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New Stadium Details And Discussions

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
42,338
77,592
The new stadium will open as soon as it is ready and we have the relevant safety certificates. If that's a mid week game so be it.
I disagree, I can't see the first game being midweek with no real certainty over how the travel network will operate. Why are people not mentioning Watford do you think? They've always mentioned Man Utd or Newcastle as the first game.
 

spids

Well-Known Member
Jul 19, 2015
6,647
27,841
I disagree, I can't see the first game being midweek with no real certainty over how the travel network will operate. Why are people not mentioning Watford do you think? They've always mentioned Man Utd or Newcastle as the first game.

There is zero difference between mid week and weekend. You do know the transport system is just as good on a Weds evening as a Saturday afternoon right?
 

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
42,338
77,592
There is zero difference between mid week and weekend. You do know the transport system is just as good on a Weds evening as a Saturday afternoon right?
Seriously? You do know most people work during the week? You do know that national trains only run so late in the evening? Most people will be completely new to the gangways etc around the ground, there's going to be a hell of a lot more people visiting the ground than before. People will need to decide if their previous route is the best one to take still. Will more people visit Seven Sisters? Northumberland? WHL station? There's far too much uncertainty for an evening game let alone one in the week. Not just for fans either, for transport networks to prepare for the overload of fans in that area. Not only that but it's not even ideal to arrive in the dark either.
 

dagraham

Well-Known Member
Sep 20, 2005
19,115
46,080
There is zero difference between mid week and weekend. You do know the transport system is just as good on a Weds evening as a Saturday afternoon right?

Think it’s more to do with arrival times. During mid week everyone tends to arrive at similar times and always leads to more congestion outside the ground. I could see why the club would prefer to have at least one weekend game before staging a midweek one.
 

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
42,338
77,592
By the way it's not only our fans we have to think about either. It's also the away fans who need to be prepared for a stadium they haven't even been following. They're also sitting in the opposite end of the ground now too so need to know where to go. There's a reason the familiarisation event is 11am on a Sunday.
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
46,680
104,956
taken from SSC

Originally Posted by EliteKiller
It's all procedural ... to apply to Sports Grounds Safety Authority (SGSA) is much like applying for any other government department document ... you have to complete a shed-load of forms, attach all the required approvals, hand them all in then sit on your hands and wait ....

Apparently we are ready to go anytime (once the last critical system tests are completed) indeed I think we have already filed 90% of the documents, however government departments just don't function over X-mas and New Year, that's just how it is and that won't change ...

The 7th January is when SAGA have indicated they will give a response to our application (actually I'm told it's the 5th) not the licence itself but an indication that all the paperwork is correct and that a licence will be granted subject to two successful 'live' test events, a bit like outline planning approval, once granted you can start work ... or in our case plan in future matches ...

Not sure if UEFA will wait that long as I believe we have to confirm a venue before the last 16 draw, however UEFA do allow venue changes where both sides are in agreement, so in theory we could say Wembley and then change to NWHL once a licence is issued, that's provided whoever we draw agrees ....
 

spids

Well-Known Member
Jul 19, 2015
6,647
27,841
Never been on a train in London on rush hour then

Sorry, this is rapidly becoming a pretty dumb ass conversation . How on earth do you think we have managed to get 80,000+ to and from Wembley for mid week games? Does the tube and rush hour not affect the Jubilee line? It is lucky that mid week kick-offs are not generally at 6PM and the later 8PM kickoff time means that rush hour (which is actually typically 17:00-18:30) has well subsided by then. Do you really think we need to host a 62k game at a weekend before we will know if the transport system can cope before we can play a mid week game? What will happen if this 'test' fails? We have to restrict NWHL to 36k attendances mid week? I wonder how Arsenal get 55k+ fans into the Emirates stadium mid week?

Edit: Whilst it would be more convenient to host the first game on a Saturday, Levy will not pay Wembley an extra £3M for a game we could host, so I remain convinced that the stadium will be used when it is ready, irrespective of opponents or day of the week. Imagine if NWHL was ready for the CL first leg but we decided to use Wembley instead as we were not sure about the transport system (note no worries about the stadium just the transport system).
 
