still performed int he overall context of the season.

I'm not going to press the panic button and i certainly would never want him gone even if he got us relegated I'd still keep the guy. I just think there is an air of staleness about our club at the moment and that stems from the handicap that Levy caused. We needed to freshen things up, show we meant business and give the players something to be excited about.

I know Liverscum haven't won anything yet but they went out got the missing pieces of the jigsaw an indication of meaning business and have a clear objective to win the League. I'm envious of them because they're showing ambition and yep I acknowledge they haven't won anything yet.
 
May 17, 2018
11,872
47,993
I know Liverscum haven't won anything yet but they went out got the missing pieces of the jigsaw an indication of meaning business and have a clear objective to win the League. I'm envious of them because they're showing ambition and yep I acknowledge they haven't won anything yet.

They still have big issues with their squad though, as they are bloating quite a bit. It remains to be seen how things work out for them.
 

JUSTINSIGNAL

Well-Known Member
Jul 10, 2008
15,980
48,499
Well everywhere I have seen the reason he gave in his words were technical - there is nothing technical about resting from what I know of. If he said that then that would be the only thing he need say. No need to mention the word technical.

“We need to give our best. We have ahead a lot of games. We came from different circumstances after the World Cup. We have a plan for different players to take rest in different competitions, like the Champions League. Now it is Kieran and Toby, but it might be different players”
 

mrlilywhite

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2008
3,174
4,992
I mentioned he isn't blameless and you're right his substitutions did baffle me, and all of us, somewhat. All this though runs deeper as an issue than just subs. He also baffled last year, and year before that yet we still performed int he overall context of the season.

I'm not going to press the panic button and i certainly would never want him gone even if he got us relegated I'd still keep the guy. I just think there is an air of staleness about our club at the moment and that stems from the handicap that Levy caused. We needed to freshen things up, show we meant business and give the players something to be excited about.

I know Liverscum haven't won anything yet but they went out got the missing pieces of the jigsaw an indication of meaning business and have a clear objective to win the League. I'm envious of them because they're showing ambition and yep I acknowledge they haven't won anything yet.

Really!? If that guy got us relegated there is no way I would want him anywhere near the club. My loyalty is to the club, not the manager, not the owners but the club. The reason I am so bloody annoyed with Poch & Levy is that right now they are not making the best choices for the club. At the end of the day, I support spurs not because I am a fan of watching Hoddle in his prime or watching Gazza bend it past Seaman, or even because we have had a good manager for a few seasons. The club is something that is part of my personal history. I am not going to constantly praise someone when they are not performing. Kane comes under that as well. One of our own or not, he shouldn't be allowed to keep playing week after week if he isn't adding benefit to the club. Sorry to rant.
 

ljinko888

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2016
2,080
5,376
Yeah totally agree. He has had no more than a handful of reasonable to good games for us.

Think that's harsh. He has played a lot of reasonable to good games imo, but seldom any great games which is the difference between him and pre-injury Rose.

Rose for 18 months was a force of nature up and down that flank whereas Davies plays a more economical game. The Rose-Walker flanks were so good because they both could carry the ball forward at pace whereas Davies/Trippier probably keep the ball better and in Trippier's case create more chances but they lack that direct impetus.

The speed in our play has gone down and largely because the full backs are completely different profiles.
 

THX2208

Ubisoft Goes Steamworks Bye Bye; Always On DRM
Dec 6, 2006
2,921
4,774
Really!? If that guy got us relegated there is no way I would want him anywhere near the club. My loyalty is to the club, not the manager, not the owners but the club. The reason I am so bloody annoyed with Poch & Levy is that right now they are not making the best choices for the club. At the end of the day, I support spurs not because I am a fan of watching Hoddle in his prime or watching Gazza bend it past Seaman, or even because we have had a good manager for a few seasons. The club is something that is part of my personal history. I am not going to constantly praise someone when they are not performing. Kane comes under that as well. One of our own or not, he shouldn't be allowed to keep playing week after week if he isn't adding benefit to the club. Sorry to rant.

