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New Stadium Details And Discussions

hugrr

Gimme some gravey
Aug 17, 2008
11,465
15,136
I'd be incredibly surprised if they had to "pull the whole system out" and start again.

For that to be the case, then (1) all the fire cabling is faulty (2) all the heat/smoke detector heads are faulty (3) all the break-glass panels are faulty (4) all the relay-switches and fire panels across the site are faulty, (5) the main fire control system is faulty, etc, etc.

Literally, everything they've put in.

If it's something to do with software installation, then that's a pain, but it wouldn't take 12 months even if you had to replace fire panels/hardware, etc. Especially since there'll be a team of guys working on it; it's not going to be one old-boy, plodding around the site for 12 months!

Anyway, I could be wrong, but like I said it will be interesting to see what the problem is.

PS If there is anyone on here who is an actual fire safety installation engineer, then I'd love to hear your views on this.
I work in Fire alarm servicing, but have fixed many fuck ups & work on some hefty systems. From what has been said, there are fuck ups with all aspects of the system

1) The electricians were not properly paid, so they sabotaged the cabling - This came out a few months back, not sure how true this is, but if so, that should hopefully be repaired by now.

2) The installers have fitted approx 30% more devices than what was planned - Most fire alarm panels loops have a maximum amount of devices you can have on a loop, I'm not sure what it is with the Tyco system, but if they've gone over that amount, then they'll need to split the loops. If the panel doesn't have enough loops, then they need to install more panels.
There's also the amount of current the additional devices on the loop use when in alarm to take into consideration, again if there's too much load on the loop, they'll need to split it.

3) The panels not able to handle it all & is failing - Any of the issues above could be causing this, however I've had previous experience of a bespoke Tyco panel having a mare & had to be replaced with a different system, thankfully in that case they'd fitted Apollo detectors which are compatible with other manufacturers panels. This does not appear to be the case at the stadium, where it appears they've used Minerva kit, which only work with Minerva protocol panels. Tyco should have been instructed to install open protocol equipment as part of the job, which would have left Spurs options open if the panel failed.
Also being that it's a bespoke panel, they can't just grab one off the shelf, though I'm assuming with the time this has taken, they've likely tried replacing it at least once.

So, they can either persevere & try & get what's there working, or rip out all the devices & panels & start again. If they can get away with a radio system temporarily then they could open sooner while the proper system is installed, though that would be down to LFB to agree to.
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
46,680
104,957
I work in Fire alarm servicing, but have fixed many fuck ups & work on some hefty systems. From what has been said, there are fuck ups with all aspects of the system

1) The electricians were not properly paid, so they sabotaged the cabling - This came out a few months back, not sure how true this is, but if so, that should hopefully be repaired by now.

2) The installers have fitted approx 30% more devices than what was planned - Most fire alarm panels loops have a maximum amount of devices you can have on a loop, I'm not sure what it is with the Tyco system, but if they've gone over that amount, then they'll need to split the loops. If the panel doesn't have enough loops, then they need to install more panels.
There's also the amount of current the additional devices on the loop use when in alarm to take into consideration, again if there's too much load on the loop, they'll need to split it.

3) The panels not able to handle it all & is failing - Any of the issues above could be causing this, however I've had previous experience of a bespoke Tyco panel having a mare & had to be replaced with a different system, thankfully in that case they'd fitted Apollo detectors which are compatible with other manufacturers panels. This does not appear to be the case at the stadium, where it appears they've used Minerva kit, which only work with Minerva protocol panels. Tyco should have been instructed to install open protocol equipment as part of the job, which would have left Spurs options open if the panel failed.
Also being that it's a bespoke panel, they can't just grab one off the shelf, though I'm assuming with the time this has taken, they've likely tried replacing it at least once.

So, they can either persevere & try & get what's there working, or rip out all the devices & panels & start again. If they can get away with a radio system temporarily then they could open sooner while the proper system is installed, though that would be down to LFB to agree to.

Thanks for posting, that really informative. You're third point sounds like a major screw up if thats what has happened but one that is probably common?

In the first place, when the system was being designed, why not just replicate what has been done for fire safety systems at other recently built stadiums. Surely thats the most obvious and successful route to go down.
 

