New Stadium Details And Discussions

[Gb160]

We're the wheelchairs
We're the wheelchairs
We're the wheelchairs Tottenham!

 

[tony0379]

 

[Hoopspur]

I'm probably going to get absolutely crucified for this but I promise I don't mean to cause any offense to anyone. Anyway, here goes...

Since the "virtual" map thing of the stadium came out where you can see the view from your seat this has been bugging me. A big emphasis has been placed since the beginning about us having this single-tier stand which will be an unbroken "wall" of sound etc. and that's one of the main things that has got people excited about the prospect of the new stadium. Now that the virtual map thing is out, however, you can see that they've put a massive row of disabled seating almost all the way across the middle of the south stand. Obviously I've got no issue whatsoever with having wheelchair seating, in fact I think it's great that even people in wheelchairs are going to be able to take part in the south stand experience, but the trouble with the way it's been designed is that the wheelchair row creates a massive gap pretty much all the way across the stand, all but cutting it in half. Obviously it won't be quite as noticeable once people are in it but it still creates a large gap for the obvious reason that you need lots of extra room for wheelchairs to be able to move along the row etc. For me this massively takes away from the intended effect of having an unbroken "wall" of fans in a single tier because it makes the stand effectively look like it's two tiers anyway.

I just feel like there were better options for accommodating wheelchairs than to put a big dividing row across the middle of the stand like that. For example, in the main stands, there are only 1-2 tiny sections for wheelchairs, presumably because the club don't want to take away from the posh seats they can flog for more money, but I reckon they could've taken a few of the wheelchair sections out of the south stand and moved them to the East/West which would've a) given our disabled fans access to better views etc. anyway and b) would've meant the large row of W/C seating didn't break up the effect of the single tier so much.

I dunno, maybe it's just me, but I'm a little disappointed by the way the south stand looks vs what was promised. Like I say, please don't take this the wrong way, I'm not in any way "hating on" people in wheelchairs, if anything my idea is beneficial to disabled fans because it would mean they had better seats. I apoligise if this upsets anyone but that's honestly not my intention.

I kind of pointed this out a couple of years ago in this thread. I’m not going to go back and find it. I agree it spoils the visual sweep of what will be a magnificent curve of people. I would have hoped that there could have been a way to provide equally good views without compromising that design aspect. Possibly not - I’m neither the designer or planner.

 

[Saoirse]

I'm probably going to get absolutely crucified for this but I promise I don't mean to cause any offense to anyone. Anyway, here goes...

Since the "virtual" map thing of the stadium came out where you can see the view from your seat this has been bugging me. A big emphasis has been placed since the beginning about us having this single-tier stand which will be an unbroken "wall" of sound etc. and that's one of the main things that has got people excited about the prospect of the new stadium. Now that the virtual map thing is out, however, you can see that they've put a massive row of disabled seating almost all the way across the middle of the south stand. Obviously I've got no issue whatsoever with having wheelchair seating, in fact I think it's great that even people in wheelchairs are going to be able to take part in the south stand experience, but the trouble with the way it's been designed is that the wheelchair row creates a massive gap pretty much all the way across the stand, all but cutting it in half. Obviously it won't be quite as noticeable once people are in it but it still creates a large gap for the obvious reason that you need lots of extra room for wheelchairs to be able to move along the row etc. For me this massively takes away from the intended effect of having an unbroken "wall" of fans in a single tier because it makes the stand effectively look like it's two tiers anyway.

I just feel like there were better options for accommodating wheelchairs than to put a big dividing row across the middle of the stand like that. For example, in the main stands, there are only 1-2 tiny sections for wheelchairs, presumably because the club don't want to take away from the posh seats they can flog for more money, but I reckon they could've taken a few of the wheelchair sections out of the south stand and moved them to the East/West which would've a) given our disabled fans access to better views etc. anyway and b) would've meant the large row of W/C seating didn't break up the effect of the single tier so much.

I dunno, maybe it's just me, but I'm a little disappointed by the way the south stand looks vs what was promised. Like I say, please don't take this the wrong way, I'm not in any way "hating on" people in wheelchairs, if anything my idea is beneficial to disabled fans because it would mean they had better seats. I apoligise if this upsets anyone but that's honestly not my intention.

I think it's been done deliberately. This way the wheelchair bays can be raised high enough that their view isn't obstructed by fans standing below them. Then the people above can be told to sit down while still being able to see too. Reduces the risk for the club of fans standing through the whole stand.

