The Mauricio Pochettino thread

[alfie103]

That might work at Burnley or Cardiff but you can't expect to be competitive in competitions like the Premier league or Champions league if the tools you're given aren't on the same level as your rivals. Our first 11 when fully fit is rivalling any in the league. Scratch beneath the surface and the quality drops significantly. Especially when you consider the decline or Dembele, Rose being a crock now, Davies regressing to his actual level, Wanyama being constantly injured. Throw in to that the occasional injuries for players as would be expected and he's on a hiding to nothing. Would any of our midfield get in the city, Liverpool or Chelsea Midfield? No, and it's not a close decision either. They're all miles better.

It would have been nice to win something by now but when you look at what he's working with he's doing an incredible job to keep us competitive. Can you imagine Pep having to play David Silva at lwb in an FA cup semi final? Or having Sissoko or Llorente as your game changers off the bench?

Well he signed off on those purchases and in the case of Llorente, Poch actively persuaded him to come to Spurs ahead of Chelsea.

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

Another way to look at it is, has this group taken us as far as they can. Players get too used to the manager's voice and become comfortable. Doesn't it feel a bit like that with some of our players? There's a reason why the best manager in PL history always reinvented his team. This has been said by numerous others too.

Which is why turnover is important - keeps things fresh. Regular turnover also keeps a team from getting into a situation where many players need to leave/come in in a given window.

 

[stevenurse]

Well he signed off on those purchases and in the case of Llorente, Poch actively persuaded him to come to Spurs ahead of Chelsea.

Not in the case of Sissoko according to his book and even that was in the early hours on the last day. Same with Llorente, it was literally those or nothing on the last day of the window. It's not like he got exactly who he wanted all summer. He took them because if nothing else it's a body to fill a shirt.

 

[spursfan77]

Which is why turnover is important - keeps things fresh. Regular turnover also keeps a team from getting into a situation where many players need to leave/come in in a given window.

Then you have to question whether Poch has been too loyal to certain players, doesn’t trust his own judgement to bring replacements in or doesn’t know how to evolve a team.

I’m not having a go at him, but he’s never been in this position before. Maybe he doesn’t actually know what to do to push us on. He’s said that him and the coaching staff are working harder this season than ever but maybe that isn’t enough. But he can’t do anything else than do that.

 

[thePessimist]

He wont leave mid season and not for Real Madrid imo.

But fully expect him to leave for United in the summer

 

[mpickard2087]

That might work at Burnley or Cardiff but you can't expect to be competitive in competitions like the Premier league or Champions league if the tools you're given aren't on the same level as your rivals. Our first 11 when fully fit is rivalling any in the league. Scratch beneath the surface and the quality drops significantly. Especially when you consider the decline or Dembele, Rose being a crock now, Davies regressing to his actual level, Wanyama being constantly injured. Throw in to that the occasional injuries for players as would be expected and he's on a hiding to nothing. Would any of our midfield get in the city, Liverpool or Chelsea Midfield? No, and it's not a close decision either. They're all miles better.

It would have been nice to win something by now but when you look at what he's working with he's doing an incredible job to keep us competitive. Can you imagine Pep having to play David Silva at lwb in an FA cup semi final? Or having Sissoko or Llorente as your game changers off the bench?

I don't think I disputed that, but I can only say again that when it comes to the backups I don't think he can wash his hands clean of it all.

We've had the lumbering Janssen and Llorente. If we had someone up front who could battle, work hard, press hard then maybe Poch would have confidence to play him instead of flogging Harry Kane every week (and for me, is starting to diminish his all round game). Put this player in, have him rough up and be a pest for defences, and the Eriksen's, Alli's, Son's etc might benefit from the space created.

Sissoko's one quality is that in a straight line when he eventually trundles up through the gears he takes a bit of stopping, but add in a mobile hard pressing option in midfield and they might contribute to the whole and your better players win the game.

A succession of headless chicken random wingers who show no ability and don't contribute to the high press.

Davies is another one you can look at, consistently shown loyalty when he cant cover ground or aggressively close space.

