The Mauricio Pochettino thread

[pablo73]

Nah mate, unfortunately for us, it seems that spending money in an attempt to achieve sporting success assumes too many vagaries and uncertainties for ENIC's liking. For Lewis & Levy, investing heavily in "commodities" as untenable as footballers caries far greater risk than investing in bricks and mortar. The return on this property development will be huge for ENIC, regardless.
They don't need a league winning team to facilitate that return; just a relatively competitive one.
If what you're suggesting were true, surely ENIC would have viewed the windows of opportunity to kick on and secure those one or two important additions to challenge for honours as an absolute imperative. Historically they never have, and this latest window indicates that isn't likely to change anytime soon. Just look at the evidence of the last God knows how many "net-spend" seasons: it's clear that investment in the football team is subordinate to investment in the NWHL. That's where the funds are directed, while Levy predominantly scraps around for cheap opportunist grabs and young low risk bargains with resale value. Have no doubt, mate, Levy & ENIC view the stadium development as the best way to increase the value of the club and make themselves richer. The NPD - not the football team - is their priority.

Absolutely spot on, perfectly encapsulates the situation under ENIC now and for as long as they run the club. Wish I could winner it more than once, fantastic post

 

[doctor stefan Freud]

I'm not saying that they were better, but more postulating that he might struggle in areas where our other managers have succeeded.

If Pochettino decided to walk, hypothetically, I think there's a probably a slightly higher chance that we would win something under a different manager, as opposed to reverting back to a 5th/6th place style manager.

Kind of like Liverpool with Klopp up until this season - some managers are great at doing everything but that final push to win things. He's lost something like 5 finals in a row or something right? Is that down to the players, or is it something intangible that exists with some managers/coaches?

I don’t know- a lot of vagaries there as you acknowledge yourself. I’m not ready to start countenancing that we could improve if he goes. He’s been brilliant for us, despite the semi-final disappointments. So many managers can win silverware one season and lose their job the next because the wheels fall off. He’s got us into a great position without the financial clout of many of our rivals and I’d be absolutely gutted if we lost him because possible promises made were never kept. None of us know exactly what’s happening behind the scenes but he’s been the best manager to achieve what’s he’s done with Levy’s frugality. I’d be genuinely surprised if there’s a manager out there who can achieve the same with the same resources

 

[spursfan77]

I very much doubt Levy will get the can....from an investor's point of view he's done a cracking job.

I wholeheartedly agree but we now in the past that Lewis hasn’t been happy with how levy has run things on occasion. His daughter was brought in the keep an eye on what was going on and run the rule over parts of Levy’s job. This was 3/4 years ago and as far as I know she’s still involved in things.

Eg. She was in a property/investment meeting with levy on our Australia tour a couple of years ago (not the most recent one, the one before that) when we were looking for development partners for the stadium. I know this as a mate of mine was in the meeting and I remember him saying it was a bit weird, as we were so badly prepared for it and didn’t really know what we wanted at the time.

 

[doctor stefan Freud]

Except the hoodoo of getting past a semi final and actually winning a final but other than yet yes your right.

Fuck, Ramos managed that. I’d take 3/2/3 consecutive league finishers playing the football we’ve played over a cup. I’d love silverware too, but let’s not underestimate how far he’s taken us in the league

 

[shelfboy68]

Fuck, Ramos managed that. I’d take 3/2/3 consecutive league finishers playing the football we’ve played over a cup. I’d love silverware too, but let’s not underestimate how far he’s taken us in the league

I personally have never underestimated how far he has taken us in fact I'm as dissapointed as he must be in not being backed properly to try and take us on a bit further again.

 

[doctor stefan Freud]

I personally have never underestimated how far he has taken us in fact I'm as dissapointed as he must be in not being backed properly to try and take us on a bit further again.

Sorry- misread the tone of your post. My internal reading voice always sounds like Kenneth Williams

 

[sausage]

I don’t know- a lot of vagaries there as you acknowledge yourself. I’m not ready to start countenancing that we could improve if he goes. He’s been brilliant for us, despite the semi-final disappointments. So many managers can win silverware one season and lose their job the next because the wheels fall off. He’s got us into a great position without the financial clout of many of our rivals and I’d be absolutely gutted if we lost him because possible promises made were never kept. None of us know exactly what’s happening behind the scenes but he’s been the best manager to achieve what’s he’s done with Levy’s frugality. I’d be genuinely surprised if there’s a manager out there who can achieve the same with the same resources

It's quite futile to postulate a different universe of what someone could have done instead of Pochettino, but my point is that I don't take the "threat" of him leaving as significantly as others do, on the basis of the potential of the now and beyond.

It's a case of merely stating that if he were to leave, looking at the very squad we have right now, how would you rate our chances? I'd say pretty damn high.

imo, we also have players in the squad who should be playing, but aren't. That is more of an issue to me than not bringing in even more.

