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New Stadium Details And Discussions

Lighty64

I believe
Aug 24, 2010
10,400
12,476
Sorry, but we need to stop collectively seeing things that way. It's absolutely great when the relationship is team-supporter. But right now we see ourselves as supporters, and Levy sees us as customers whose bank accounts he wants to drain. He's mislead 42,000 Season Ticket Holders into making a huge purchase at an inflated cost. It's not right.

he hasn't mislead you though, when the prices come out at the start of April or late March, he didn't know there would be an issue that would delay it this long. they didn't even know when the fixtures where annouced
 

davidmatzdorf

Front Page Gadfly
Jun 7, 2004
18,106
45,030
It seems it was the fire suppression system that failed and had nothing to do with the test event.
Someone along the line is accountable. If this really is down to fire suppression, either someone in design has come up with a gigantic flaw which everybody's missed, or someone has made a gigantic mess of fitting huge amounts of equipment that again everybody's missed till now. It beggars belief that something could be so badly wrong it causes a two-month minimum delay and nobody had any idea until today - the only way that's possible is if several people have made a hash of things. If it's Levy and his team, he's responsible. If it isn't, then he's responsible for making sure that whoever's fucked up is on the line for the money, and that this finds its way back to the club and the supporters who've been let down.
You can't get a safety certificate, or open a stadium without appropriate fire systems.

All the talk about the veil and the paving - no chance was that ever a critical path issue.

You can open a stadium without veiling, it just won't look as pretty - you can put the paving in with 7 days of night shifts if you have to.

But dodgy fire systems - with this place fitted out like a hotel - are a big no no.
No, it's more that I can't believe someone's fucked up the fire systems so badly it's going to take a minimum of two months to fix. That's a pretty catastrophic fuck-up.

It may well be that the fire suppression system "failed": that something was installed that did not work and now needs to be removed and replaced with an identical system that does work.

It's also possible that the Fire Brigade and/or Building Control set out performance specifications, the relevant subcontractor proposed a solution that was intended to meet these and, when tested, it worked but did not meet the requirements.

A third possibility - a really common and outrageous one that I have encountered several times - is that the approach was agreed with the relevant authority and specified and installed accordingly, but the person with whom it had been agreed left their job and the replacement turned out to be a pedantic, inflexible arsehole with a differing interpretation of the regulations, who turned up on site and condemned everything that had previously been agreed, even in writing.

I could go on, but you get the point, which is that this kind of thing, like nearly everything about development, is always complicated and often no one's clear fault. There's an element of lottery about building approvals. Partly, this is because building control officers have personal liability for their approvals - not collective, departmental responsibility, but individual legal liability. It encourages them to be personally wilful and inflexible.

Partly it's because there is a culture of choosing the lowest tender, even when the lowest tender is promising a cheap solution that they insist will be approved in Haringey, because they had it approved in Hull (or wherever). It doesn't necessarily follow.

This kind of shit happens all he time. I reckon half of residential developments have a last-minute fuck-up of this nature. Whose fault is it? Ask the solicitors, they're the only ones making money from it.

I've been on the same mantra for about seven years here: development is complicated and full of risk, and all you can do is to manage the risk, you can't eliminate it.

This is what we find.
 

Reece

Shutterbug
May 27, 2005
2,860
1,779
Disappointed.

I’m not sure how many games they’ll get ST holders to attend at Wembley in these first few games even if they’re free! As long as the lure of the new stadium is there I can only think the comparison to attending a game at Wembley will put a number of people off.

Any chance of them delaying this all the way til 19/20 does anyone think?
 

Lighty64

I believe
Aug 24, 2010
10,400
12,476
I know the company that has been given the contract for the Car park beneath the stadium and they have been delayed in starting for a second time (first told to start in June and then August) and have not been given a date when they can begin work yet But i imagine that is one of the non essential things that will be done.

It's quite a secure car park as you'd imagine being under a place that holds major sporting events.

it is essential though, in amongst all the abled bodied ST holders that paid a fortune, there is quite a lot of disabled people myself included but only a member) that can't go to games without having parking
 

Fredo

Realist
Jun 8, 2018
3,934
17,956
I'm sorry but it's like traits of Kroenke are appearing in Levy - refusing to spend in the window, charging the highest ticket prices, poor communication with the fans. Please God don't let us become like them.
 

theShiznit

Well-Known Member
Jul 26, 2004
17,800
23,813
it is essential though, in amongst all the abled bodied ST holders that paid a fortune, there is quite a lot of disabled people myself included but only a member) that can't go to games without having parking
I think the underground car park is just for VIP's/staff/players etc (Maybe wrong)

From what i know of the security needed to pass through to enter, i doubt it will be open to the unwashed masses...

The surface car park maybe open sooner.
 