I can only say again that Poch okays these back up players, when they don't really offer the fundamentals of his approach (before we get onto 'quality' and depth of it) to at least play some part, he often quickly loses confidence in them, and this is now showing in certain areas and having to compete over numerous competitions (although that's hardly something we couldn't see coming......). If he didn't want them a) don't sign them, b) tell the club what the criteria is and try again, or c) have you or your own guys identifying those who do fit. He cant just say 'wasn't my fault'. No one person at a football club is ever solely responsible for the successes, or the failures. He's got to have some responsibility especially given the length of his reign now.

 

[KingKay]

He wont leave mid season and not for Real Madrid imo.

But fully expect him to leave for United in the summer

Apt username.

 

[yankspurs]

Poch may well be managing in the first game at the new stadium. But for which side? Im not optimistic about.

 

[bomberH]

I note quite a few would like Howe if the worst happens and Poch quits. I really like Howe but he’s the type of manager we have gone for quite a lot in the past - young, promising but never managed a top club. I’d like a proven regular winner this time and with the new stadium and recent history of top 4 finishes etc, we should be able to attract someone like that. I fancy a good old school Italian manager.

Mostly, I hope Poch stays.

And even more mostly (!?), going back to a thread in the recent past, I’d like a sugar daddy/sugar mummy/sugar non binary android with unlimited funds to help us compete with the other sugar daddy clubs. I know that view wasn’t particularly popular in that thread but I bet we’d have bought someone in the summer if we did have someone like that. Poch loves moulding youngsters into stars so it’s not like he’d spend spend spend, but there’s no harm in buying a worldie to help them along every now and then. Not sure that’ll happen under our current regime. That’s not to say I dislike Levy, I just feel that if we are to sustain a serious title challenge and attract world class players, something needs to change.

 

[Shadydan]

Yes development of youth has stopped. Winks being the last player he promoted. Kwp, foyth, onomah, Edwards. Not being developed.

With your second reply, I am guessing - you never win anything with kids?

And your reply to sissoko, part of the reason we are not winning stuff is that either the players aren't good enough or the manager. Pick one.

And as for your last point, I didn't compare him to SAF, so read the post. I compared him to Wenger, working on a budget and doing a good job.

Well the development of youth players goes hand in hand with the quality of the squad, when Poch came in we were a 6th richest chasing a top four place and had a load of players who didn't want to be at Spurs, in that year he developed Kane, Mason, Carroll, Bentaleb and Dier. Now we are still the 6th richest team but we are chasing trophies and trying to maintain a top four place which means that those young players need to be good enough to play in the first team. The simple fact is that we've improved as a team over the years the pressure and expectations are now higher and the margins between success and failure and thinner than ever so bringing through the youth is only going to make things harder if you want to achieve success.

Do we have a Beckham and Scholes in our youth team also how many times is that going to be trotted out until people realise that Utd winning the title against the odds that year was a complete anomaly, a team led by the greatest ever manager in football managing the richest club in the league with some very very good youth players coming through the ranks, basically the stars aligned for them. What makes you think that we should be able to successfully bring youth players in and win trophies especially when you have teams out here spending £100m's every season and not winning fuck all?

Re: Sissoko - You've honestly lost me, no idea what you're on about, please explain.

On your last point...well yes you did, wasn't a direct comparison but you compared them nonetheless - you said that SAF was able to constantly change his squad and adapt to circumstance where as Poch hasn't. I said that Poch hasn't been afforded the same luxuries as SAF which is why he's been unable to change, does that make sense to you?

Would be a good idea to cut down on the condescending tone in future as well

 

[coys200]

For however much I love poch. If he has won nothing after 5 seasons with arguably the strongest all round squad we’ve had for close on 60 years you have to start to wonder. If you said to me would I feel more confident winning something if Conte was in charge next season with a decent budget probably.

 

[dagraham]

For however much I love poch. If he has won nothing after 5 seasons with arguably the strongest all round squad we’ve had for close on 60 years you have to start to wonder. If you said to me would I feel more confident winning something if Conte was in charge next season with a decent budget probably.

If you thought Conte was moody and confrontational working for Roman, he’d probably start crying in his press conferences working for Levy.

