The Mauricio Pochettino thread

[Shadydan]

No. Not when Warwick himself says it won't have an impact

?

 

[BringBack_leGin]

A lot of fans, including myself, believe that a net transfer spend of £29m since Poch got here isn't really good enough for a club that's supposed to want to challenge.

Focussing on net spend without look at the figures behind it is hugely disingenuous, wouldn't it be far better to focus on the quality of the players sold and the players signed in their respective positions?

Bentaleb, Townsend, Mason, Pritchard, Livermore, Carroll. We produced these players free no transfer fee. I think we can agree that at the very best any of them would be reserves right now, and in the case of the latter 3 probably not make our best 22. We sold them for a combined £64.5m. Would you be happier with a net spend of £94.5m over the past 4.5 seasons? Because had we not produced these players, derived varying level of value from each of them, and sold them at those prices, our net spend would be greater than Liverpools under Klopp (£93.85m). Yes, he has had 3 fewer windows, but he is also at a vastly richer club with a larger stadium, several times larger global brand, and many more years of Champions League revenue. They also spent £161.55m in the summer transfer window just gone (or, if you want to count Keita as from the previous summer £109.5), had they not made those transfers they'd be working at a profit. The includes a goalkeeper who is not as good as ours, and three midfielders in Shaqiri, Fabinho and Keita who have all played fewer matches this season (a season in which they are topping the league by a distance) than Wijnaldum, Milner and Henderson in their respective positions.

A further look at our sales shows that we shipped our Sigurdsson, Sandro, Capoue and Wimmer for more greater combined outlay than we signed Dele, Dier, Wanyama and Alderweireld respectively to the tune of £3.48m profit. I could keep going but generally our spend under Pochettino has been made up of signing players at good prices who have massively contributed, and selling players who weren't massively contributed for surprisingly high fees. I sometimes get the impression that supporters here would rather we had released all these players who weren't in Pochettino's plans for free so that we could have a high net spend, or worse, kept them and paid them salaries regardless of their lack of involvement in the first team.

The truth of the matter is that up until last summer, and I concede that last summer went poorly and myself criticise Levy for it, we have improved the squad considerably during Pochettino's tenure and done so consistently, while once again until Nkoudou-Janssen-gate shifted those players who were not useful at fees which have (as shown by the fact that there is any net spend at all) all gone towards replacing them with players of a higher quality. There is not one single example where anything I have written in this paragraph is untrue, but it doesn't fit the rhetoric of the naysayers and doom mongers.

Oh, and @Archibald&Crooks , that's some mighty good trolling there

 

[cider spurs]

No. Not when Warwick himself says it won't have an impact

Was that not said pre extra costings ?

 

[wrd]

What's amazing to me is that over the last few pages there wasn't any people shitting the bed or being overly negative or criticising levy, Literally none of these things. Then there was 1 claim that people are losing their minds, proceeds to argue an argument that simply wasn't there which obviously gets a few people to come out the woodwork and disagree and then there's a debate for which there wasn't a need for one. Fantastic.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

What's amazing to me is that over the last few pages there wasn't any people shitting the bed or being overly negative or criticising levy, Literally none of these things. Then there was 1 claim that people are losing their minds, proceeds to argue an argument that simply wasn't there which obviously gets a few people to come out the woodwork and disagree and then there's a debate for which there wasn't a need for one. Fantastic.

I think you’ll find (see, I like evidence) it all started with this:

The rest of this season is the biggest test in Pochettino’s Spurs career so far, time for him prove he’s as good as we think he is.

To which jurgen brought up the issue of investment/ lack of in direct response to:

All he’s achieved with the lack of investment proves that already. This would merely be his latest magic trick of many.

To which I responded with:

So far he’s proven himself at every stage pretty much, but this is his latest big challenge and a great manager keeps proving themselves. I have faith he will pass this test, but if he doesn’t then it’s something for him to learn from.