No apologies needed Bro, I just wish some of our players had that passionate display for the club. You are correct in everything you say we all support the Football first, second and last the rest are just hired help but we the fans will be here until our bodies give up. ??
 

JCRD

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2018
19,153
30,013
Really!? If that guy got us relegated there is no way I would want him anywhere near the club. My loyalty is to the club, not the manager, not the owners but the club. The reason I am so bloody annoyed with Poch & Levy is that right now they are not making the best choices for the club. At the end of the day, I support spurs not because I am a fan of watching Hoddle in his prime or watching Gazza bend it past Seaman, or even because we have had a good manager for a few seasons. The club is something that is part of my personal history. I am not going to constantly praise someone when they are not performing. Kane comes under that as well. One of our own or not, he shouldn't be allowed to keep playing week after week if he isn't adding benefit to the club. Sorry to rant.

Ok that was a bit hyperbolic from me

It has been three games, so we cant hammer Poch for losing three games although it is a concerning situation.

When there is an under performance, generally there is a root cause. What is that root cause? The root cause is us not freshening things up, players being tired, Poch has made some shit substitutions and decisions, we are at the moment homeless with no certain date of when we can go home and Levy let Poch and us down as fans. We pay the most expensive ST prices in the world yet I spent more money on a cup of coffee from Starbucks than Levy did.

It really is a culmination of a number of factors unfortunately. The start of the summer before the word cup it started with so much excitement and optimism but it ended with uncertainty and apprehension.
 

mrlilywhite

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2008
3,174
4,992
Think that's harsh. He has played a lot of reasonable to good games imo, but seldom any great games which is the difference between him and pre-injury Rose.

Rose for 18 months was a force of nature up and down that flank whereas Davies plays a more economical game. The Rose-Walker flanks were so good because they both could carry the ball forward at pace whereas Davies/Trippier probably keep the ball better and in Trippier's case create more chances but they lack that direct impetus.

The speed in our play has gone down and largely because the full backs are completely different profiles.
Yes I agree regarding the speed - They are integral to the way Poch set's up. The problem with say Walker and Rose were they can't cross consistently well. Whilst Tripps can, he doesn't have the pace to get into positions often enough to deliver. Davies cannot do any of the former or latter well enough & Aurier is an unknown still. Over the 4 seasons Poch has been here not one of those issues has been solved collectively, which leads me to think that he doesn't rely on WB's as much as first thought. We play through the middle and that accompanied with our patient build up is half the problem. I have often wondered how the likes of Lamela, Son and Moura could play if we upped our tempo and played more direct. We did that to great effect last season when Kane was out.

No apologies needed Bro, I just wish some of our players had that passionate display for the club. You are correct in everything you say we all support the Football first, second and last the rest are just hired help but we the fans will be here until our bodies give up. ??

I live with the hope that we might just get a league title before my time is up. Wishful thinking the way Levy continues to hold onto the club :(
 

m*****73

Well-Known Member
Dec 15, 2005
462
732
The thing is, the performances have been poor all season so far and gradually getting worse. To compound the bad performances, Poch has made a few mistakes - He got it right against Utd in the end, so there is hope.

I personally think that he is quite a limited manager when it comes to tactical choices. When we started playing under his press system, we looked really good. We pressed high up the pitch to win the ball back and frightened teams, but Poch still didn't have the answer to unlock defences when we played against teams who parked the bus. As the press was slowly withdrawn from our play, we started to look more vulnerable at the back.

We especially struggled against teams who pressed our back four and we started to look shaky more often. I hate to say this against the grain of wisdom that visits this forum, but I think we have reached the limit of Poch. I think he is and always was a one trick pony, albeit a very good one. His desire to persist with Kane is alarming, given his poor performances and more worryingly on that front, is that it has been going on like this for some time prior to the world cup - Kane imo isn't exhausted, I think he is carrying something that is hampering his ability to perform at the highest level. Poch seriously needs to address at least that issue and he can, as he has done so before.