 

[dudu]

Most expensive season tickets in world football will not be tolerate 4/5/ or 6th place after a while. What is your point? That the negative atmosphere around the club is to do with Poch?

Your response is indicative of my point. People are getting hysterical about things that haven't happened yet.

 

[St José Dominguez]

I don’t want him to go and agree he’s probably the best manager I’ve seen us have in my adult life but this idea that if he goes we’ll slip into the wilderness of mid table is utterly laughable. People act as if he’s bigger than the club sometimes.

If he goes unless there is some mass sale of star players (which would bring in hundreds of millions of pounds) and none of this was reinvested we’ll still be in top 6, we will still most likely be pushing for top 4 unless we gave Sherwood the job again.

Yes we will most probably not be pushing on and looking like winning the league, but we look a million miles away from it now anyway. Yes it would be sad if he leaves at end of the season but it’s not cataclysmic, if we bring in a decent new manager we will be completely fine and if we kept this group of players together probably pretty much in a similar position.

 

[Spurvert]

I think he will be off in the summer to Madrid.

 

[Locotoro]

For however much I love poch. If he has won nothing after 5 seasons with arguably the strongest all round squad we’ve had for close on 60 years you have to start to wonder. If you said to me would I feel more confident winning something if Conte was in charge next season with a decent budget probably.

You'd have to wonder what? That we've not been good enough to win? Yes, when you are up against money bags Man Citeh and Chelsea and then Liverpool and Man U and even Arsenal who are all outspending us.

 

[yankspurs]

 

[SpartanSpur]

Your response is indicative of my point. People are getting hysterical about things that haven't happened yet.

These Pochettino quotes ARE real though, and they are hardly comforting.

I really hope we kick on soon and have our usual strong end to the season, but it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to see that things aren't right at the club currently...

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

People need to get a grip though I'd say. Lost interest after a few setbacks these last few months? Fucking hell. We're still, at worst, a Top 6 PL team. We could still be that after spending £300m, how competitive all the teams are currently.

If you wanted to lose hope or have your confidence shaken, you'd be a Sunderland fan plummeting down the football pyramid, or Newcastle caught in a never ending misery cycle, or Leicester given what happened at the weekend...... But a stadium delay, a couple of missed signings, and a stodgy start to the season?????

That sounds proper fair-weather and entitled. Jesus fucking Christ.

winner

 

[Frozen_Waffles]

Well the development of youth players goes hand in hand with the quality of the squad, when Poch came in we were a 6th richest chasing a top four place and had a load of players who didn't want to be at Spurs, in that year he developed Kane, Mason, Carroll, Bentaleb and Dier. Now we are still the 6th richest team but we are chasing trophies and trying to maintain a top four place which means that those young players need to be good enough to play in the first team. The simple fact is that we've improved as a team over the years the pressure and expectations are now higher and the margins between success and failure and thinner than ever so bringing through the youth is only going to make things harder if you want to achieve success.

Do we have a Beckham and Scholes in our youth team also how many times is that going to be trotted out until people realise that Utd winning the title against the odds that year was a complete anomaly, a team led by the greatest ever manager in football managing the richest club in the league with some very very good youth players coming through the ranks, basically the stars aligned for them. What makes you think that we should be able to successfully bring youth players in and win trophies especially when you have teams out here spending £100m's every season and not winning fuck all?

Re: Sissoko - You've honestly lost me, no idea what you're on about, please explain.

On your last point...well yes you did, wasn't a direct comparison but you compared them nonetheless - you said that SAF was able to constantly change his squad and adapt to circumstance where as Poch hasn't. I said that Poch hasn't been afforded the same luxuries as SAF which is why he's been unable to change, does that make sense to you?

Would be a good idea to cut down on the condescending tone in future as well

No tone implied, but take it as you like.

Again, though I have to ask you to read my post. I said stopped developing youth. With winks being the last one. Are you suggesting that we have been giving youth a chance recently?

You seem to be continuing to argue this saf point and I don't know why.

Anyway I am lost as to what you disagree with apart from the youth bit which I explained above.