LexingtonSpurs
Well-Known Member
- Aug 27, 2013
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I don't miss it at all.
Paul Mitchell and recruitment in the future.
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Charly***
no idea
- Aug 20, 2008
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Identifying good strikers isn't the problem, fans can pick the best strikers in the game so obviously all the clubs can as well. The problem is the best striker's go to the richest clubs. This even applies to up-and-coming talents these days like the Brazilian kid City have just signed, so we have to take a punt which means we're not buying the finished article, we are signing young players that required development. This isn't ideal but it's what we can do.The only other way we could do it would be to sign an older top striker on the way down but again they'd likely be on huge wages.
eddiev14
SC Supporter
- Jan 18, 2005
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True, but the way I look at it is these players have three stages:
1. Talented and attainable, playing for an average team and doing well but a bit raw
2. Move to a better team, establish themselves in a good league
3. Move to a top team
We should be signing them at step 1 and I think we're trying to buy them at Step 2.
Michy Batshauyi is a classic example of that.
We were interested in him the summer he went to Marseille but it seems that somewhere along the line the player identification system in place didn't have the courage in its convictions or, more likely, was busy chasing a player in Step 2 (who probably ended up at City, United or Chelsea).
To me that suggests a problem somewhere in the chain.
(With Suarez we know that problem was Mr. T. Sherwood!).
Charly***
no idea
- Aug 20, 2008
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Yeah that's true but I think that's what we try to do. In fact what you have described is what we've done with Janssen. And that's causing all kinds of criticism.
Possibly our choices haven't been great in this respect but only time will tell but that also applies to Batsuayi who hasn't proven anything either yet. I do agree he looks a better bet than Janssen does so far but that doesn't mean long-term that's going to be the case. It's always a gamble. Even signing Lacazette would be a gamble. There is an argument that he would be less of a gamble than Janssen as he is currently a better player. But the huge fee and huge wages give a counter argument that it's more of a gamble.
I think the game has changed from the days we picked up Berbatov. And when Liverpool signed Suarez. Both signings we made largely unchallenged I don't think that would be the case these days.
eddiev14
SC Supporter
- Jan 18, 2005
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Regarding Janssen, I agree. I think he'll turn out to be a dud but his stature is about right for the wages we offer. I'd question the fee and also why the scouts were so confident in him after only 6-7 months of goalscoring in the Eredivisie, but that's being picky as both arguments could be swung either way.
He also might come good, who knows.
However it's clear that we still waste time shopping in places we can't afford and - van der Vaart aside - it's never got us anywhere in recent times.
On final thing, I'd be fascinated to see which players were on the list after Batshuayi and Janssen. Would be very interesting to see our striker shortlist from the last 5-10 windows too.
Wheeler Dealer
Well-Known Member
- Jul 29, 2011
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It was fucking tongue in cheek comment FFS
Shadydan
Well-Known Member
- Jul 7, 2012
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Well we know we were after Ings, Martial, Werner, Berahino for a start.
danielneeds
Kick-Ass
- May 5, 2004
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I think Martial and Werner were on the list for the pacey wide forward option, which we filled with Son.
Shadydan
Well-Known Member
- Jul 7, 2012
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They tend to be players who command a high premium, that's why we struggle to get them because their wage exceeds our budget.
eddiev14
SC Supporter
- Jan 18, 2005
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True but if you've got a good scouting network in place that is geared towards a certain model of player acquisition (buying less expensive, but less proven/more raw talent) then we should be able to find a few in 5 years.
As mentioned, Janssen might be that guy and in terms of that particular deal it felt like what we should have been doing all along (i.e. buying someone talented but quite raw). It's just weird that it took us so long to actually do that sort of deal, and I suspect it's because Levy thought he could be clever and kept failing to get more unobtainable targets. The hole in our squad in attack has been an ongoing joke (even with us fans) for a long time.
eddiev14
SC Supporter
- Jan 18, 2005
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With each of those there's a story of why we missed out (barring Werner, I'm sure there was ITK that we didn't think he was good enough), so maybe it's not the scouting system itself then.