Ultimately we would all be sad to lose Poch, but you have to question him for the on-field performances. I would also add that his man management skills should be questioned when you consider the Toby, Rose, Walker and Trippier issues that have arisen since his tenure.

Absolutely.

And you can add his treatment of Janssen, N'koudou and Alderweireld to his questionable man-management skills.
 

Trix

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2004
19,336
329,025
Those blaming Levy wholly for the Summer need to understand, we could and would have bought players in, but Poch only wanted a select few. There were players such as Mayer who were offered to us but Poch didn't see them as upgrades on what we had and didn't want to bring in for the sake of it. Ajax didn't want to sell De Jong in the end and it would have taken a bid waaay over the top to get him(and others). With the stadium it just wasn't going to happen.

Had we managed to sell some on then maybe we would have had the extra funds available to make offers too good to refuse, but we couldn't, and I'm not convinced Levy would have over paid anyway. That I guess is something we will never know.


Going forward something clearly needs to change regarding our transfer policy, or Poch needs to have back up options in his mind in case the first choices don't pan out. This Summer he didn't it was shit or bust as far as Poch's wanted incomings were concerned.


Anyway that said a lack of incomings doesn't really explain why for years Poch has been banging his drum regarding his philosophy and how important it is for everyone to play and be on board with that, only to keep chopping and changing it at every turn. If you asked me now what our style of play was based on the last 6 games I can honestly say I have no clue. No set formation, are we a pressing side, do we play counter attacking football, are we about a patient build up? Who knows???

What is clear to me though is that we look confused and panicky especially at set pieces. No one seems to know their role anymore, who they should be picking up, and how we move as a team. That imo is down to the formation changing week in week out. Yesterday we looked far better playing a 4-2-3-1. A system the players understood and have played the majority of the last 3 years. As soon as we changed it it went to shit very quickly. It's clearly the best formation for us squad wise considering what we have as far as squad options are concerned for changing things up, and it's clearly a formation the players understand, and most importantly it works.

Poch needs to just get back to basics and stop trying reinvent the wheel, because quite simply he can't. If it's a case he planned to change systems based on potential incomings e needs to forget it. He was happy to stick with what he had, than buy in second choice options. So he needs to adjust his mindset to deal with that fact. What he has play best in a 4-2-3-1.
 

Gassin's finest

C'est diabolique
May 12, 2010
37,350
87,812
^ this...

Poch is either trying to be too clever, in order to try and crack a title winning system with his squad; or he's trying to make a point. Either way, I am unimpressed and I would like us to go back to what we know works.

Beyond that, something is rotten in Denmark, and I don't mean Christian Eriksen. They say off the pitch stuff shouldn't effect the game on the pitch, but I'm going to stake a prawn sandwich that it is.

Promises may have been broken, the stadium situation is leaving the club struggling with its identity, there's still uncertainty over one or two players, and the Hugo affair is having some serious morality ramifications.

We're in a right wobble right now, and in my very honest opinion I think it really is on Poche to stabilise it.
 

iddebu52

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2007
974
1,325
You lot need to give the man space to work with the squad to get it right. For sure the management and ghe players will sit and review what is not functioning and address the problem. He needs to assess his substitutions decisions as well. But please stop the nonesense of'Poch out' mentality!! For f*** sake!!!
 

TheVoiceofReason

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2005
6,320
15,685
Those blaming Levy wholly for the Summer need to understand, we could and would have bought players in, but Poch only wanted a select few. There were players such as Mayer who were offered to us but Poch didn't see them as upgrades on what we had and didn't want to bring in for the sake of it. Ajax didn't want to sell De Jong in the end and it would have taken a bid waaay over the top to get him(and others). With the stadium it just wasn't going to happen.