For example, why is KWP not playing more? Why is Lamela not playing more? What is the issue with Wanyama? Why do we not have a plan B that works to the strengths of a proven-quality player like Llorente? Why do we play Davies as a winger? Why do we keep playing Dier? The Non-HG keeper situation. Why do we keep talking about needing more 'Plan B' players if we never change our tactics in the game? We do we sometimes wait 80 mins before making subs? We do we take our pivotal players off at 1-0 up and throw the game away.


Why are none of these even considered as reasons why might not be winning trophies? How exactly is the boardroom more significant that those things that I read in pretty much every match thread?

None of these are questions to you btw, it's more a case of explaining why I find it difficult to follow the logic of the "blame the board" crew.

 

[DJS]

Hopefully we’ve gotten through the sticky patch and once the holy grail that is the new stadium is open, it will generate even more revenue and we’ll be able to push on even more. With Poch at helm

 

[doctor stefan Freud]

It's quite futile to postulate a different universe of what someone could have done instead of Pochettino, but my point is that I don't take the "threat" of him leaving as significantly as others do, on the basis of the potential of the now and beyond.

It's a case of merely stating that if he were to leave, looking at the very squad we have right now, how would you rate our chances? I'd say pretty damn high.

imo, we also have players in the squad who should be playing, but aren't. That is more of an issue to me than not bringing in even more.

For example, why is KWP not playing more? Why is Lamela not playing more? What is the issue with Wanyama? Why do we not have a plan B that works to the strengths of a proven-quality player like Llorente? Why do we play Davies as a winger? Why do we keep playing Dier? The Non-HG keeper situation. Why do we keep talking about needing more 'Plan B' players if we never change our tactics in the game? We do we sometimes wait 80 mins before making subs? We do we take our pivotal players off at 1-0 up and throw the game away.


Why are none of these even considered as reasons why might not be winning trophies? How exactly is the boardroom more significant that those things that I read in pretty much every match thread?

None of these are questions to you btw, it's more a case of explaining why I find it difficult to follow the logic of the "blame the board" crew.

Some very good questions there, Sausage, that have been asked by many of us in one form or another. Some concern me less, but your points about Dier, KWP and Lamela are, for me at least, very pertinent. Equally though, it seems that based on itk regrading CM targets, Poch was very keen to land a technically gifted ball playing CM, one that can beat a deep press comfortably and catch our opponents on the back foot. In this, he’s arguably been let down massively in that football’s reactive nature now means so many other teams press deep. The best coaches anticipate trends and react to them, the very best do this and innovate. Poch is far from the finished product but he must be frustrated as hell to not get the type of player he requires to adjust the way he feels we need to play

 

[sausage]

Some very good questions there, Sausage, that have been asked by many of us in one form or another. Some concern me less, but your points about Dier, KWP and Lamela are, for me at least, very pertinent. Equally though, it seems that based on itk regrading CM targets, Poch was very keen to land a technically gifted ball playing CM, one that can beat a deep press comfortably and catch our opponents on the back foot. In this, he’s arguably been let down massively in that football’s reactive nature now means so many other teams press deep. The best coaches anticipate trends and react to them, the very best do this and innovate. Poch is far from the finished product but he must be frustrated as hell to not get the type of player he requires to adjust the way he feels we need to play

The thing that frustrates me about the CM issue is that Poch seems to make the situation worse with the Dier/Dembele pairing. Dembele is a tenatious ball winner whose quality is irreplaceable and stands alone, but he's not a creative player or a quick passer of the ball. But neither is Dier. Dier is pretty much nothing that Dembele is.

With all the quality we have in the squad, is it not possible to be "brave" now and again by trying something a bit different? I just can't believe we have no one better in the squad to sit in that role - whether it be one of the young lads, or looking at a bench player who can pick a good pass and saying "how about we try you in that role"?.

 

[WiganSpur]

The thing that frustrates me about the CM issue is that Poch seems to make the situation worse with the Dier/Dembele pairing. Dembele is a tenatious ball winner whose quality is irreplaceable and stands alone, but he's not a creative player or a quick passer of the ball. But neither is Dier. Dier is pretty much nothing that Dembele is.

With all the quality we have in the squad, is it not possible to be "brave" now and again by trying something a bit different? I just can't believe we have no one better in the squad to sit in that role - whether it be one of the young lads, or looking at a bench player who can pick a good pass and saying "how about we try you in that role"?.

Agree, overarching problem is Daniel Levy's tight purse strings but MP is not helping himself at times.

He should have at least tried something else. Winks at the base of a three, chucking Amos/Onomah in there, seeing if we can get a run of games and fitness from Wanyama etc.

 

[The Doc]

The thing that frustrates me about the CM issue is that Poch seems to make the situation worse with the Dier/Dembele pairing. Dembele is a tenatious ball winner whose quality is irreplaceable and stands alone, but he's not a creative player or a quick passer of the ball. But neither is Dier. Dier is pretty much nothing that Dembele is.