Maybe it's just how Levy trusts and uses the scouting, and maybe that's why they're all buggering off!
In any case, if we do indeed target this talent then there's a reason why we aren't signing them and it's normally because we end up prioritising them as a target maybe 1-2 years after we should have done.
For example, Ings because we waited a year to get him on a free and then we were essentially competing on wages. Martial because we didn't have the courage to spend £20m on him in summer 2014, so waited another year by which point he'd attracted richer clubs and moved up beyond the level we could afford.
Shadydan
Well-Known Member
- Jul 7, 2012
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We have a good scouting network in place, I just think it's very difficult to buy a ready made goalscorer who's equipped for the Premiership, those that are are normally snapped up by the clubs with more wedge, that's not our fault really. Apart from Benteke who is a rare breed who could we have realistically aimed for which fits our budgets and our squad composition?
eddiev14
SC Supporter
- Jan 18, 2005
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I don't disagree with you that we can't afford a bonafide top class player who is proven enough to come in and rip it up straight away, but I'm not arguing that.
I'm saying we could have signed someone raw, cheaper, less proven but talented when we had Adebayor, Soldado and Kane on the basis that the player wouldn't have to come in and smash it straight away because we had options in the squad to allow us to develop him (BUT, crucially, knowing that Ade would be off soon and the question mark over Soldado might not go away).
Instead though we stood there with our dick in our hand for three years chasing players we were never going to sign and when we finally do make that sort of young, unproven signing, we have only 1 striker in the squad.
So instead of allowing the kid (Janssen) time to develop, he is thrown in at the deep end and being absolutely slaughtered left, right and centre for not being a top class Premier League talent from the off.
Hopefully that makes my point a little clearer.
Charly***
no idea
- Aug 20, 2008
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You're spot on there. Luckily our coaching staff recognise this and Poch has come out a few times making the point that Janssen is a young player in a new league and that it will take time. He came out after the last game and said Janssen shouldn't be disheartened. So he's in good hands.
Its sections of our fan base that are the problem. Not those offering constructive criticism, but the "he's shit" et cetera. One clown in the Janssen thread after little over a couple of months into the season was saying how he expected goals and that serious questions needed to be asked about the signing. It was cringe inducing reading. It's these new breed of fans with an unrealistic sense of entitlement that really don't have a sense of perspective.
Every club has these, the goons more than most and that's quite amusing but less so when it's our fans writing about our players.
Some of the pundits are no better.
This site is generally quite good and you get balance views, but so much is written about the game these days, and a lot of it comes from people that don't really understand what they're seeing when they watch a game of football.
-Afri-Coy-
Well-Known Member
- Jun 26, 2012
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I think we are slowly finding a balance between two profiles:
The old profile which is proven talent that we are competing with financially powerful clubs like Chelscum, City, Man Utd and Liverpool and the Gooners to a lesser extent. And that's just in our own league.
The new profile which is raw, younger talent that may or may not pan out but we are more capable of attaining these players as some of them tend to slip under the bigger radars.
Both have their pro's and con's, and unless you as a fan have a rudimentary of how our club works both on and off the pitch you will experience some impatience and frustration. The instant gratification mentality will never work for you as a Spurs Fan. As with Janssen, some of the SC members who understand our club are willing to be patient to see if he works out or not, but the instant gratification members have already written him off.
That's not too say it's not justified, you're entitled to your opinion.
We all want to see our club excel and move further up the ladder and to see our new additions thrive right off the bat but take the time to understand what goes on behind the scenes and these pains become more bearable.
The old profile which is proven talent that we are competing with financially powerful clubs like Chelscum, City, Man Utd and Liverpool and the Gooners to a lesser extent. And that's just in our own league.
The new profile which is raw, younger talent that may or may not pan out but we are more capable of attaining these players as some of them tend to slip under the bigger radars.
Both have their pro's and con's, and unless you as a fan have a rudimentary of how our club works both on and off the pitch you will experience some impatience and frustration. The instant gratification mentality will never work for you as a Spurs Fan. As with Janssen, some of the SC members who understand our club are willing to be patient to see if he works out or not, but the instant gratification members have already written him off.
