The Mauricio Pochettino thread

[SpursDave88]

They could be replaced, or the Arsenal owners will be cheapskates and don't do it/replace with inferior players than the manager wants. That part is unknown as of now. He is doing a decent job atm though.

I don't think any of the Arsenal owners is named Daniel Levy!

 

[Spurslove]

I'm going to have to go to the hospital to have all my guts re-fitted. The only thing I would say while everyone is blaming everyone else, is that one result does not a season make. Yes it hurts like hell, especially with all the bollocks we're going to get from the goon fans, but thankfully, performances like that only come along once in a while and there's a long season ahead of us. Back on the horse Wednesday evening, so let's see some sort of backlash against the managerless Southampton.

.

 

[Gilzeanking]

Now I know why Poch was complaining about Foyth not being in the CL squad so much. Had he been, he would of started against Inter and Alderweireld against Arsenal.

But still don't get why he couldn't overlook a slight need for rotation at CB and come to the conclusion that experience should of been the key factor in the decision making process for a game of this magnitude.

Foyth could of started against Southampton. Furthermore CBs don't need to be freshened up as much as the midfield and attackers.

A couple of posters have speculated, and think there is something in it , that Poch is very close to his players , too close some might say . He hates to disappoint them , he values their contentment sometimes over practical priorities. In-game this seems to operate (we're under the cosh in a game , but he will rarely react til very late) and re this Foyth issue Poch did say how unhappy he was with him not being eligible for CL...it could be speculated that Arse match was a consolation for the boy .

His relationship with the players is one of the central planks of his management style imo , so this kind of baffling choice maybe comes with the territory .

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

I think, with the benefit of time to sleep on it, we, including me, have been overly harsh on Pochettino's performance yesterday.

The biggest gripes stem from the initial diamond set-up, and the failure to adjust in the 2nd half, including bringing subs on.

But, the reality is - we were leading at halftime with that formation and scored the only non-pen goal of the half. The pen we conceded was an individual error, nothing to do with the formation. So, while we each may have had preferences for alternative formations, its silly to be overly-critical of a formation that produced a winning position. Its true that we struggled at times - but even the half-time pundits expected us to go on and win from that stage.

Next, came the adjustments from Arseanl at halftime - they were the team to adjust to our tactics, which further suggests that Poch got it right from the start. The next criticism of Poch is that he did not adjust to Arsenal's adjustments, but that is not true. When Arsenal brought on Lacazette, we did, eventually, switch to a back-3, which is what you would expect when facing 2 forwards. I think its fair to note that we did not make the switch right away, but at the same time I think its fair for Poch and staff to see the match play out before over-reacting.

Finally, there is the issue with the substitutions. I noted in the match thread there was a point where we were running out of energy, but I did not know who you bring on to change that. Based on the bench we had:

Gazzaniga - not coming in

KWP - not going to improve Aurier - particularly with Foyth next to him

Toby - lots of talk of him on the bench, but if he is battling hamstrings, he was not coming in absent an emergency

Rose - he eventually came in - but I don't think he was a difference-maker

Winks - this is one of the obvious subs that could have been made to help control the ball in the MF - but with Dier moving to a back-3, taking Sissoko out would have left us with no DM - so until we were chasing a goal, this was not an easy decision.

Lucas - another sub that, on paper, looks to be easy to make - Lucas for Son - except that Son had been our most effective attacking player in the match, so taking him off was not an "obvious" decision that Poch should have made.

Llorente - again, not taking Kane out, and he only makes sense if you are chasing a goal - it would have been for Dele or Eriksen. So, when it is 2-2, you are not bringing him in too early.


Injuries limit what Poch can do during the match - no Wanyama, means no DM substitute, no Sanchez (and Toby), means we start Jan and Foyth, no Dembele means we lack a CM with size and strength, no Lamela means we don't have a creative player to sub in for Eriksen.

I think, with the benefit of 24-hours, Poch did what he could during the match - he just lacked viable options to make sweeping changes. He did react to Arsenal's change in tactics/formation given what he had. Poch can't account for individual errors - as he might say: "That's football."

 

[Kiedis]

I really do think that Alderweireld being rotated was mostly due to him having played very much this season. He's had hamstring injuries as good as every year except the 15/16 season, and is (together with Kane) the only player among the 9(?) who had a four day preseason who hasn't had a hamstring injury thus far. There is a case to made for him to be rested made a bit of sense.