Had we managed to sell some on then maybe we would have had the extra funds available to make offers too good to refuse, but we couldn't, and I'm not convinced Levy would have over paid anyway. That I guess is something we will never know.


Going forward something clearly needs to change regarding our transfer policy, or Poch needs to have back up options in his mind in case the first choices don't pan out. This Summer he didn't it was shit or bust as far as Poch's wanted incomings were concerned.


Anyway that said a lack of incomings doesn't really explain why for years Poch has been banging his drum regarding his philosophy and how important it is for everyone to play and be on board with that, only to keep chopping and changing it at every turn. If you asked me now what our style of play was based on the last 6 games I can honestly say I have no clue. No set formation, are we a pressing side, do we play counter attacking football, are we about a patient build up? Who knows???

What is clear to me though is that we look confused and panicky especially at set pieces. No one seems to know their role anymore, who they should be picking up, and how we move as a team. That imo is down to the formation changing week in week out. Yesterday we looked far better playing a 4-2-3-1. A system the players understood and have played the majority of the last 3 years. As soon as we changed it it went to shit very quickly. It's clearly the best formation for us squad wise considering what we have as far as squad options are concerned for changing things up, and it's clearly a formation the players understand, and most importantly it works.

Poch needs to just get back to basics and stop trying reinvent the wheel, because quite simply he can't. If it's a case he planned to change systems based on potential incomings e needs to forget it. He was happy to stick with what he had, than buy in second choice options. So he needs to adjust his mindset to deal with that fact. What he has play best in a 4-2-3-1.

Trix, I’m so appreciative of your info on this site, but I just can’t get on board with the idea that Levy couldn’t get a single one of Poch’s targets in because he wasn’t prepared to pay ‘way over’ for them.

And if he was backing Poch by only focusing on the players he wanted, even if meant getting none, then that is just piss poor leadership. Either way the club has failed, and the blame should go straight to the top. Everybody knows that no changes leads to a stale atmosphere. Did Liverpool pay way over? Because if they end up winning the title, those agent fees etc will become irrelevant after a few years of success.
 

E17yid

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2013
16,985
30,494
If anything what the start of the season has shown is that Poch was identifying the wrong fucking players just like he supposedly did with Sissoko. With Lanela coming back and Moura due a fair crack at the whip I have no fucking idea why we were pissing around going after Martial and Zaha. We didn’t need them.

You don’t have to be a genius to figure out we needed a ball playing CM and it’s not a case of Levy not delivering any of Pochs targets as it seems Poch was happy in this area.

I love the guy but he’s not great at player acquisition and identifying where we need to strengthen which is astonishing really.

I think he’ll turn it around but I’m a lot less confident of getting 4th but we’ve still got a great chance. Stating the obvious but it’s a must win on Saturday. Don’t care how we do it but we have to beat Brighton.
 

Trix

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2004
19,336
329,025
If anything what the start of the season has shown is that Poch was identifying the wrong fucking players just like he supposedly did with Sissoko. With Lanela coming back and Moura due a fair crack at the whip I have no fucking idea why we were pissing around going after Martial and Zaha. We didn’t need them.

You don’t have to be a genius to figure out we needed a ball playing CM and it’s not a case of Levy not delivering any of Pochs targets as it seems Poch was happy in this area.

I love the guy but he’s not great at player acquisition and identifying where we need to strengthen which is astonishing really.

I think he’ll turn it around but I’m a lot less confident of getting 4th but we’ve still got a great chance. Stating the obvious but it’s a must win on Saturday. Don’t care how we do it but we have to beat Brighton.
I have very publicly stated the window was a failure and that Levy was in a large part to blame for that. That is why in the post of mine you quoted, I said "those fully blaming Levy for the window". The lack of alternatives on the list, and being happy to stick with what we had instead of looking at others is on Poch. Don't get me wrong I back Poch on that front, but to not be prepared for that to happen, and seemingly not knowing now the best way to utilise a group he's had for pretty much his entire tenure is rrmarkable. Imo of course.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top