New Stadium Details And Discussions

[arnoldlayne]

Have they not been designed so we can light them up and change colour at night?

 

[Phischy]

Have they not been designed so we can light them up and change colour at night?

Indeed they have, they have led lights which are largely situated behind the 'open' angled shutters.

 

[longtimespur]

They also have machinery behind there that needs keeping cooled.

 

[whitesocks]

I'm not so sure we should be quite so dismissive of concerns especially when your answer is a somewhat appeal to authority.

Mistakes get made in these types of decisions. Constantly.

I went through a poorly made pitch decision being a fan of the Houston Texans and they tested that system out as well and obviously you could apply the same line drop of "we'll just take a flyer on a dangerous system that will injure our players and utterly ruin our performances at our otherwise-painstakingly-designed new home." to their project as well except it turns out they did mess up.

Plus lets not act as if Levy wasn't somewhat bending over backwards to get the NFL here. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if the pitch isn't as good as a natural pitch is in the other stadiums. I think it's fairly obvious compromises were made on our end to entice them to us.

Do I think it's going to be an absolute disaster? No. I don't. But do I think that this entire stadium build is going to go exactly 100% to plan and there won't be cock ups? No. I don't believe that either. I think having concerns is valid and shouldn't be so quickly derided and shot down.

In fact this whole pitch design is brand new is it not? I think it's fairly naive to think that we're going to do something brand new that no one else has done before and it's going to go over 100% with zero hitches.

Absolutely.
You do not have to be an engineer to recognise there are competing priorities here.
And the quality of the pitch is not number 1.

In fact it was not number 1 at old WHL - once the roofs were built to cover all spectators, the grass suffered. Last season apart, there wasn't much grass in any of the corners for years - just sand, but it was more important that as many fans as possible were as close to the pitch as possible, and were sheltered to some extent.

The new stadium is also supposedly tight, so that will still be a problem plus we have no idea the effect of the trays on the grass.
Plus we don't know if the ball bounces the same way - I thought it odd that they didn't get some of the players filmed on the tray they had at the training ground, to reassure everyone.

The reason they didn't I guess is that we are all stuck with the results regardless. The engineers have done their best, and if that means the ball is a bit dead near the joins, or a bit lively, or the turf is a bit harder/softer, wet/dry, worn/lush in areas, then that is the price we pay for a retractable pitch.

Likewise if the NFL pitch has 2 bands of slightly harder turf running the length where the rails are buried, once again, that's the way is has to be.

Players will blame the joins/trays every now and then when they fall, or misplace a pass, however well the pitch turns out. But unless someone gets seriously hurt, then we are all stuck with the results.

Hey, you never know, it might be fine. I don't rule that out!

 

[nicdic]

Absolutely.
You do not have to be an engineer to recognise there are competing priorities here.
And the quality of the pitch is not number 1.

In fact it was not number 1 at old WHL - once the roofs were built to cover all spectators, the grass suffered. Last season apart, there wasn't much grass in any of the corners for years - just sand, but it was more important that as many fans as possible were as close to the pitch as possible, and were sheltered to some extent.

The new stadium is also supposedly tight, so that will still be a problem plus we have no idea the effect of the trays on the grass.
Plus we don't know if the ball bounces the same way - I thought it odd that they didn't get some of the players filmed on the tray they had at the training ground, to reassure everyone.

The reason they didn't I guess is that we are all stuck with the results regardless. The engineers have done their best, and if that means the ball is a bit dead near the joins, or a bit lively, or the turf is a bit harder/softer, wet/dry, worn/lush in areas, then that is the price we pay for a retractable pitch.

Likewise if the NFL pitch has 2 bands of slightly harder turf running the length where the rails are buried, once again, that's the way is has to be.

Players will blame the joins/trays every now and then when they fall, or misplace a pass, however well the pitch turns out. But unless someone gets seriously hurt, then we are all stuck with the results.

Hey, you never know, it might be fine. I don't rule that out!

WHL groundsmen actually did routinely win awards.

All PL clubs now use mixes of synthetic turf, and use artificial light systems to maintain pitch quality. There won't be issues with the state of the playing surface in that regard. If anything, we should have far more control.

The reason they haven't shown any footage of it yet, is far more likely to be the fact that the pitch isn't in yet. When the pitch goes in I'm sure they'll do loads of stuff on Twitter and the like about the testing and the technology as they have with every other step along the way.

 

[thebenjamin]

Only thing I'm slightly concerned about is that the bounce might be a bit different with these trays underneath to a regular surface. In the same way that Monaco's has extra high bounce due to the car park underneath. Probably be fine, but if there's one thing that concerns me it's that.

 

[arthurgrimsdell]

Absolutely.
You do not have to be an engineer to recognise there are competing priorities here.
And the quality of the pitch is not number 1.