 

[yankspurs]

During his interview after the match, he felt like the game was very even and we were comfortable at 2-1 and then 2-2 and it was just the mistake that made it 3-2.

He didn't make a change, because he felt we didn't need to make a change. Not sure what he was watching, because I thought we were getting battered.

He though the game was even? We got battered for 90’. I’m not sure what game he was watching because it certainly was not this game. Howeber, he also thought Foyth was the best one on the pitch which he was...decidedly not.

 

[DCSPUR]

Whisper it very softly. Word is Toby wasn’t 100%. Has to manage his hamstrings. That is the word from within anyway.

makes 100% sense to me

 

[SpursDave88]

makes 100% sense to me

A bit like Gareth Bale's strained buttock or the "technical decision" to leave out Kyle Walker.

 

[Gareth88]

Do you think he will learn from this game for the Carabao Cup? Is there something he can do different to change it for that game?

 

[Hakkz]

Based on the bench we had:
QUOTE]

Then we need to take a look at how we can get options on the bench. Which is going back to the whole no buys in the summer.

 

[philip]

It's a little annoying too tbh. Just as the "he never learns" line.

The fact is he DOES learn from his mistakes, it doesn't necessarily mean he will continue to make them but to sit there and say that h never learns is tosh.

In his first season we went to Stamford Bridge and were naively run over 0-3 because Poch tried to get us to be brave. He responded a month later with a 5-3 result against Mourinho by making us more aggressive and catching Chelsea off guard.
First time he came up against Conte, we lost but again reversed it.
First time he came up against Van Gaal, lost 3-0 but again reversed it.
Last season when we beat Liverpool 4-1, that was Poch being 'tactically clever' knowing that Liverpool will try press us high he had us sit a bit deeper and counter them.

That's the first time he's come up against Emery's Arsenal and whilst he approached it perhaps a little over-confident or naively, he will definitely have taken something from it and have a better plan for at home.

No one's saying he doesn't learn from mistakes.

What we're saying is that he's either not a 'reactive' manager who makes significant changes during the game to react to the opposition.

When was the last time that Poch made a positive change to deal with the opposition changing things?

 

[Kiedis]

No one's saying he doesn't learn from mistakes.

What we're saying is that he's either not a 'reactive' manager who makes significant changes during the game to react to the opposition.

When was the last time that Poch made a positive change to deal with the opposition changing things?

VS. Wolves away. Changed to a back five and nullified them. Sadly, it was 30 minutes after he should've done it. Other than that, Fulham at home springs to mind. And Chelsea away last season. There are probably more, but these were the ones from the very top of my head.

 

[t79boy]

Points to the players Poch brings on not being motivated to impact the game, as that’s a shocking stat.

Disagree, very few players (subs) hit the ground running and will require time to settle even more so for a high profile derby like this... so if you make your subs to LATE you are not giving your Plan B players enough time to make an impact , this is also compounded by if the momentum swings to the other team which it did yesterday.

 

[soflapaul]

omitting Toby was shocking as it wasn't clear that Juan was ready for a game of this emotional magnitude. I hated the decision.

in hindsight, Poch's quote about not starting him combined with Hercules assertion would suggest that either they believed Toby was at risk or there is a conspiracy to bench him with Hercules being a club mouthpiece.

("Every single game we pick the best player to try to win. Juan [Foyth] played so well against Chelsea in our victory one week ago and of course Toby [Alderweireld] played in the last month a lot of games - two with the national team and after Chelsea with Juan and Inter again. )

As of today, Poch and Hercules have seemed earnest and trustworthy and even when Poch spins, there is an element of truth in it. so despite the despair, i'm going to trust that they really thought Toby was at risk. Since we don't have access to the data, it isn't clear whether it was a reasonable risk to take.

I hate losing to those wine and cheese fans and just reading their comments, tweets, makes me sick. but three things are pretty clear. We can't get Davinson back fast enough. Foyth is getting a baptism by fire and is making the mistakes you would expect of a younger player. The players are getting overplayed and the UEFA Nation's league is a hindrance to club play especially for those clubs whose players lasted long into the World Cup.

 

[Blackrat1299]

He got it wrong today. It happens.

Time to move on, and not dwell on this performance.

I would if I could be reassured that he wont make the same mistake again.

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

When was the last time that Poch made a positive change to deal with the opposition changing things?

Yesterday.

Arsenal adjusted to our tactics at half-time. Then Poch adjusted to Arsenal by going to a back 3.