St José Dominguez

Well-Known Member
Jul 15, 2014
3,592
11,648
was never going to be ready - you could tell from the photos. the safety test is undoubtedly true but is maybe being used for cover. I understand the disappointment but 27 months was always ambitious to me.

It would be far too convenient for something like this to arise if the stadium wasn't going to be ready anyway. Other alternative is too tin hat to suggest, that they made up a vague excuse to try to save face.

All my excitement about new stadium has evaporated today though which is sad, in a way i'd rather they just delayed it a month more so they can give a 100% definite date to start building up excitement again. This unknowing of when it'll be is a real buzzkill.
No chance I'm going to Wembley though if they don't give me the option of choosing to pay for the ticket or not, rather leave my seat empty than be forced to go to something I didn't pay for.
 

Lighty64

I believe
Aug 24, 2010
10,400
12,476
I think the underground car park is just for VIP's/staff/players etc (Maybe wrong)

From what i know of the security needed to pass through to enter, i doubt it will be open to the unwashed masses...

The surface car park maybe open sooner.

it has around 40 disabled bays, there are many that can't use public transport and need to use wheelchairs
 

bomberH

Well-Known Member
Jun 4, 2005
28,455
168,222
This has probably been mentioned several times but I hope they don’t give us credit again. If we’re at Wembley for half the season we should get half the difference of the increase refunded.

My ticket was £400 more expensive and if we’re not at the new stadium for half the season or so, we should get around £200 put straight back into my account. Obviously depending on how many games played etc.

I don’t blame anyone for this. Shit can happen. But this could’ve been better handled and they just shouldn’t have taken our money before they could be sure it would all go ahead. Difficult i know but fair. I’d be very disappointed with a credit type thing. The club need to appease a little bit, this would go a long way to help.

Doesn’t help that i fucking hate Wembley!
 

theShiznit

Well-Known Member
Jul 26, 2004
17,800
23,813
it has around 40 disabled bays, there are many that can't use public transport and need to use wheelchairs
May well be that disabled drivers are allowed in the Underground CP but it will be quite time consuming to get multiple vehicles in there.

I am sure the surface CP will have numerous disabled bays as well.
 

theShiznit

Well-Known Member
Jul 26, 2004
17,800
23,813
This has probably been mentioned several times but I hope they don’t give us credit again. If we’re at Wembley for half the season we should get half the difference of the increase refunded.

My ticket was £400 more expensive and if we’re not at the new stadium for half the season or so, we should get around £200 put straight back into my account. Obviously depending on how many games played etc.

I don’t blame anyone for this. Shit can happen. But this could’ve been better handled and they just shouldn’t have taken our money before they could be sure it would all go ahead. Difficult i know but fair. I’d be very disappointed with a credit type thing. The club need to appease a little bit, this would go a long way to help.

Doesn’t help that i fucking hate Wembley!
Maybe that's why the ST was so expensive in the first place, in the event of having to issue part refunds... (cue optimistic ratings ;) )
 

Lighty64

I believe
Aug 24, 2010
10,400
12,476
Not quite - I did have a ST at WHL but had to give it up a few years back because I couldn't afford it, only got it back at Wembley. I didn't necessarily expect the same prices - nor did I expect they'd be the most expensive anywhere! And the club justified that with the facilities at the new ground - it stands to reason ST holders shouldn't have to pay as much while there IS no new ground.

My argument has always been that the money raised by increasing the prices isn't sustainable. People were mostly willing to pay the increased prices this time - although 1,600 or so more than normal didn't and chose not to renew. But that was on the premise that we'd have a new ground, a better squad etc. Will people pay those prices if they don't get to go till December, there's been zero investment in the squad, and we're back in the Europa League? I'd be astonished. And I don't see why that's such an offensive argument to you. I've normally been a stewardship of ENIC's stewardship, but it's clear this isn't going well right now.

they set the prices higher than anyone else because the Stadium is going to be the best in the country, and back in April they never knew that it wouldn't be ready, they also never knew in April that our transfer targets, 1's that would improve the team would be impossible to sign because their prices moved considerably north of what we expected to pay, or that the selling club refused to do business. we can't force Man U to sell Martial, or Palace to sell Zaha, or Ajax to sell de Ligt. We didn't sign anyone because the targets we went for become unavailable, or prices being asked for where not what we expected to pay. other players that could of played those rolls might of not been players Poch wanted.
 

Lighty64

I believe
Aug 24, 2010
10,400
12,476
May well be that disabled drivers are allowed in the Underground CP but it will be quite time consuming to get multiple vehicles in there.

I am sure the surface CP will have numerous disabled bays as well.

I've been told that we will be able to park under there, think the bays are all near lifts to help us get to the level we need to go to

the surface? if your talking about the schools they let us use before, they only allowed 8 cars
 
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