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Saoirse

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2013
6,143
15,550
Sorry, this is rapidly becoming a pretty dumb ass conversation . How on earth do you think we have managed to get 80,000+ to and from Wembley for mid week games? Does the tube and rush hour not affect the Jubilee line? It is lucky that mid week kick-offs are not generally at 6PM and the later 8PM kickoff time means that rush hour (which is actually typically 17:00-18:30) has well subsided by then. Do you really think we need to host a 62k game at a weekend before we will know if the transport system can cope before we can play a mid week game? What will happen if this 'test' fails? We have to restrict NWHL to 36k attendances mid week? I wonder how Arsenal get 55k+ fans into the Emirates stadium mid week?
I don't know if you're being facetous or simply an idiot. But anyone who goes knows how much worse it is getting out of Wembley, or indeed anywhere else, after a packed midweek game when everyone is trying to leave immidiately rather than sticking round the pub for a bit or getting something to eat, whether you drive or take the train. That's exasperated at a new venue, because transport staff don't know how to handle it as well, fans haven't figured out the best station to use, and other travellers haven't learnt to check fixtures and avoid travelling at those times. As for getting there, fans tend to arrive closer to kick-off for midweek games, which worsens the issue of ST Holders trying to find their seats for the first time, and fans going through the new entry procedures or wanting to look around before the game. It's not an insummountable issue in general but it is more challenging which isn't a good combination with the difficulty of the opening game.
 

dondo

Well-Known Member
Jan 4, 2006
8,603
14,091
Sorry, this is rapidly becoming a pretty dumb ass conversation . How on earth do you think we have managed to get 80,000+ to and from Wembley for mid week games? Does the tube and rush hour not affect the Jubilee line? It is lucky that mid week kick-offs are not generally at 6PM and the later 8PM kickoff time means that rush hour (which is actually typically 17:00-18:30) has well subsided by then. Do you really think we need to host a 62k game at a weekend before we will know if the transport system can cope before we can play a mid week game? What will happen if this 'test' fails? We have to restrict NWHL to 36k attendances mid week? I wonder how Arsenal get 55k+ fans into the Emirates stadium mid week?


Obviously weeknight matches will be played I never suggested they wouldn’t. I commented on your “trains run just as well on Wednesdays as they do on Saturdays” comment.
Been to many a night match at the old WHL and i have to travel in the rush hours to get there,it’s a nightmare to get in and out of and that’s with 35000 not 60000. Wembley has a much better transport system compared to the Tottenham area.
Don’t Arsenal fans get criticised for leaving night matches early to beat the rush too.
Similar circumstances are for weekend day matches but people aren’t in such a rush to get away and generally have a day off the next day and don’t have to contend with as many workers commuting
 

spids

Well-Known Member
Jul 19, 2015
6,647
27,841
Obviously weeknight matches will be played I never suggested they wouldn’t. I commented on your “trains run just as well on Wednesdays as they do on Saturdays” comment.
Been to many a night match at the old WHL and i have to travel in the rush hours to get there,it’s a nightmare to get in and out of and that’s with 35000 not 60000. Wembley has a much better transport system compared to the Tottenham area.
Don’t Arsenal fans get criticised for leaving night matches early to beat the rush too.
Similar circumstances are for weekend day matches but people aren’t in such a rush to get away and generally have a day off the next day and don’t have to contend with as many workers commuting

This debate boils down to whether we would deliberately delay playing our first game at NWHL, and incur additional costs of £3M, if it was mid week as the rush hour might affect it. And my opinion is we will play at NWHL as soon as we get the green light irrespective of what day of the week it is.
 

Hoopspur

You have insufficient privileges to reply here!
Jun 28, 2012
6,332
9,703
Sorry, this is rapidly becoming a pretty dumb ass conversation . How on earth do you think we have managed to get 80,000+ to and from Wembley for mid week games? Does the tube and rush hour not affect the Jubilee line? It is lucky that mid week kick-offs are not generally at 6PM and the later 8PM kickoff time means that rush hour (which is actually typically 17:00-18:30) has well subsided by then. Do you really think we need to host a 62k game at a weekend before we will know if the transport system can cope before we can play a mid week game? What will happen if this 'test' fails? We have to restrict NWHL to 36k attendances mid week? I wonder how Arsenal get 55k+ fans into the Emirates stadium mid week?