SlotBadger

({})?
Jul 24, 2013
13,751
43,099
Either post it or don't FFS. One of my pet peeves this sort of shit.
One of the many reasons I sacked off Facebook years ago; people I like in the physical world slowly turning me against them with their nonspecific, needy status updates. Common example:

OP Status: "I can't believe you would do that to me!"
Response 1: "What's happened, hun? Are you okay?"
OP Reply: "I'll PM you - it's private"

So private, in fact, that it's the second time this week you've said something similar to your 1,200 friends; 900 of which you've never met but still accepted or added in order for your shit**** updates to reach a wider audience. ANYONE FOR A PITY PARTY!?

[/Miserable Digression]
 

'O Zio

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2014
7,405
13,785
One of the many reasons I sacked off Facebook years ago; people I like in the physical world slowly turning me against them with their nonspecific, needy status updates. Common example:

OP Status: "I can't believe you would do that to me!"
Response 1: "What's happened, hun? Are you okay?"
OP Reply: "I'll PM you - it's private"

So private, in fact, that it's the second time this week you've said something similar to your 1,200 friends; 900 of which you've never met but still accepted or added in order for your shit**** updates to reach a wider audience. ANYONE FOR A PITY PARTY!?

[/Miserable Digression]

Agree. One of the 573 reasons I also quit facebook several years ago. Haven't missed it once,
 

Tucker

Shitehawk
Jul 15, 2013
31,131
146,026
One of the many reasons I sacked off Facebook years ago; people I like in the physical world slowly turning me against them with their nonspecific, needy status updates. Common example:

OP Status: "I can't believe you would do that to me!"
Response 1: "What's happened, hun? Are you okay?"
OP Reply: "I'll PM you - it's private"

So private, in fact, that it's the second time this week you've said something similar to your 1,200 friends; 900 of which you've never met but still accepted or added in order for your shit**** updates to reach a wider audience. ANYONE FOR A PITY PARTY!?

[/Miserable Digression]

Lol so true. I have multiple people on my time line that do exactly that. And they aren’t being ironic either.
 

JohanTheYid

Well-Known Member
Sep 21, 2004
1,014
1,432
I work in Fire alarm servicing, but have fixed many fuck ups & work on some hefty systems. From what has been said, there are fuck ups with all aspects of the system

1) The electricians were not properly paid, so they sabotaged the cabling - This came out a few months back, not sure how true this is, but if so, that should hopefully be repaired by now.

2) The installers have fitted approx 30% more devices than what was planned - Most fire alarm panels loops have a maximum amount of devices you can have on a loop, I'm not sure what it is with the Tyco system, but if they've gone over that amount, then they'll need to split the loops. If the panel doesn't have enough loops, then they need to install more panels.
There's also the amount of current the additional devices on the loop use when in alarm to take into consideration, again if there's too much load on the loop, they'll need to split it.

3) The panels not able to handle it all & is failing - Any of the issues above could be causing this, however I've had previous experience of a bespoke Tyco panel having a mare & had to be replaced with a different system, thankfully in that case they'd fitted Apollo detectors which are compatible with other manufacturers panels. This does not appear to be the case at the stadium, where it appears they've used Minerva kit, which only work with Minerva protocol panels. Tyco should have been instructed to install open protocol equipment as part of the job, which would have left Spurs options open if the panel failed.
Also being that it's a bespoke panel, they can't just grab one off the shelf, though I'm assuming with the time this has taken, they've likely tried replacing it at least once.

So, they can either persevere & try & get what's there working, or rip out all the devices & panels & start again. If they can get away with a radio system temporarily then they could open sooner while the proper system is installed, though that would be down to LFB to agree to.

I presume at this point we will be in discussion with the LFB about what Plan B is & what we could to to satisfy them to allow us to open sooner but safely - you would hope so anyway !!
 