In fact it was not number 1 at old WHL - once the roofs were built to cover all spectators, the grass suffered. Last season apart, there wasn't much grass in any of the corners for years - just sand, but it was more important that as many fans as possible were as close to the pitch as possible, and were sheltered to some extent.

The new stadium is also supposedly tight, so that will still be a problem plus we have no idea the effect of the trays on the grass.
Plus we don't know if the ball bounces the same way - I thought it odd that they didn't get some of the players filmed on the tray they had at the training ground, to reassure everyone.

The reason they didn't I guess is that we are all stuck with the results regardless. The engineers have done their best, and if that means the ball is a bit dead near the joins, or a bit lively, or the turf is a bit harder/softer, wet/dry, worn/lush in areas, then that is the price we pay for a retractable pitch.

Likewise if the NFL pitch has 2 bands of slightly harder turf running the length where the rails are buried, once again, that's the way is has to be.

Players will blame the joins/trays every now and then when they fall, or misplace a pass, however well the pitch turns out. But unless someone gets seriously hurt, then we are all stuck with the results.

Hey, you never know, it might be fine. I don't rule that out!

I can only assume that you are a young man (or possibly woman). The old West Stand was completely under cover from about 1908: the lower level was known as the Enclosure. The East, South and North Stands were only partially covered until the late eighties, early nineties. when they were redeveloped. The 80-90% of the pitch throughout the fifties, to at least the eighties was, to my visual memory, in an appalling state as soon as winter weather arrived, as were most football grounds at that time. Ours was said to be worse than most because it was under the level of the water table of the River Lee close by. It was only when professionally qualified groundsmen started to be employed that pitches began to improve. Then drainage was improved, different grasses were used, some, like ours interwoven with plastic, and pitch lighting was introduced to counter the fact that grass doesn't tend to grow in the winter.
You state that last season apart there was only sand not grass in the corners of the pitch. That is hyperbole in the extreme. Our pitch was in the running for best kept pitch for years on end, and won on more than one occasion.
You make various assertions about problems based on what you don't know, assuming that the Club doesn't know either. I suspect that they have done a great deal of testing off-site, otherwise what would be the point of having replica trays installed at Hotspur Way?
There may be problems with the pitch, but you not knowing the answers doesn't mean there will be .

 

[cider spurs]

Only thing I'm slightly concerned about is that the bounce might be a bit different with these trays underneath to a regular surface. In the same way that Monaco's has extra high bounce due to the car park underneath. Probably be fine, but if there's one thing that concerns me it's that.

I'm concerned you're concerned.

To help ease your concerns...if there is an extra high bounce, or different bounce, it will be on our home pitch and hopefully something our players can adjust to seeming they'll be playing there on a regular basis.

As for visiting teams...un-feckin-lucky.

 

[Saoirse]

Only thing I'm slightly concerned about is that the bounce might be a bit different with these trays underneath to a regular surface. In the same way that Monaco's has extra high bounce due to the car park underneath. Probably be fine, but if there's one thing that concerns me it's that.

A slightly odd surface that we're used to and the opposition aren't is an advantage, not a problem.

 

[coys200]

There’s a bit of me that wishes we’d gone to 70k. I know the trainsport issues etc. But once crossrail 2 happens it would be less of an issue. I’ve no doubt we could fill 70k and it would be a real statement. I wonder if there’s any room for further expansion. I guess it could only be north( have to move lillywhite house) east - would have to move the road? but it’s more a minor road so feasible I guess. If we have major sustained success maybe considered in 20 years.

 

[yiddopaul]

I'm concerned you're concerned.

To help ease your concerns...if there is an extra high bounce, or different bounce, it will be on our home pitch and hopefully something our players can adjust to seeming they'll be playing there on a regular basis.

As for visiting teams...un-feckin-lucky.

Can’t imagine the bounce will be any different from a normal pitch. The trays weigh about 9,000 ton total on steel and concrete. I’m guessing the soil will be 2 ft thick? (Just a guess).

 

[whitesocks]

I can only assume that you are a young man (or possibly woman). The old West Stand was completely under cover from about 1908: the lower level was known as the Enclosure. The East, South and North Stands were only partially covered until the late eighties, early nineties. when they were redeveloped. The 80-90% of the pitch throughout the fifties, to at least the eighties was, to my visual memory, in an appalling state as soon as winter weather arrived, as were most football grounds at that time. Ours was said to be worse than most because it was under the level of the water table of the River Lee close by. It was only when professionally qualified groundsmen started to be employed that pitches began to improve. Then drainage was improved, different grasses were used, some, like ours interwoven with plastic, and pitch lighting was introduced to counter the fact that grass doesn't tend to grow in the winter.
You state that last season apart there was only sand not grass in the corners of the pitch. That is hyperbole in the extreme. Our pitch was in the running for best kept pitch for years on end, and won on more than one occasion.
You make various assertions about problems based on what you don't know, assuming that the Club doesn't know either. I suspect that they have done a great deal of testing off-site, otherwise what would be the point of having replica trays installed at Hotspur Way?
There may be problems with the pitch, but you not knowing the answers doesn't mean there will be .