Edit: Whilst it would be more convenient to host the first game on a Saturday, Levy will not pay Wembley an extra £3M for a game we could host, so I remain convinced that the stadium will be used when it is ready, irrespective of opponents or day of the week. Imagine if NWHL was ready for the CL first leg but we decided to use Wembley instead as we were not sure about the transport system (note no worries about the stadium just the transport system).
Nothing to do with your spat, but I’m pretty sure it is not £3m per game at Wembley. There were alternative and very wildly differing figures being bandied around. I believe Spurs and Wembley have agreed a much better alternative figure.
 

worcestersauce

"I'm no optimist I'm just a prisoner of hope
Jan 23, 2006
26,891
45,041
Not sure if it's relevant but on the occasion of the first game at our new stadium I am probably going to get there a few hours early just to take the time to wander around and take it all in so a matinee would be my preference.
That said, I'll take whatever's going.

Spursfan77's post looks good and fits in with the message on the OS, it is beginning to look like they have not seen but they have reached the light at the end of the tunnel and are now just dealing with the bureaucracy, I am very optimistic.
 

spids

Well-Known Member
Jul 19, 2015
6,647
27,841
I don't know if you're being facetous or simply an idiot. But anyone who goes knows how much worse it is getting out of Wembley, or indeed anywhere else, after a packed midweek game when everyone is trying to leave immidiately rather than sticking round the pub for a bit or getting something to eat, whether you drive or take the train. That's exasperated at a new venue, because transport staff don't know how to handle it as well, fans haven't figured out the best station to use, and other travellers haven't learnt to check fixtures and avoid travelling at those times. As for getting there, fans tend to arrive closer to kick-off for midweek games, which worsens the issue of ST Holders trying to find their seats for the first time, and fans going through the new entry procedures or wanting to look around before the game. It's not an insummountable issue in general but it is more challenging which isn't a good combination with the difficulty of the opening game.

I am not sure if you are deliberately moving the goal posts to suit your own agenda, but if you wish to use insults at least use words you can spell properly.

My point is simply this:

In my opinion we will play at NWHL the earliest opportunity after getting the required safety sign off irrespective of what day of the week this is. For the record, I also believe we would not delay the opening to ensure we have marquee opponents for the first match to ensure better media coverage of the opening (as some on here have stated is their belief).

I think concerns that the transport system might not be able to cope mid-week is quite frankly a load of old tosh. Yes, it may be harder for people to get from work, and yes, trains may be slightly more crowded at 7PM on a Weds than at 2PM on a Saturday. But that really is the fans problem and not Levy's, who is paying Millions of pounds for each extra game we have to play at Wembley. Our fans have coped with attendances above 80,000 for mid week games at Wembley. And Arsenal's fans cope with midweek games at the Emirates with close to 60k fans attending. And the London transport system copes just fine - Arsenal even use the same tube line as we do. If we draw Juventus at home on a Weds, and that turns out to be the first time we get the opportunity to play at NWHL (meaning the council, police and the club are happy that the ground is ready and match day staff can cope), there would be uproar if we decided to play at Wembley instead, all in my opinion of course.

To counter some of your arguments, I assume that any time a European club arrives for a mid week game they will not know where to go and that is why we invest so much in signage around the stadium. I'm sure our 6k away fans coped perfectly well at Camp Nou on Tuesday on what was the first visit there for the majority.

I would also presume that the majority of our season ticket holders will know where their seat is in NWHL and which entrance to use (as it is printed on the season ticket and the stadium maps have been poured over for months by fans desperate to get into the new stadium). The test events, two of which will be held, will also give some season ticket holders the perfect chance to get their bearings at the new stadium.
 

Saoirse

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2013
6,143
15,550
I am not sure if you are deliberately moving the goal posts to suit your own agenda, but if you wish to use insults at least use words you can spell properly.

My point is simply this:

In my opinion we will play at NWHL the earliest opportunity after getting the required safety sign off irrespective of what day of the week this is. For the record, I also believe we would not delay the opening to ensure we have marquee opponents for the first match to ensure better media coverage of the opening (as some on here have stated is their belief).