Apart from the summer just gone there has been no lack of investment. Every other summer of his tenure has seen at least one player arrive who is still integral to the current side. And there have been no magic tricks, he has been getting the best out of a group of very good players. I call that ‘doing his job very well’. Avb didn’t. And you speak in past tenses. So far yes, Pochettino has proved himself at every hurdle, so in a sense you are right, all her has achieved proves he is great, but a manager is only as good as his current achievements, so just because he has proved himself so far, doesn’t mean there is no pressure for him to pass this next test. In fact, I’d say that he expects far more from himself than you appear to expect from him, and that is probably why he will pass this test, because he does appear to be a winner.



Injury ravaged squad with best player and other most on form player, yes he has to prove that he can keep us at this level, and I never said I’d start doubting him if we falter here, I said that if he’s as good as we think he is (I said we, that quite literally includes me), then he has to prove that he can keep us competing in this next period with these challenges. If he can’t, and we slip away because we suddenly don’t have the benefit of the world’s best striker against Leicester, Watford, Burnley, Newcastle and Fulham, then he has room for growth. That’s not a put down, that’s merely what he will expect from himself to.

You lot are so precious. You infer a put down towards Pochettino where there isn’t one, one of you feel the need to unnecessarily have a dig at the chairman when he is in no way relevant to this discussion, when all I said was that this is a big test for Pochettino and he needs to prove himself, for his sake and ours.



This guy got it. He’s better than all of you.

The following gents then expanded with:

Could it not be argued that it's the in-built fear factor of yesteryear rearing it's ugly head once more.

Maybe some are so apprehensive after witnessing Spurs falter time after time when on the cusp of great achievements.

The current injury crisis allowing for the dread to reappear. I personally think we will get through this tricky period, and yes the upcoming fixtures still see us strong man v man league wise...but, no guarantees of winning any football match.

On that basis. I just try and enjoy for what it is...C'est la Vie.

I don't know about BBLG, but the thing that really gets my goat is the absolute certainty with which some doom-mongers post. It's almost like they want us to cock up just so they can say "I told you so".

Which in kind I expanded on with:

And by just enjoying things for what they are, you will derive far more pleasure from supporting this great club and be far more measured in your appraisal of any given circumstance. I would agree on the point that a lot of this negativity is based on some form of Spurs related PTSD apart from the fact that I am convinced a lot it is coming from more recent fans who weren't that dedicated/ loyal in the bad old days anyway and are really just a bit jealous of the mega rich clubs, because those of us who were around when things were genuinely going through tough times are in the main quite appreciative of how far we've come and from how far behind.



Absolutely what gets me. I feel like this site is populated with people who are ENIC/ Levy haters first and Spurs supporters second, who are far more concerned in saying "see, we've fucked up because we didn't spend £75m on Shineylio di Newplayerinho" than they are in actually watching what's in front of us and judging it for what it is. At the end of the day you can only have 11 players on the pitch at any given time and apart from Barcelona and Man City this season, there hasn't been any occasion this season where we'd not have at least half the players in a combined xi. Who signed the cheques to sign those players? Who orchestrated the development of our youth academy and coaching facilities to improve those players? Must be some kind of mythical spaghetti monster, because Levy is just a stingy **** who wants us to fail apparently.

Then Paolo decided to follow jurgens lead:

A lot of fans, including myself, believe that a net transfer spend of £29m since Poch got here isn't really good enough for a club that's supposed to want to challenge.

And I, as ever, reverted to cold, hard, indisputable and easily available evidence to support my disagreement with him.

@Archibald&Crooks took the high ground and threw out a doh, but in fairness his opinion isn’t exactly a mystery to us, and @scat1620 did likewise but I’m not sure I want to live in a world where I agree with anything he believes.

This didn’t at all start with me trying to create debate where any was necessar, this started with my innocuous comment about this next 7 weeks being a big test off whether our manager is as good as we believe being used as a trigger for people to unnecessary bring up investment and net spend. I introduced no such topic, merely reacted to those who felt it appropriate to grind their axes.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

I think you’ll find (see, I like evidence) it all started with this:



To which jurgen brought up the issue of investment/ lack of in direct response to:



To which I responded with:



The following gents then expanded with:



Which in kind I expanded on with:



Then Paolo decided to follow jurgens lead:



And I, as ever, reverted to cold, hard, indisputable and easily available evidence to support my disagreement with him.