 

['O Zio]

I kind of pointed this out a couple of years ago in this thread. I’m not going to go back and find it. I agree it spoils the visual sweep of what will be a magnificent curve of people. I would have hoped that there could have been a way to provide equally good views without compromising that design aspect. Possibly not - I’m neither the designer or planner.

If you look at the wheelchair seating in the E/W stands it looks to me like they've just tried to put as little as possible there so that they don't take away from the expensive seating available and as a result have had to cram as much as possible into the "cheap" seats. To me anyway it look like they've just put money making ahead of making the south stand as good as it could possibly be, same applies to the 1882 thing. This all annoys me mostly because the south stand was basically the one thing that was promised to the regular fans as a compromise for rebuilding the rest of the stadium to maximise profits i.e. we're going to knock down your beloved old stadium and rebuild it so we can maximize corporate revenue etc. but if you let us do this we'll build you a big single-tier stand so that ordinary fans can still go there and generate a real atmosphere. But then they've gone and messed it up by a) splitting it in half with wheelchair seats rather than sacrifice a few more premium seats in the E/W stands and b) making the rest of the middle of the south stand into a "corporate light" section for these 1882 lot.

 

[SirHarryHotspur]

If you look at the wheelchair seating in the E/W stands it looks to me like they've just tried to put as little as possible there so that they don't take away from the expensive seating available and as a result have had to cram as much as possible into the "cheap" seats. To me anyway it look like they've just put money making ahead of making the south stand as good as it could possibly be, same applies to the 1882 thing. This all annoys me mostly because the south stand was basically the one thing that was promised to the regular fans as a compromise for rebuilding the rest of the stadium to maximise profits i.e. we're going to knock down your beloved old stadium and rebuild it so we can maximize corporate revenue etc. but if you let us do this we'll build you a big single-tier stand so that ordinary fans can still go there and generate a real atmosphere. But then they've gone and messed it up by a) splitting it in half with wheelchair seats rather than sacrifice a few more premium seats in the E/W stands and b) making the rest of the middle of the south stand into a "corporate light" section for these 1882 lot.

Never read so much rubbish, wheelchair fans has every right to be in the south stand as anyone else. I have some of the so called real fans standing near me at Wembley, the Shelf Side or whatever they call themselves, half of them leave before the end of the game , that's real support for you.

 

['O Zio]

Never read so much rubbish, wheelchair fans has every right to be in the south stand as anyone else. I have some of the so called real fans standing near me at Wembley, the Shelf Side or whatever they call themselves, half of them leave before the end of the game , that's real support for you.

Wooaah hang on a minute. You're completely misinterpreting what I said. When did I ever say they have no right to be in the south stand? In fact I actually said I think it's great that they've got WC seating there so they can be part of it too.

My issue is entirely with the way that the WC seating is arranged, not with the WC fans in any way. For example, rather than having it run all across the middle of the stand, they could've arranged the WC seating in pockets throughout the stand so that it doesn't effectively cut the so-called single-tier stand in half. That way there's equally as much WC seating in the stand so everyone can be part of it, but you don't take away from the "wall" effect.

Plus, like I say if you look at the seating chart there is very little WC seating in the E/W stands and most of it is pushed to the "cheaper" seats, which is clearly not because they're doing a favor to WC fans, it's because they want to charge more money for the E/W tickets and don't want WC fans who pay less to be cutting into their profit margins.

Please don't twist this into me somehow bashing people in wheelchairs, if you actually read what I said I've done nothing of the sort.

 

[spursfan77]

Never read so much rubbish, wheelchair fans has every right to be in the south stand as anyone else. I have some of the so called real fans standing near me at Wembley, the Shelf Side or whatever they call themselves, half of them leave before the end of the game , that's real support for you.

You’ve missed his point. He didn’t say they didn’t deserved to be there at all. Quite the opposite in fact.

 

[Saoirse]

Never read so much rubbish, wheelchair fans has every right to be in the south stand as anyone else. I have some of the so called real fans standing near me at Wembley, the Shelf Side or whatever they call themselves, half of them leave before the end of the game , that's real support for you.

There's clearly a lot of people leaving early at Wembley because it's such a nightmare getting out of and away from the stadium, especially with it being at the opposite end of London from where we normally have to get to. Real fans do have lives outside of football and can't always justify potentially losing an hour to stay for the final five minutes. And none of it has any relevance as to whether splitting the South Stand in half is a particularly bright idea or not. Especially when you could obviously put wheelchair spaces in the stand without doing that - at least have them staggered through the middles, or at the sides, front or back of the stand.