Injuries limited what Poch could do - once he moved Dier to a back 3. We had no other healthy CBs, and we had no other healthy DMs.

And, its not as simple as we should have bought in the summer - injuries happen. We are without Sanchez, Wanyama, Dembele - and for yesterday, Toby. That is 4 players from the middle of the defense that Poch did not have.

 

[Blackrat1299]

I only found out about hour ago. Also got told there was 2 players out there who had to play because of numbers. Winks has to be carefully managed due to his ankles.

Are we now playing the percentages game? Are we seriously looking at the games with a view to win or loose? If that is the case then we do need to bring in some players!

 

[DCSPUR]

even without @Hercules info it has been obvious Poch has been managing a squad with incredible physical challenges this season due to the WC semi participation + several players coming back from serious injuries (lamela, rose, wanyama, toby, winks). For all the complainers here about Poch resting Toby (after his hamstring injury last season) you'd be the first in line if he'd played him and it had gone.
The boss has done brilliantly with a tough hand. Shame the armchair warriors don't see that.

 

[whitesocks]

I think, with the benefit of time to sleep on it, we, including me, have been overly harsh on Pochettino's performance yesterday.

The biggest gripes stem from the initial diamond set-up, and the failure to adjust in the 2nd half, including bringing subs on.

But, the reality is - we were leading at halftime with that formation and scored the only non-pen goal of the half. The pen we conceded was an individual error, nothing to do with the formation. So, while we each may have had preferences for alternative formations, its silly to be overly-critical of a formation that produced a winning position. Its true that we struggled at times - but even the half-time pundits expected us to go on and win from that stage.

Next, came the adjustments from Arseanl at halftime - they were the team to adjust to our tactics, which further suggests that Poch got it right from the start. The next criticism of Poch is that he did not adjust to Arsenal's adjustments, but that is not true. When Arsenal brought on Lacazette, we did, eventually, switch to a back-3, which is what you would expect when facing 2 forwards. I think its fair to note that we did not make the switch right away, but at the same time I think its fair for Poch and staff to see the match play out before over-reacting.

Finally, there is the issue with the substitutions. I noted in the match thread there was a point where we were running out of energy, but I did not know who you bring on to change that. Based on the bench we had:

Gazzaniga - not coming in

KWP - not going to improve Aurier - particularly with Foyth next to him

Toby - lots of talk of him on the bench, but if he is battling hamstrings, he was not coming in absent an emergency

Rose - he eventually came in - but I don't think he was a difference-maker

Winks - this is one of the obvious subs that could have been made to help control the ball in the MF - but with Dier moving to a back-3, taking Sissoko out would have left us with no DM - so until we were chasing a goal, this was not an easy decision.

Lucas - another sub that, on paper, looks to be easy to make - Lucas for Son - except that Son had been our most effective attacking player in the match, so taking him off was not an "obvious" decision that Poch should have made.

Llorente - again, not taking Kane out, and he only makes sense if you are chasing a goal - it would have been for Dele or Eriksen. So, when it is 2-2, you are not bringing him in too early.


Injuries limit what Poch can do during the match - no Wanyama, means no DM substitute, no Sanchez (and Toby), means we start Jan and Foyth, no Dembele means we lack a CM with size and strength, no Lamela means we don't have a creative player to sub in for Eriksen.

I think, with the benefit of 24-hours, Poch did what he could during the match - he just lacked viable options to make sweeping changes. He did react to Arsenal's change in tactics/formation given what he had. Poch can't account for individual errors - as he might say: "That's football."

When his tactics are questioned and we have won, he is quick to close down the debate - We won - I was right!
So when we get stuffed, he is now open to the argument that he got it wrong. He set himself up for this one.

MP is not a tactical genius - far, far from it - he is a man management genius, but if the players' tanks are empty (and Eriksen, Dier and Vertonghen were not 100% match fit either) then we are going to struggle as workrate is our number one weapon.

 

[whitesocks]

Yesterday.

Arsenal adjusted to our tactics at half-time. Then Poch adjusted to Arsenal by going to a back 3.

Injuries limited what Poch could do - once he moved Dier to a back 3. We had no other healthy CBs, and we had no other healthy DMs.

And, its not as simple as we should have bought in the summer - injuries happen. We are without Sanchez, Wanyama, Dembele - and for yesterday, Toby. That is 4 players from the middle of the defense that Poch did not have.

Disagree.
It was entirely predictable that Dembele and Wanyama would struggle this season. MP has to take part of the blame for not tackling this problem.