I think of myself as young - does that help?

I am surprised you cannot remember the players having difficulty placing the ball for a corner as it kept rolling away. There was no grass anywhere near the corner flags and that was very noticeable for quite a few years. This is all very recent. Fact!!
It is interesting that the the pitch was fine for the final season - maybe taking the corner out the East stand made all the difference. Maybe the weather was better for grass that year. Dunno, but interesting.

Yes they installed a tray at Hotspur way, but that would have been more to test the concept, mechanics and the competence of those doing the installation. If you are telling me they hooked up sprinklers and drainage, undersoil heating, built an 8 floor structure next to it and had the players kick it about a bit all winter then fair enough, they have been very thorough, but living things are still unpredictable.

Anyway for more factual based concerns, google "Veltins-Arena damaged pitch and worn grass" images. That's a retractable pitch too.

 

[cider spurs]

Can’t imagine the bounce will be any different from a normal pitch. The trays weigh about 9,000 ton total on steel and concrete. I’m guessing the soil will be 2 ft thick? (Just a guess).

I wasn't concerned. It appeared the @thebenjamin was.

 

[purple8]

I think of myself as young - does that help?

I am surprised you cannot remember the players having difficulty placing the ball for a corner as it kept rolling away. There was no grass anywhere near the corner flags and that was very noticeable for quite a few years. This is all very recent. Fact!!
It is interesting that the the pitch was fine for the final season - maybe taking the corner out the East stand made all the difference. Maybe the weather was better for grass that year. Dunno, but interesting.

Yes they installed a tray at Hotspur way, but that would have been more to test the concept, mechanics and the competence of those doing the installation. If you are telling me they hooked up sprinklers and drainage, undersoil heating, built an 8 floor structure next to it and had the players kick it about a bit all winter then fair enough, they have been very thorough, but living things are still unpredictable.

Anyway for more factual based concerns, google "Veltins-Arena damaged pitch and worn grass" images. That's a retractable pitch too.

Googled all I could find were images from 2010 . I would hope pitch technology has moved on a bit since then.

 

[coys200]

You need to go check the video of the trial at Hotspur way. It will be perfect I have no doubts at all.

 

[spids]

I am more concerned that the weight of the pitch trays (especially when sodden), combined with the weight of the tracks and the underlying concrete base to the american football pitch, will be too much for the foundations and it will all fall in on the underground car park and facilities room underneath it all. I do know that engineers can work all this out and ensure it's strong enough, and whenever I go down the canary wharf tube station escalators I can never understand how the park above and all the shops don't come down on the cavernous underground station. It's all engineering magic and us normal folk should not worry our small, non-engineering minds about it.

 

[Metalhead]

I am more concerned that the weight of the pitch trays (especially when sodden), combined with the weight of the tracks and the underlying concrete base to the american football pitch, will be too much for the foundations and it will all fall in on the underground car park and facilities room underneath it all. I do know that engineers can work all this out and ensure it's strong enough, and whenever I go down the canary wharf tube station escalators I can never understand how the park above and all the shops don't come down on the cavernous underground station. It's all engineering magic and us normal folk should not worry our small, non-engineering minds about it.

Ha ha pretty much that last sentence.

 

[Dougal]

When the pitch collapses during the first game there’s going to be large helpings of humble pie distributed here.

 

[tottenmal]

I am more concerned that the weight of the pitch trays (especially when sodden), combined with the weight of the tracks and the underlying concrete base to the american football pitch, will be too much for the foundations and it will all fall in on the underground car park and facilities room underneath it all. I do know that engineers can work all this out and ensure it's strong enough, and whenever I go down the canary wharf tube station escalators I can never understand how the park above and all the shops don't come down on the cavernous underground station. It's all engineering magic and us normal folk should not worry our small, non-engineering minds about it.

There is no basement underneath the retractable pitch. All concrete and dirt.

Isn’t there reports of the underground car park at Monaco affecting the bounce of the ball? The sand isn’t that deep and it effects the pitch? I may have that wrong but if it is the case I don’t think people concerns about a 2ft deep soil on a metal tray affecting the pitch are unfounded. But I think long term it’ll work to our advantage.

 

[tommyt]

When the pitch collapses during the first game there’s going to be large helpings of humble pie distributed here.

I don't think that there are going to be any major disasters with the new pitch from a mechanical perspective and I'm positive that from a theoretical perspective the engineers will have thought through all the concerns that have been raised here and then some.

I suppose this is the forum to discuss our concerns or the "what ifs" even if they are unfounded and to hear the replies from those who have more knowledge to allay those concerns.

There's nothing malicious in the questioning, just a curiosity. I want nothing more than the NWHL to be perfect and free of criticism.