 

[spud]

........But then they've gone and messed it up by a) splitting it in half with wheelchair seats rather than sacrifice a few more premium seats in the E/W stands and b) making the rest of the middle of the south stand into a "corporate light" section for these 1882 lot.

Unless there is more than one '1882 lot', I don't think you understand what it's about. The 1882 movement is hard core fans who want to sit/stand together and sing. It started when they went to youth games and made the atmosphere like a first team match. They are anything but 'corporate'.

EDIT: I now realise that this post is crap. Please ignore

 

[RichieS]

Unless there is more than one '1882 lot', I don't think you understand what it's about. The 1882 movement is hard core fans who want to sit/stand together and sing. It started when they went to youth games and made the atmosphere like a first team match. They are anything but 'corporate'.

The "not-quite corporate" £2200 season tickets in the new ground are branded 1882.

 

[LukaMotion]

I'm probably going to get absolutely crucified for this but I promise I don't mean to cause any offense to anyone. Anyway, here goes...

Since the "virtual" map thing of the stadium came out where you can see the view from your seat this has been bugging me. A big emphasis has been placed since the beginning about us having this single-tier stand which will be an unbroken "wall" of sound etc. and that's one of the main things that has got people excited about the prospect of the new stadium. Now that the virtual map thing is out, however, you can see that they've put a massive row of disabled seating almost all the way across the middle of the south stand. Obviously I've got no issue whatsoever with having wheelchair seating, in fact I think it's great that even people in wheelchairs are going to be able to take part in the south stand experience, but the trouble with the way it's been designed is that the wheelchair row creates a massive gap pretty much all the way across the stand, all but cutting it in half. Obviously it won't be quite as noticeable once people are in it but it still creates a large gap for the obvious reason that you need lots of extra room for wheelchairs to be able to move along the row etc. For me this massively takes away from the intended effect of having an unbroken "wall" of fans in a single tier because it makes the stand effectively look like it's two tiers anyway.

I just feel like there were better options for accommodating wheelchairs than to put a big dividing row across the middle of the stand like that. For example, in the main stands, there are only 1-2 tiny sections for wheelchairs, presumably because the club don't want to take away from the posh seats they can flog for more money, but I reckon they could've taken a few of the wheelchair sections out of the south stand and moved them to the East/West which would've a) given our disabled fans access to better views etc. anyway and b) would've meant the large row of W/C seating didn't break up the effect of the single tier so much.

I dunno, maybe it's just me, but I'm a little disappointed by the way the south stand looks vs what was promised. Like I say, please don't take this the wrong way, I'm not in any way "hating on" people in wheelchairs, if anything my idea is beneficial to disabled fans because it would mean they had better seats. I apoligise if this upsets anyone but that's honestly not my intention.

A couple of things worth considering with regards to the WC seats in the south stand.

1. For the club to include the future proofed safe standing area the rake of the lower part of the south stand had to be a lot less than the rake of the upper section. If the upper section were at the same rake as the lower you'd lose far more seats than the WC ones take up.
2. Because of the rake differences there was always going to be a split of sorts which is an opportunistic location to put WC seats.
3. I believe the plan is for the concrete wall behind the WC sections to feature a mural/be painted so that it will blend in for the cameras. It shouldn't look like there is a gap there at all.
4. WC fans deserve the chance to sit in the south stand too, and surely if the WC seats were all in the east or west they would be more expensive?

 

['O Zio]

Unless there is more than one '1882 lot', I don't think you understand what it's about. The 1882 movement is hard core fans who want to sit/stand together and sing. It started when they went to youth games and made the atmosphere like a first team match. They are anything but 'corporate'.

I'm not talking about that I'm talking about the new stadium. There's a whole load of "premium" seats on sale in the south stand for like 2500 that get you access to the "1882 club" that has a private bar etc. It's basically like a corporate light, like I said.

 

['O Zio]

A couple of things worth considering with regards to the WC seats in the south stand.

1. For the club to include the future proofed safe standing area the rake of the lower part of the south stand had to be a lot less than the rake of the upper section. If the upper section were at the same rake as the lower you'd lose far more seats than the WC ones take up.
2. Because of the rake differences there was always going to be a split of sorts which is an opportunistic location to put WC seats.
3. I believe the plan is for the concrete wall behind the WC sections to feature a mural/be painted so that it will blend in for the cameras. It shouldn't look like there is a gap there at all.
4. WC fans deserve the chance to sit in the south stand too, and surely if the WC seats were all in the east or west they would be more expensive?