That's not too say it's not justified, you're entitled to your opinion.
We all want to see our club excel and move further up the ladder and to see our new additions thrive right off the bat but take the time to understand what goes on behind the scenes and these pains become more bearable.
Premiership tested is the key word.
Actually two words.
Lamela Soldado Janssen all needed time to settle.
Of the 'magnificent 7' none of whom had Prem. experience
only Eriksen and Lamela came good.
and Christian's in a football world of his own
The rest have came and went.
Wanyama, Toby recent successes had exactly that.
The lust for exotic foreign stars is misplaced.
Actually two words.
Lamela Soldado Janssen all needed time to settle.
Of the 'magnificent 7' none of whom had Prem. experience
only Eriksen and Lamela came good.
and Christian's in a football world of his own
The rest have came and went.
Wanyama, Toby recent successes had exactly that.
The lust for exotic foreign stars is misplaced.
Sweech
Ruh Roh Ressegnon
- Jun 27, 2013
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There's a tough middle ground for us targeting PL proven for us though.
A) It's expensive most times and some clubs may just flat out refuse to sell to us and prefer a player that wants to leave to go abroad (basically how we operate)
B) They have to be good enough for us while not attracting the interest of Chelsea, City, United, Arsenal who will simply win the player in question because they can pay nearly double in wages than we can. This is the key one and it's hard to find players in this bracket.
A) It's less expensive to pay a premium
for players who have experience of the Premiership ,
and incidentally of the culture and conditions in UK
than buy players who fail to settle
or take a season or more to do so.
Not sure if that is how we operate.
There are a lot of players in the prem
that are ex Spurs.
Chadli from yesterday for a start,
Hull are teeming with them. (Sorry)
B) I get your drift and agree about the tough middle ground.
But Wanyama, Toby, Sissoko, et al show that it can be done
with the different offer that we currently make and better scouting.
I'm still dreaming/deluding myself of an all Academy young team.
punkisback
Well-Known Member
- Apr 10, 2004
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Personally I think our scouting system outside of England is piss poor. For example we were crying out for a technical AM who could dribble and pass and therefore went for Isco who didn't want to come to us; but we waited until the last day of the window to sign someone with a completely different skill set in Sissoko. You cannot tell me that there weren't players available who had that skill set for £30 mil and instead went for a guy who we've seen play in the PL and realised he wasn't of the required standard to take us to the next level. Our scouting network should be extensive, have reach in foreign countries and have links to various clubs. Instead it seems like whoever does it just sits their watching match of the day.
There's a pretty clear formula that's worked for us in the post-Redknapp era. Players who either have multiple seasons of experience in a top 5 league (preferably at a well respected club) or who have also played extensive European cup football, plus have broken through to their national teams. Two of these three elements were fulfilled by the following signings: Eriksen, Lloris, Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Dembele, Wanyama, Chadli, Son, Sissoko. Players like Njie, Janssen, Nkoudou all more or less had one season of top flight football, so you can see there was heightened risk in signing them in comparison to the former group. I think if we target players who fit that first set of criteria, and mix in a few super young talents who show huge potential (Lamela, Dele fall into this category, where they were tipped for the top at a very young age), then you have the right strategy.
I think if you look at the three best clubs in Europe at transfers the last three seasons (Monaco, Juventus, Sevilla) , you'll see that mix of experience and young players with superstar upside is the route they've taken, without spending huge sums of transfer fees, either. Bringing in Monchi from Sevilla or Paratici from Juventus (we've been linked in the last year or two) would be great for us as we enter a new phase of our project.
I think if you look at the three best clubs in Europe at transfers the last three seasons (Monaco, Juventus, Sevilla) , you'll see that mix of experience and young players with superstar upside is the route they've taken, without spending huge sums of transfer fees, either. Bringing in Monchi from Sevilla or Paratici from Juventus (we've been linked in the last year or two) would be great for us as we enter a new phase of our project.
