No surprise that 3 5 2 can work for us

[stevenqoz]

Carrying on from where we finished the spammers game
3 5 2. Bale and Chimbonda(if we can get Ledley back) are naturals for this formation. Of course we will not play it against everyone but it can work if you have the personell who can get up and back. It also gives an extra player in the centre of midfield. It looks like Mr Ramos may even open a few tactically closed eyes on this site as he is actually to change formation during the match. Not such a difficult concept especially for professionals who train almost every day. Poyet doesn't even seem to have a pen or a pad, either.

 

[brasil_spur]

I think you're right, especially in games at home and against easier competition.

IMO until we have either King, Gardner or Rocha back we should keep with this formation.

 

[rez9000]

The problem with 3-5-2, I believe though, is that it's an attacking formation that can be undone with pace and quick passing. Although the midfield tends to be a lot stronger than in a 4-4-2, if the midfield battle is lost, it leaves the defence wide open for crosses into the box.

No doubt it worked for us against the Spammers and Aalborg last night, but against the pace of say, Ronaldo or Rooney, I think we'd have problems.

 

[Chaplain]

If need be, it can be a 5-3-2, with the wing-backs pushing up to make it a 3-5-2, and, at its most attacking, 3-4-3

 

[brasil_spur]

you're right rez9000, against the likes of Man U etc... this formation may not work as well, although if Zokora can play like he did in the 2nd half last night then perhaps it can

 

[Stoof]

Wasn't it more a of a 3-1-3-1-2?

The bold and underlined 1 being Zokora playing two steps in front of Dawson?

 

[SpurSince57]

It's been a gamble that's paid off. If it hadn't been for a couple of top-drawer saves from Robbo and JJ's header off the line we'd have been stuffed on Sunday, and getting back on level terms so quickly after the break last night meant we had most of the play and limited Aalborg's breaks. It's really been a case of fortune favouring the brave, and making a virtue out of necessity.

I can't think of a single top-flight side that plays 3-5-2 by choice. There's a good reason for that.

 

[tony0379]

3-5-2 is the way forward we looked really tasty when switched to it last night

 

[HildoSpur]

Its refreshing to see Ramos trying out new things, obviously his hands are tied somewhat with the injuries we have but it shows that he is not afraid to experiment with formations and to change things quickly when things are going wrong.

 

[yanno]

I'm a bit mystified by all this talk of 3-5-2 last night. Can some kind soul please tell me who our back three were last night? Thanking you in advance...

 

[Stoof]

I'm a bit mystified by all this talk of 3-5-2 last night. Can some kind soul please tell me who our back three were last night? Thanking you in advance...

Chimbonda, Dawson, Zokora and Bale.

See, yanno, a back 3. :up:

:wink:

 

[yanno]

Chimbonda, Dawson, Zokora and Bale.

See, yanno, a back 3. :up:

:wink:

You know, that's exactly what I saw last night as well. I s'pose we'd best go back to primary school and learn to count. :wink:

At the Spammers, 2nd half, we played a proper 3-5-2: Zoko spare between Chimbo and Daws; Lennon & Bale as WBs; Steed & JJ CM; Berba in the hole; Keano & Bent up front.

2nd half last night was far closer to the 3-1-3-1-2 Stoof posted above, with Dawson marking their striker and Zokora mopping up and revelling in the Attacking CB role, for which he seems ideally suited, but which is unfortunately near unique in world football...

 

[chrissivad]

we did chage back to a 442 towards the end, and we did play with a back 3 during the second half. It was just a rolling formation with Zokora dropping back to fill in the gaps, and it worked realy well.

 

[yanno]

we did chage back to a 442 towards the end, and we did play with a back 3 during the second half. It was just a rolling formation with Zokora dropping back to fill in the gaps, and it worked realy well.

OK - please name your back three when you believe 3-5-2 was our formation.

 

[chrissivad]

OK - please name your back three when you believe 3-5-2 was our formation.