@Archibald&Crooks took the high ground and threw out a doh, but in fairness his opinion isn’t exactly a mystery to us, and @scat1620 did likewise but I’m not sure I want to live in a world where I agree with anything he believes.

What is my opinion please?

Oh and i bow to your expertise in the high ground because everything you’ve posted reeks of it

 

[scat1620]

[massive wall of indignant text]

Good job you're not a precious type, LeGin.

You lot are so precious.

 

[Paolo10]

The Chairman of the BSODL has spoken and Daniel is doing everything right.

 

[mattyspurs]

The Chairman of the BSODL has spoken and Daniel is doing everything right.

To be fair, and BBLG doesn’t need me fighting his corner, but he didn’t say that he was doing everything right.

I think all Levy supporters rightly criticised him for the pathetic display in the summer window

 

[Paolo10]

It's not just one window though, is it?

 

[wrd]

I think you’ll find (see, I like evidence) it all started with this:



To which jurgen brought up the issue of investment/ lack of in direct response to:



To which I responded with:



The following gents then expanded with:




Which in kind I expanded on with:



Then Paolo decided to follow jurgens lead:



And I, as ever, reverted to cold, hard, indisputable and easily available evidence to support my disagreement with him.

@Archibald&Crooks took the high ground and threw out a doh, but in fairness his opinion isn’t exactly a mystery to us, and @scat1620 did likewise but I’m not sure I want to live in a world where I agree with anything he believes.

This didn’t at all start with me trying to create debate where any was necessar, this started with my innocuous comment about this next 7 weeks being a big test off whether our manager is as good as we believe being used as a trigger for people to unnecessary bring up investment and net spend. I introduced no such topic, merely reacted to those who felt it appropriate to grind their axes.

Yeah you're right, one person saying hes done well despite lack of investment really did warrant the calling out of negativity and levy hate along with all the posts after. My bad.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

What is my opinion please?

Oh and i bow to your expertise in the high ground because everything you’ve posted reeks of it

I take no high ground, I just don’t deal in sensationalist bullshit. As for your opinion, in this instance it’s that you think my opinion is a load of bollocks, or else you’d not have given me a doh rating. As for your overriding opinion beyond this conversation, I would infer from you years of posting that it’s that you think the club should have a different attitude towards transfers. I may have misinferred there but, just in case I haven’t, I have no issue with you are anyone holding this opinion, I just have little time for the tired, misinformed lies that there hasn’t been investment in players to improve the squad during Pochettino’s tenure, or the focus on net spend without any contextual analysis.

And I take no high ground, I just refuse to accept an opinion which is not backed up by substance in an age where every bit of information needed to form a valid argument is available at a fingers click, not will I be told I have goaded people into a Levy/ anti Levy debate when the who thing begin with other posters bringing such things up in response to my post that, broken down, said nothing more than ‘we think Pochettino is well good at what he does, this next run of matches is a test of that with all these injuries and stuff’. And yes, I have bitten, because you’ve been facetious instead of actually contributing.

 

[Paolo10]

Am sure we'll get a dose of positivity when the team's announced shortly.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

More people bothered by the bottom line than the sport now ... I'm going to go watch Mr potato head junior tell me why United should be all over Poch come the end of the season, that'll cheer me up.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

To be fair, and BBLG doesn’t need me fighting his corner, but he didn’t say that he was doing everything right.

I think all Levy supporters rightly criticised him for the pathetic display in the summer window

Myself included. I criticised him wholly, but because I refuse to buy into a bogus rhetoric created by those who simply refuse to accept the good he has done I get labelled some sort of blind happy clapper.

Yeah you're right, one person saying hes done well despite lack of investment really did warrant the calling out of negativity and levy hate along with all the posts after. My bad.