With all the quality we have in the squad, is it not possible to be "brave" now and again by trying something a bit different? I just can't believe we have no one better in the squad to sit in that role - whether it be one of the young lads, or looking at a bench player who can pick a good pass and saying "how about we try you in that role"?.

The obvious pairing is Wanyama and Dembele. Because it isn't to Poch suggests Wanyama isn't fit enough or he is still carrying an injury. Maybe. Hoping he gets a game on Weds to see how he looks. Winks is also coming back from an injury, which he is allegedly going to have to manage for his entire career. Beyond those two, and Dier, think it would be a big ask to trust Skipp, Amos or any other youth player in there. Ditto trying the likes of Foyth. Especially right now.

 

[doctor stefan Freud]

The thing that frustrates me about the CM issue is that Poch seems to make the situation worse with the Dier/Dembele pairing. Dembele is a tenatious ball winner whose quality is irreplaceable and stands alone, but he's not a creative player or a quick passer of the ball. But neither is Dier. Dier is pretty much nothing that Dembele is.

With all the quality we have in the squad, is it not possible to be "brave" now and again by trying something a bit different? I just can't believe we have no one better in the squad to sit in that role - whether it be one of the young lads, or looking at a bench player who can pick a good pass and saying "how about we try you in that role"?.

Agree- the Dier/Dembele partnership creaks when it’s being pressed. It slows us down at times too

 

[[email protected]]

The thing that frustrates me about the CM issue is that Poch seems to make the situation worse with the Dier/Dembele pairing. Dembele is a tenatious ball winner whose quality is irreplaceable and stands alone, but he's not a creative player or a quick passer of the ball. But neither is Dier. Dier is pretty much nothing that Dembele is.

With all the quality we have in the squad, is it not possible to be "brave" now and again by trying something a bit different? I just can't believe we have no one better in the squad to sit in that role - whether it be one of the young lads, or looking at a bench player who can pick a good pass and saying "how about we try you in that role"?.

But who does he play in their stead? Winks whos managing a 'chronic ankle injury"?, Vic who's clearly still struggling with the knee injury that kept him out for most of last year? Or Sissoko who we all accept isn't exactly the most gifted of footballers? It's the reason he and everyone else with half a footballing brain, was calling for a quality CM this transfer window. We clearly needed something different; an upgrade, a rotation option at the very least, but in the spirit of utter negligence, the Board you so fervently defend failed miserably to provide him with one - and yet in your eyes this is all the manager's fault!

 

[Deleted member 27995]

But who does he play in their stead? Winks whos managing a 'chronic ankle injury"?, Vic who's clearly still struggling with the knee injury that kept him out for most of last year? Or Sissoko who we all accept isn't exactly the most gifted of footballers? It's the reason he and everyone else with half a footballing brain, was calling for a quality CM this transfer window. We clearly needed something different; an upgrade, a rotation option at the very least, but in the spirit of utter negligence, the Board you so fervently defend failed miserably to provide him with one - and yet in your eyes this is all the manager's fault!

Is that why he let Josh Onomah leave on loan? I mean even if it is merely for a rotational option as you highlight.

Yes Levy hates Poch, he also hates you, but let's not suggest that Poch in is infinite wisdom hasn't also fucked up here.

 

[RichieS]

Is that why he let Josh Onomah leave on loan? I mean even if it is merely for a rotational option as you highlight.

Yes Levy hates Poch, he also hates you, but let's not suggest that Poch in is infinite wisdom hasn't also fucked up here.

Has Poch, at any point during his reign, shown any inclination to have one of the holding mids be a playmaker?

 

[Capocrimini]

Where has this narrative come from that Poch hates Levy for the lack of spending?

Edit - Let me rephrase rather is upset at the lack of funding from Levy?

 

[Deleted member 27995]

Has Poch, at any point during his reign, shown any inclination to have one of the holding mids be a playmaker?

Always been pretty rigid, but let us not get away from the narrative.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

I wish I knew which central mids he turned down when offered. To think they are worse than Sissoko, the crocked Vic and the 'on his way back from injury and lacking game time' Winks, is truly amazing.

 

[RichieS]

I wish I knew which central mids he turned down when offered. To think they are worse than Sissoko, the crocked Vic and the 'on his way back from injury and lacking game time' Winks, is truly amazing.

The crocked-ness of Wanyama ought to be temporary though and it certainly wouldn't have been right to write him off just yet. Winks and Dembélé both have to be managed through chronic injuries now, but the two of them rotating should be sufficient for the most important competitions, with Amos a capable deputy in cup games and Sissoko still knocking about to boot.

I don't deny that CM is the weakest part of the team (which is as much to do with how strong we are elsewhere as anything else imo), but for what Poch seems to expect from them we have adequate playing staff. It just happens that we've had a bit of an injury crisis there over the last few months.