Chimbonda Dawson Bale

Dawson was the only one of the 3 that would play as a CB though. Both Bale and Chimbonda would push up if they had the chance, and when this happeded Zokora (who was sitting just infront of the defence) would then fill in to ether Chimbonda's or Bale's possition.
​

 

[SpurSince57]

It was, if anything, a modified diamond with Zokora sitting in front of the back 3 and behind the Hudd.

 

[yanno]

Chimbonda Dawson Bale

Dawson was the only one of the 3 that would play as a CB though. Both Bale and Chimbonda would push up if they had the chance, and when this happeded Zokora (who was sitting just infront of the defence) would then fill in to ether Chimbonda's or Bale's possition.
​

Fair enough. That's a perfectly legitimate interpretation of how we played in the second half. But the reason why I wanted to tease that out is that it begs another set of questions.

A classic 3-5-2 has two marking CBs with a spare CB, two wing backs, two CMs, two strikers and a player in the hole - exactly as per 2nd half v Spammers.

The 3-5-2 your perfectly reasonably suggest for last night has our two natural wing backs, Chimbo & Bale, playing as FBs or auxiliary CBs. I find it really hard to believe that we would ever go into an EPL game with one orthodox CB - Dawson - flanked by two FBs.

Although I don't think Ramos will play 3-5-2 much, the advantages are that Chimbo and Bale are natural wing backs, and Zoko seems strong as a spare CB. So, if were to play it as a short-term fix, I suspect we'd play Dawson plus ANother proper CB, with Zoko (or the Hud) as spare CB, and Chimbo and Bale as WBs.

I accept our second half formation last night was fairly fluid but, for what it's worth, I thought we kept two players down each flank (Chimbo-Lennon, Bale-Steed), Dawson as marking CB, Zoko as spare CB with a brief to step up into DM, Hud CM, Berba and Keane both farting around in the hole, with Bent playing on the shoulder of their last defender.

Chrissivad - I'm not meaning to be a pedant here, and thanks for posting your views, which I respect. Rather I'm trying to draw out that what Ramos did 2nd half against the Spammers, and 2nd half against the Danes, were actually subtly different things. And I think Juande is to be congratulated for that!

 

[chrissivad]

Fair enough. That's a perfectly legitimate interpretation of how we played in the second half. But the reason why I wanted to tease that out is that it begs another set of questions.

A classic 3-5-2 has two marking CBs with a spare CB, two wing backs, two CMs, two strikers and a player in the hole - exactly as per 2nd half v Spammers.

The 3-5-2 your perfectly reasonably suggest for last night has our two natural wing backs, Chimbo & Bale, playing as FBs or auxiliary CBs. I find it really hard to believe that we would ever go into an EPL game with one orthodox CB - Dawson - flanked by two FBs.

Hasn't Chimbonda played quiet a bit at CB over the years? I dont mind Chimbonda playing in a back 3, but i wouldn't want Bale to play there.

The problem we have just now is that we cant always feild 2 CB's so we will have to pull players out of possition to cover.

 

[yanno]

Hasn't Chimbonda played quiet a bit at CB over the years? I dont mind Chimbonda playing in a back 3, but i wouldn't want Bale to play there.

The problem we have just now is that we cant always feild 2 CB's so we will have to pull players out of possition to cover.

But for my money, Chimbo and Bale both stayed fairly wide last night, closer to a FB than a CB position. This was important offensively, as it meant we could overload with Chimbo overlapping Lennon on the right, and Bale plus Steed on the left.

The situation at the Spammers was very different. Rather embarrassingly, Carlton Cole was bossing Kaboul. So, Juande hauled off Kaboul, moved Chimbo inside to mark Cole (quite bizarre imo, Dawson should have marked Cole with Chimbo taking Boa Morte), and played Zokora as spare CB to provide defensive protection for when Cole won the flick-ons. This meant we only played one player on each flank - Lennon at RWB and Bale at LWB. Steed had clearly moved in from LM to CM, alongside JJ.

To labour the point, a classic 3-5-2 utilizes wingbacks. Second half last night, I think we kept two players down both flanks, and Chimbo, in particular, was frequently ahead of Lennon.

 

[chrissivad]

i still think only 1 stayed wide at any given point, but i do agree with the rest of what you are saying