Calling out? This isn’t WWE for fuck sake, and I didn’t call anyone out, I responded to someone who responded to me. But thank you for your flippancy (no i am getting on my high horse), it very much gratifies me knowing that you aren’t able to respond with anything more evidential or substantial.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

I take no high ground, I just don’t deal in sensationalist bullshit. As for your opinion, in this instance it’s that you think my opinion is a load of bollocks, or else you’d not have given me a doh rating. As for your overriding opinion beyond this conversation, I would infer from you years of posting that it’s that you think the club should have a different attitude towards transfers. I may have misinferred there but, just in case I haven’t, I have no issue with you are anyone holding this opinion, I just have little time for the tired, misinformed lies that there hasn’t been investment in players to improve the squad during Pochettino’s tenure, or the focus on net spend without any contractual analysis.

And I take no high ground, I just refuse to accept an opinion which is not backed up by substance in an age where every bit of information needed to form a valid argument is available at a fingers click, not will I be told I have goaded people into a Levy/ anti Levy debate when the who thing begin with other posters bringing such things up in response to my post that, broken down, said nothing more than ‘we think Pochettino is well good at what he does, this next run of matches is a test of that with all these injuries and stuff’. And yes, I have bitten, because you’ve been facetious instead of actually contributing.

You'll 'not be told' but are quite happy to do the telling and you aren't taking the high ground. Just because you SAY you aren't taking the high ground doesn't make it so.

As for what my opinion is that's a bigger half arsed answer than what Daniel Levy gives the supporters trust at question time It seems my opinion is a bit of a mystery to you after all. Here, have a ladder. You'll need it to dismount.

 

[SpursDave88]

The man just oozes class. He plays the media perfectly.

Look at all these other managers of late, or currently at the supposed 'big clubs'...

Klopp's constant punching everytime Scouse score is way over the top and just embarrassing. Add to this his constant ignorance to the rules if Liverpool fail to win or struggle.

Mourinho. Well it's all about him and he's prepared to publicly chuck any player under the bus.

Sarri. He now has come out and publicly questioned Chelsea's motivation regarding player performance.

Conte at Chelsea previously had aired gripes with the board in public.

Meanwhile...back at the ranch, the cool, charasmatic Poch, happily goes about his business safe in the knowledge that his rivals are mere pretenders.

I love Pochettino...but this post reeks of the loser mentality that still permeates the fans and board.

Klopp has actually won trophies, will win the league his season and manages up well since he gets his board and chairman to buy the players he needs.

Mourinho - behind Ferguson - he's one of the most successful managers in the PL era and has won the CL twice.

Conte - Was only in this country for two years - won the PL and FA cup. He aired his griped with the board in public because he simply refused to accept being forced to work with one hand tied behind his back. Poch could learn a lot from his approach.

So is this another "trophy" we win - along with putting the pressure on, finishing above Arsenal and doing so well despite such a low net spend.

Until he wins something...Poch is a pretender also and I don't think he can do it under the constraints at Spurs. Nor do I think anyone else would.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

The bat signal has gone out.

Hold on to your walnuts.

 

[yankspurs]

I see we’ve been having alittle fun in here. Any particular reason or have people gotten it through their heads that the cheap bald one is cheap?

 

[wrd]

I take no high ground, I just don’t deal in sensationalist bullshit. As for your opinion, in this instance it’s that you think my opinion is a load of bollocks, or else you’d not have given me a doh rating. As for your overriding opinion beyond this conversation, I would infer from you years of posting that it’s that you think the club should have a different attitude towards transfers. I may have misinferred there but, just in case I haven’t, I have no issue with you are anyone holding this opinion, I just have little time for the tired, misinformed lies that there hasn’t been investment in players to improve the squad during Pochettino’s tenure, or the focus on net spend without any contextual analysis.

And I take no high ground, I just refuse to accept an opinion which is not backed up by substance in an age where every bit of information needed to form a valid argument is available at a fingers click, not will I be told I have goaded people into a Levy/ anti Levy debate when the who thing begin with other posters bringing such things up in response to my post that, broken down, said nothing more than ‘we think Pochettino is well good at what he does, this next run of matches is a test of that with all these injuries and stuff’. And yes, I have bitten, because you’ve been facetious instead of actually contributing.

So you wont be goaded into a Levy debate which you started.