I think concerns that the transport system might not be able to cope mid-week is quite frankly a load of old tosh. Yes, it may be harder for people to get from work, and yes, trains may be slightly more crowded at 7PM on a Weds than at 2PM on a Saturday. But that really is the fans problem and not Levy's, who is paying Millions of pounds for each extra game we have to play at Wembley. Our fans have coped with attendances above 80,000 for mid week games at Wembley. And Arsenal's fans cope with midweek games at the Emirates with close to 60k fans attending. And the London transport system copes just fine - Arsenal even use the same tube line as we do. If we draw Juventus at home on a Weds, and that turns out to be the first time we get the opportunity to play at NWHL (meaning the council, police and the club are happy that the ground is ready and match day staff can cope), there would be uproar if we decided to play at Wembley instead, all in my opinion of course.

To counter some of your arguments, I assume that any time a European club arrives for a mid week game they will not know where to go and that is why we invest so much in signage around the stadium. I'm sure our 6k away fans coped perfectly well at Camp Nou on Tuesday on what was the first visit there for the majority.

I would also presume that the majority of our season ticket holders will know where their seat is in NWHL and which entrance to use (as it is printed on the season ticket and the stadium maps have been poured over for months by fans desperate to get into the new stadium). The test events, two of which will be held, will also give some season ticket holders the perfect chance to get their bearings at the new stadium.

Actually, our 6k away fans did not cope very well at the Camp Nou. Many turned up only to be routed the entire way around the stadium, ended up in areas they shouldn't have been drawing aggrivation from Spanish police, and found themselves walking back to their hotels in a foreign city because the transport arrangements weren't clear. If we're going to try and replicate good practice the Spanish are perhaps the worst example to use. And in any case, the main problem with midweeks is fans coming straight from work at similar times, leading to increased congestion - this doesn't apply to European aways when fans have obviously stayed over rather than leaving the office at 5pm and hopping the first Easyjet.

Ultimately it isn't our decision when to open the ground. As you say it needs approval from the council, the safety advisory group, transport authorities etc, and I can very much see them angling for a weekend fixture. Nobody is saying we can't cope with midweek games, just that opening with one may not be ideal or approved at all. It does make things harder - you say fans will know where their seats are. But for instance while I could tell you basically where mine is, I don't have the faintest idea which entrance I'm using, and even if I didn't that doesn't help me get a feeling for where it is in relation to where I'm coming from. I don't know my way around the stadium once inside. I don't know once I get there whether I'm turning left or right from the gangway. When you multiply that by 60k people (compared to only a small number normally who aren't regulars), it's a challenge, and more importantly it's time consuming. If you don't have much time as nobody is getting there early, it could be a problem, and either the club or one of the relevent authorities may decide that's not a risk worth taking.
 

spids

Well-Known Member
Jul 19, 2015
6,647
27,841
Actually, our 6k away fans did not cope very well at the Camp Nou. Many turned up only to be routed the entire way around the stadium, ended up in areas they shouldn't have been drawing aggrivation from Spanish police, and found themselves walking back to their hotels in a foreign city because the transport arrangements weren't clear. If we're going to try and replicate good practice the Spanish are perhaps the worst example to use. And in any case, the main problem with midweeks is fans coming straight from work at similar times, leading to increased congestion - this doesn't apply to European aways when fans have obviously stayed over rather than leaving the office at 5pm and hopping the first Easyjet.

Ultimately it isn't our decision when to open the ground. As you say it needs approval from the council, the safety advisory group, transport authorities etc, and I can very much see them angling for a weekend fixture. Nobody is saying we can't cope with midweek games, just that opening with one may not be ideal or approved at all. It does make things harder - you say fans will know where their seats are. But for instance while I could tell you basically where mine is, I don't have the faintest idea which entrance I'm using, and even if I didn't that doesn't help me get a feeling for where it is in relation to where I'm coming from. I don't know my way around the stadium once inside. I don't know once I get there whether I'm turning left or right from the gangway. When you multiply that by 60k people (compared to only a small number normally who aren't regulars), it's a challenge, and more importantly it's time consuming. If you don't have much time as nobody is getting there early, it could be a problem, and either the club or one of the relevent authorities may decide that's not a risk worth taking.

You’re kind of proving my point. Camp Nou didn’t open for the first time this week did it - it’s been open for years. How easily away fans find their seats is not really a major concern when deciding whether to open a stadium on a Weds or a Sat.
 
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