1. I understand it couldn't be the same angle/rake all the way through, but that's only amplified by the location of the WC seating in a long row across it.
2. As above
3. That's a decent compromise if true. The way it looks on the interactive chart thing it stands out a mile, but I suppose if it's painted dark blue or something it'll blend in a bit
4. I whole-heartedly agree, as I said in my original post, I think it's great that there are WC seats in the south stand too. I've never had any issue with WC seats being included, that's not what this is about. It's the way they're just in one big long line virtually across the whole middle of the stand that I have issues with because it ruins the illusion of having a massive single tier to me. I think there were better option is all. I don't want WC to be exclusively confined to the east/west stands, my point on that was that there's almost no WC seating there and instead they've put almost all of it in the south stand. If they'd spread it around more evenly it wouldn't be such a visible gap in the south stand, which ruins the visual effect that we've been sold as a "single tier/wall" when it not looks basically like it's two tiers anyway. If the club really cared about WC seating then they could've easily had more of it in the E/W stand and not made it more expensive.

 

[Dunc2610]

So people in WCs can't sit in the middle of the stand cause you think it spoils how the stand might look? Who cares, you're there to watch the game not the stands!

 

[spud]

The "not-quite corporate" £2200 season tickets in the new ground are branded 1882.

I'm not talking about that I'm talking about the new stadium. There's a whole load of "premium" seats on sale in the south stand for like 2500 that get you access to the "1882 club" that has a private bar etc. It's basically like a corporate light, like I said.

Fair enough. I stand corrected. Thanks.

 

['O Zio]

So people in WCs can't sit in the middle of the stand cause you think it spoils how the stand might look? Who cares, you're there to watch the game not the stands!

I'm not saying they can't sit in the stand, I'm just saying it shouldn't be a massive long row that runs across pretty much the entire stand. The could have had small "mini-blocks" of wheelchair seating dotted all around the south stand so it would be the same number of seats but wouldn't completely break up the stand like it does in the current design. If you're going to promise a single-tier, uninterrupted "wall" then that's what it should be. Like I say, that's the one thing that was meant to be specifically for the ordinary matchday fans rather than the corporate/tourist crowd

 

[Shadydan]

I bet @'O Zio parks in disabled bays

 

[arnoldlayne]

Most single-use plastics now reside at the Etihad or Stamford Bridge...

They've also got plenty of disposable fans who switch allegiance and sulk if they don't win everything immediately

 

[SirHarryHotspur]

Wooaah hang on a minute. You're completely misinterpreting what I said. When did I ever say they have no right to be in the south stand? In fact I actually said I think it's great that they've got WC seating there so they can be part of it too.

My issue is entirely with the way that the WC seating is arranged, not with the WC fans in any way. For example, rather than having it run all across the middle of the stand, they could've arranged the WC seating in pockets throughout the stand so that it doesn't effectively cut the so-called single-tier stand in half. That way there's equally as much WC seating in the stand so everyone can be part of it, but you don't take away from the "wall" effect.

Plus, like I say if you look at the seating chart there is very little WC seating in the E/W stands and most of it is pushed to the "cheaper" seats, which is clearly not because they're doing a favor to WC fans, it's because they want to charge more money for the E/W tickets and don't want WC fans who pay less to be cutting into their profit margins.

Please don't twist this into me somehow bashing people in wheelchairs, if you actually read what I said I've done nothing of the sort.

The south stand is perfectly designed so that wheelchair fans can see over the heads of fans in the so called safe standing area with them standing up even though at the moment the lower rows should sit down according to current law. The rows behind the wheelchairs are also designed so that they can see over the heads of any carers with the wheelchair fans if they happen to e standing so that the upper rows of the south stand can remain seated which is their right. To start placing wheelchair positions elsewhere in the south stand is not feasible it would interfere with sight lines also it would not be possible with the current design of the open atrium effect. Wheelchair users need lifts to get them into position , the south stand only has lifts to level 2 , approx. row 30 , to put them any where else in the south stand would mean completely redesigning the whole structure. As I said wheelchair fans have every right to be in amongst the home end if they wish and to start saying they should be put in the east or west stands is frankly discrimination. The south stand looks pretty intimidating as it is , personally I am not disabled and will be nowhere near the south stand .