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
42,344
77,596
If things were really this bad the club would have announced the rest of the season at Wembley. You get someone saying they dont think it wil be ready until October. I mean if they're even close to being right the club would not leave the rest of the season in the air. They dont exactly want to keep making more announcements of games being played at Wembley. It only looks bad on the club everytime they do it. If it were true the club would have made an announcement and put some spin on it. Something along the lines of "we feel it's unfair to keep the fans in the dark over the stadium so have made the difficult decision to open the new stadium next season".
 

marion52

Well-Known Member
Dec 10, 2006
1,584
2,200
On skyscraper city for anyone who goes no here’re someone had a good explanation of what’s happened and what they are doing to rectify. I won’t copy it over here as not sure I should but it’s certainly a bit more positive than most things I’ve read. He posts by the name of Norkshire for anyone who wants to pop over and read it.
 

yankspurs

Enic Out
Aug 22, 2013
41,883
71,188
On skyscraper city for anyone who goes no here’re someone had a good explanation of what’s happened and what they are doing to rectify. I won’t copy it over here as not sure I should but it’s certainly a bit more positive than most things I’ve read. He posts by the name of Norkshire for anyone who wants to pop over and read it.
Just link it or copy and paste it, mate
 

worcestersauce

"I'm no optimist I'm just a prisoner of hope
Jan 23, 2006
26,894
45,042
On skyscraper city for anyone who goes no here’re someone had a good explanation of what’s happened and what they are doing to rectify. I won’t copy it over here as not sure I should but it’s certainly a bit more positive than most things I’ve read. He posts by the name of Norkshire for anyone who wants to pop over and read it.
Shit ..Yippeee!
 

Blockbuster

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2007
2,765
1,568
Just link it or copy and paste it, mate

Originally Posted by norskire

There are many reasons to worry - just not ones that include "re-writing software in panels" (can't re-write something that never existed), "replacing all panels" (I seem to have seen quite a bit of electricity in use in the gaff these last few months), or any of the other stuff that sounds all technical and ITK but doesn't mean doodleysquat and which you keep re-posting here, especially from one particular twitterer. Whatever else may be wrong and irresponsible with such silly repetition of absolute codswallop, it also triggers all the nervous nellies, "Indignant from Tunbridge Wells", Daily Hate-Mailers, and other members of the green-ink brigade into activity (see below) which, I suspect, may even be the real motive behind it all anyway:



As far as I could glean from talking to building control people, the issue now is that the contractor and club have decided not to pursue the original certification path that had formed the basis of the original schedule for completion of Phase Two. Because of the time taken to check and re-certify both the integrated safety control system and its underlying electrical network all parties have now decided in the interests of speed and economy to incorporate the safety certification into the sign-off certification process, and at the moment this is being negotiated. Using this approach both Haringey and the club require the principal contractor basically to produce all the certification for each outstanding installation in one package (big implications for liability there which both Mace and the club had shied away from in their original roll-out strategy). This needs to be done in a manner and over a period in which the test events and other items of scrutiny for which Haringey building control are responsible can be undertaken as part of the sign-off process (the "Phase Two" sign-off now being a major part of the occupancy permit, which it wasn't before). The implications of this new delivery strategy are obvious, I would have thought, and explain very much the tone and content of the club's recent updates.

If I really wanted to adopt flashspur's discombobulated jitters and indignant angst-venting when thinking about how and when this construction project will pan out, I would probably concentrate less on what so far has been quite a usual complication that exists in delivery of big builds, and instead think ahead with no small amount of nervy dread to what happens in just a few weeks time with regard to NDP's viability in the face of Britain crashing out of EU customs agreements, labour mobility agreements, and all the other international trade facilities provided through EU membership and which this construction has utilised to the full - a construction that is now about to enter a final building phase on which the whole economic viability of the project was ultimately dependent.

No software or panels were harmed in the making of this stadium ... just the feelings of some rather entitled and ill-informed opinion-junkies.


https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=155845652#post155845652

#YoureWelcome
 

Lilbaz

Just call me Baz
Apr 1, 2005
41,363
74,893
Anyone would think Carrillion were involved with the stadium the way it's constantly delayed, and costs rising by the day. Should've got John Laing to build it as they did the now Etihad stadium. Nothing wrong with that!

John laing lasalles? Used to work with them in curzon street thought they were just glorified estate agents.
 
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